This may be the start

[WannaFly]

On a flight to and from Maryland last week, I was in charge of the radio. Talking to the tower, changing frequencies, and making requests for different altitudes due to weather. I even had the controls for a bit. I have talked with my boss on several occasions about flight training and he has been very encouraging. Money is an issue at the moment so official training in on hold. We travel quite a bit in his Mooney but the need to be in more places is starting to grow. On the trip back, he made an offer to start helping me toward my PPL. There is a company at the airport where his plane is hangered that has charter planes and a flight school. A couple of their charter pilots are also flight instructors. He offered to start chartering some flights so I can start logging dual time. I am very excited. The flights may only be a couple of times a month but it is a start.

 

[AdamZ]

Go for it sounds like it could be a good deal!

 

[Shipoke]

Well Mike if he's willing to pay for the plane DEFINATELY GO FOR IT .
Dave G.

 

[etsisk]

Dang, y'all got any openings at your business?? I'd love some advance training!

Great situation for ya! I'm excited for you and the journey you're starting - it's great to have a mentor, as well.

 

[WannaFly]

So I guess I need something to start logging my time. Do I need a log book or is there a form in Excel I can put together and print out pages as I need them? I guess I am not sure where to start with documentation. What information is required? I guess I need to do a little homework. lol
I wish I could start tomorrow. Patience is not a word in my vocabulary.

 

[ajalali]

That's awesome bro, sounds like a great way to get into it.

About the logbook thing... you definitely need to get an actual logbook, since the only person that can actually enter in "dual received" time is a CFI, and they actually have to sign the entry. But I would DEFINITELY enter your time into an excel spreadsheet -- better yet, make photocopies often.

good luck man, that sounds filthy. Keep us updated for sure.

 

[etsisk]

while you can't log stick time if you don't have a CFI with you, you can enter it into a dbase and have the info handy (um, though for what, I'm not sure). But once you're flying with CFIs, all of that time is loggable! (assuming the CFIs sign your logbook)

Once you have your ticket, you CAN log stick time, even if someone else is acting PIC.

 

[kgruber]

. He offered to start chartering some flights so I can start logging dual time. I am very excited. The flights may only be a couple of times a month but it is a start.

You can't receive instruction on a part 135 charter flight. You can't even touch the controls.

 

[WannaFly]

Well that sucks.
Maybe we can just sign up for a long lesson instead of a charter flight?
I guess I am going to have to rethink this.

 

[gprellwitz]

You can't receive instruction on a part 135 charter flight. You can't even touch the controls.

But oftentimes part 135 charters are one way, so it's part 91 the other way. Deadhead on the part 135 and receive instruction on the part 91. Need to be careful, though, that the paying passengers aren't under the impression that you're part of the crew, because that could lead to some sticky situations.

 

[ajalali]

Once you have your ticket, you CAN log stick time, even if someone else is acting PIC.

hey stupid honest question here... what would you log it as?
haha

 

[WannaFly]

Is an actual logbook required for logging time or can I use an Excel spreadsheet? I have no problems printing off pages and putting them in a small binder to carry with me. What information is required to be on a log sheet?

 

[Everskyward]

But oftentimes part 135 charters are one way, so it's part 91 the other way. Deadhead on the part 135 and receive instruction on the part 91.

I was under the impression from the first post that both Mike and his boss would be paying passengers for the whole trip so there would be no Part 91 legs.

 

[ajalali]

Is an actual logbook required for logging time or can I use an Excel spreadsheet? I have no problems printing off pages and putting them in a small binder to carry with me. What information is required to be on a log sheet?

Get a logbook man. They aren't expensive, and you'll find that after a while it kind of becomes your baby. Even then, like i said before, I would keep an electronic record or photocopies, just incase your logbook gets destroyed. Keep in mind that it's your only original and official record of your training and hours.
Plus, when you go to take your checkride, and the examiner asks to see your logbook and you hand him a binder with pages hanging out from wear and tear, chances are he wont take you too seriously.

