This awesome airplane is not right for you if you need to see the logbooks

The latest gizmo? The internet has been around for more than 10 years now. And it's not more affordable to buy a cd drive than to not buy a cd drive.
The unwashed masses have only known about, and have access to, the Internet since the early 90's. Those of us that do this for a living have been on it or proprietary networks since the late 60s. Remember, the Web is a mere application that lays on top of the Internet.
 
The unwashed masses have only known about, and have access to, the Internet since the early 90's. Those of us that do this for a living have been on it or proprietary networks since the late 60s. Remember, the Web is a mere application that lays on top of the Internet.
I chose 10 years only because that was the metric used in the message I was responding.
 
That would be especially weird, because PDF files are searchable.
Only PDFs that have text. My logs go back to 1968 and are hand-written until the late 80s when the shops used a typewriter to write the log entries on sticky labels.
 
Only PDFs that have text. My logs go back to 1968 and are hand-written until the late 80s when the shops used a typewriter to write the log entries on sticky labels.
Only pdfs that have text and have been indexed with ocr.
 
Only pdfs that have text and have been indexed with ocr.
Show me a decent OCR program and I'll use it. Unfortunately, OCR wants legible, which most of these logs aren't. All the text PDFs I have are searchable and I don't remember setting any particular option/flag in Adobe Acrobat Pro when I scanned the logs.
 
Good news is, if all parties involved know more about computers than airplanes, the buying/selling process is easy.
 
If a seller wants to purposefully limit their marketing efforts to an even smaller subsegment of an already tiny population of aircraft buyers, I suppose that's on them.

But maybe they shouldn't kvetch when they realize they're left with just the little pool that's remaining.
 
If a seller wants to purposefully limit their marketing efforts to an even smaller subsegment of an already tiny population of aircraft buyers, I suppose that's on them.

But maybe they shouldn't kvetch when they realize they're left with just the little pool that's remaining.
I’m ok if the seller just didn’t respond to me either, I sent a single email, wasn’t calling every 5 minutes for an answer.
 
Anyone who can afford to look at buying an airplane can afford a computer upgrade, sure. Even more affordable is the purchase of an external CD/DVD drive. I have a couple of external DVD drives, both of which are more than 10 years old.

Some people don't have to have the latest gizmo. You don't have to fix what ain't broke.
Speak to me of the wizard you call a CD/DVD drive, we have no such magus creatures in our lands.
 
Show me a decent OCR program and I'll use it. Unfortunately, OCR wants legible, which most of these logs aren't. All the text PDFs I have are searchable and I don't remember setting any particular option/flag in Adobe Acrobat Pro when I scanned the logs.
This is an excellent use case for AI.

 
Sent an enquiry on an airplane for sale and here’s the response (last paragraph) from someone I’ve never talked to before.

Old people syndrome or old people sales tactics? Not the first “old” person I’ve met that claims I’ve talked to them in the past.

Someone at the airport claims I called them for advice on my hangar prior to buying it, umm nooooo. Now a douche selling an airplane? Claims they sent me the logs 6 months ago (aka their airplane isn’t selling since it’s still for sale), and I’ve searched my phone for their email, name and tail number and no results…

“I think I sent those logs to you a while back. I'm willing to share the logs with anyone who wants to come and see the airplane first. It's that nice and probably not the right one for you if you have to see logs to make its value. There's nothing disconcerting in the logs. I work on a trust basis.”
First time buyer here who just closed on a plane 6 days ago, woo hoo. I learned a lot from this experience, because I rejected about 10 planes before closing on this one. Of the 10, 3 went to prebuy before I learned of unacceptable flaws. (Of the 3, 1 I actually didn't have to pay for because my prebuy mechanic called me immediately after analyzing the engine logs and said I should not proceed even with a prebuy).

The majority of sellers I dealt with were not candid and forthright. I don't accuse anyone of being intentionally dishonest. But, people hold extreme biases about their own planes and lack objectivity about them, to put it as nicely as possible. The line between dishonesty versus inability to accept self-criticism gets very blurry in this world.

The "it's that nice and probably not the right one for you if you have to see the logs" guy might be the same guy I talked to about a plane not long ago. Was it a Cessna 182? Anyway, doesn't matter, the dude was out of his damn mind when he said essentially the same thing to me. My strict rule became: No logs, in digital form to boot, no deal to talk about. Period. No exceptions. Email them or I'm moving on.
 
The majority of sellers I dealt with were not candid and forthright.

I found this to be the case as well, on the whole. However,....

I ultimately bought my baby Beech from POA member @zayerpaul who listed it in the POA classifieds. He was quite candid, open, and accomodating throughout the process and I have nothing but good to say about the way he handled the whole deal. It was a pleasure doing business with him.

Now the shop I used for the prebuy and annual, on the other hand,....
 
I found this to be the case as well, on the whole. However,....
And likewise, I did say only that "the majority" were not forthright. Some of the sellers I dealt with were very candid and honest. My favorites were the ones who intentionally took close-up shots of nicks and scratches and hail damage, etc. I don't understand why all sellers don't do this. You're just wasting your own time in addition to the buyer's when you're withholding the dings until they are later discovered as unpleasant surprises. Just disclose up front so that you're matched up with a buyer who likes your plane as it is!
 
If you make the effort to actually come and see the airplane and kick the tires, I'll make the effort to show you the logbooks. No way in hell am I gonna copy/paste mail or copy/email my aircraft logbooks to an "interested" party.

I have enough people in my immediately sphere on influence who feel entitled to waste my time, not currently advertising for anymore.
 
If you make the effort to actually come and see the airplane and kick the tires, I'll make the effort to show you the logbooks. No way in hell am I gonna copy/paste mail or copy/email my aircraft logbooks to an "interested" party.