Here's a good logbook for you:
http://www.sportys.com/acb/showdetl.cfm?DID=19&Product_ID=1550&CATID=176

cheers,
andy

 

[gprellwitz]

I was under the impression from the first post that both Mike and his boss would be paying passengers for the whole trip so there would be no Part 91 legs.

Yeah, rereading it I think you're right, so it wouldn't work. If he's a paying passenger aboard, it's a 135 flight.

 

[etsisk]

hey stupid honest question here... what would you log it as? haha

Log it like you did as a student - well, not dual, but log the hours you were sole manipulator of the controls, just don't put it down as PIC, I reckon.

 

[ajalali]

hm i guess that's what those blank columns in my logbook are for then.. hahah

 

[Lance F]

I'm glad you caught the bug. Mooneys will do that to one. I think it would be cheaper for the boss to keep flying the Mooney and using the extra he would have paid for the charter to use for real flight lessons for you.

And it would be more fun to keep getting the experience (even though not loggable) in the right seat of the Mooney than in the back of a charter.

 

[WannaFly]

I have never been in the back seat of his Mooney. It looks kind of small.
We usually pack the back of the plane with tools and parts for whatever job we are going to.
Last we talked, he was going to look into renting one of their trainers and asking about hiring an instructor. I don't know what he is thinking but I am not going to question it right now. I agree that he would probably save money paying for training but it is not my call to make. I will be happy with any flight time I can get. I'll just have to wait and see how it all pans out.

 

[dbman5]

"hi im andy" said it but let me reiterate and maybe clarify - one big reason you need to have an actual log book is that your CFI must sign it for all "dual received" and a few other things. It's usually very difficult to store an actual signature in Excel. (Yeah, I know, you can store a scanned signature but that doesn't cut it for the FAA.)

 

[gprellwitz]

(Yeah, I know, you can store a scanned signature but that doesn't cut it for the FAA.)

Do you have a reference for that? I think we had another thread a while back where it was determined that there had never been an actual ruling. NOTE that I'm in agreement that a paper logbook is the way to go, at least for now.

 

[AuntPeggy]

Is an actual logbook required for logging time or can I use an Excel spreadsheet? I have no problems printing off pages and putting them in a small binder to carry with me. What information is required to be on a log sheet?

Read through these threads:

http://www.pilotsofamerica.com/forum/showthread.php?t=20079&highlight=logbook

http://www.pilotsofamerica.com/forum/showthread.php?t=13272&highlight=logbook

http://www.pilotsofamerica.com/forum/showthread.php?t=6903&highlight=logbook

http://www.pilotsofamerica.com/forum/showthread.php?t=15029&highlight=logbook

 

[ntbjounin]

well it could be part 91 rather than 135... but just riding along doesnt allow Dual given. Actual instruction has to be given.

 

[cjcampbell]

You can't receive instruction on a part 135 charter flight. You can't even touch the controls.

Hi Karl. Nice to see you here.

Well, maybe not primary instruction -- but I am a little rusty on this. What are the rules on instructing part 135 pilots for, say, recurrent training? Sorry to digress a little from the main topic.

 

[t0r0nad0]

Wouldn't it be a part 91 flight if the boss hired an instructor to fly his Mooney, and wouldn't that allow instruction to be given? I'm not suggesting that this is a good idea, but rather asking if it would be technically legal. My understanding is that if you rent the plane and the pilot it is Part 135, if you own the plane and rent the pilot, then it's Part 91... is that correct?

 

[KennyFlys]

Wouldn't it be a part 91 flight if the boss hired an instructor to fly his Mooney, and wouldn't that allow instruction to be given? I'm not suggesting that this is a good idea, but rather asking if it would be technically legal. My understanding is that if you rent the plane and the pilot it is Part 135, if you own the plane and rent the pilot, then it's Part 91... is that correct?

If you own the plane, you may hire and employ a commercially certificated pilot who holds a second class medical. However, the pilot may not offer his plane for you to be flown as a passenger nor may you rent his plane and his time.

 

[WannaFly]

So what is looks to be boiling down to is, I need to go to the local flight school and sign up for official lessons. That is the only way I will be able to log any hours.