I have enough people in my immediately sphere on influence who feel entitled to waste my time, not currently advertising for anymore.
Market your plane however you want. Your choice.

Speaking as a buyer: Without proof of complete log books, your plane is automatically worth at least $25,000 less than the listed price in your ad, because you're probably missing a log book, or else there's a mechanical problem revealed in the log books that you don't want me to see. In addition, whatever category of plane you are selling, there are probably about 10 others that pop up online in a given week around the United States, so I have no reason to spend any time whatsoever on a Refuse-to-Email-Logs plane.
 
And likewise, I did say only that "the majority" were not forthright. Some of the sellers I dealt with were very candid and honest. My favorites were the ones who intentionally took close-up shots of nicks and scratches and hail damage, etc. I don't understand why all sellers don't do this. You're just wasting your own time in addition to the buyer's when you're withholding the dings until they are later discovered as unpleasant surprises. Just disclose up front so that you're matched up with a buyer who likes your plane as it is!
Reminds me of people on dating Web sites who post old pictures of themselves.
 
If you make the effort to actually come and see the airplane and kick the tires, I'll make the effort to show you the logbooks. No way in hell am I gonna copy/paste mail or copy/email my aircraft logbooks to an "interested" party.

I have enough people in my immediately sphere on influence who feel entitled to waste my time, not currently advertising for anymore.
My aircraft is a 1969, it does not take that much time to snap photos of the logs (can use a Dropbox link for sharing) and as a Seller you are doing yourself a dis-service by not presenting your best foot forward. It’s like listing a house for sale without photos or with the curtains closed and lights off. It’s just not attractive. People might pay more for something that is well presented.

You can sell however you’d like to though, but if someone asks a question you don’t like, ignore them?
 
And likewise, I did say only that "the majority" were not forthright. Some of the sellers I dealt with were very candid and honest. My favorites were the ones who intentionally took close-up shots of nicks and scratches and hail damage, etc. I don't understand why all sellers don't do this. You're just wasting your own time in addition to the buyer's when you're withholding the dings until they are later discovered as unpleasant surprises. Just disclose up front so that you're matched up with a buyer who likes your plane as it is!
This!! And once you get a buyer that is seriously interested in spite of the scratches and dents, they're going to feel a lot better about the prospect when they show up in person and find no major issues in addition to what photos/description have already shown them is there.
 
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If you make the effort to actually come and see the airplane and kick the tires, I'll make the effort to show you the logbooks. No way in hell am I gonna copy/paste mail or copy/email my aircraft logbooks to an "interested" party.

I have enough people in my immediately sphere on influence who feel entitled to waste my time, not currently advertising for anymore.

Since, like your pilot logbooks, you already have your aircraft logbooks backed up in some kind of electronic form (you do, don't you?), the "effort" to send them by email should be completely minimal. 10, 20 seconds?

If you don't have them backed up, I'd strongly recommend you do this now, it doesn't take but a few minutes for even the oldest airplane. And then when you do decide to sell, it will be a piece of cake to email the logs.
 
Since, like your pilot logbooks, you already have your aircraft logbooks backed up in some kind of electronic form (you do, don't you?), the "effort" to send them by email should be completely minimal. 10, 20 seconds?

If you don't have them backed up, I'd strongly recommend you do this now, it doesn't take but a few minutes for even the oldest airplane. And then when you do decide to sell, it will be a piece of cake to email the logs.

I think my PDFs are too large to send by email as they just contain high resolution photos.
 
Most likely too large for email.


Dropbox (or similar) is a good option.

And for anybody wondering:
Dropbox (2GB) - free
Google Drive (15GB) - free with any Gmail address (make a throwaway one if you want)
iCloud (5GB) - free
Microsoft OneDrive (5GB) - free
etc.

Lots of free options to host a shareable link for your logbook.
 
I think my PDFs are too large to send by email as they just contain high resolution photos.
Like others suggest, there are a few free options for shareable cloud drives. But also, since the log books truly are worth $25,000 or so of the value of your plane, having a cloud backup of them is an awesome idea. It’s even worth paying a monthly fee to Dropbox etc. But at a minimum your asset is protected in case something happens even with a simple thumb drive, or saved on your hard drive.
 
I think it's something that a seller wants me to give them over $100K but doesn't want to WASTE their precious TIME providing every detail. I feel like I'm the poorest person in this conversation because I don't have a couple hundred grand to throw around.

Just a suggestion..., if your time is that valuable please have a broker sell the plane. Many brokers will create a web page dedicated to the aircraft with a youtube video walk around. I've even seen flight and air-to-air videos.

Next time I help someone sell a plane this is what will be posted in the ad: "If you don't have a suitcase full of money? This plane's not right for you". :rolleyes2:
 
I think it's something that a seller wants me to give them over $100K but doesn't want to WASTE their precious TIME providing every detail. I feel like I'm the poorest person in this conversation because I don't have a couple hundred grand to throw around.

Just a suggestion..., if your time is that valuable please have a broker sell the plane. Many brokers will create a web page dedicated to the aircraft with a youtube video walk around. I've even seen flight and air-to-air videos.

Next time I help someone sell a plane this is what will be posted in the ad: "If you don't have a suitcase full of money? This plane's not right for you". :rolleyes2:
In fact, I don’t recall seeing a single airplane listed by a broker for which the broker refused to provide transparent access to all logs, digitally. Most of them prefer linking the logs right on the ad so you don’t even have to ask.
 
PlaneSalesman03.jpeg

Here's a meme to have fun with and post all the best lines....

"This awesome airplane is not right for you if you need to see the logbooks"​

 
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