Third Class Medical Reform

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Ravioli

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How awesome would it be if the bill that has been moved to President was signed into law before Airventure?

Lisa and I signed the petition at least year's Airventure. Seems gratifying to be on board with a positive change that actually gets done.
 
It almost certainly will be. He should sign it by tomorrow in fact, which is when the FAA's current authorization runs out I believe.
 
flightwriter said:
Correct, it has to be no later than tomorrow (7/15) or nada.
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That'll just make the FAA go on paid vacation if he doesn't. (They get paid for the furloughed days...)

Well, he has 11-13 (10 days, excluding Sundays) days to sign it per US Constitution, Article I, Section 7, Clause Two, unless Congress adjourns, as they are wont to frequently do:

Every Bill which shall have passed the House of Representatives and the Senate, shall, before it become a Law, be presented to the President of the United States; If he approve he shall sign it, but if not he shall return it, with his Objections to that House in which it shall have originated, who shall enter the Objections at large on their Journal, and proceed to reconsider it. If after such Reconsideration two thirds of that House shall agree to pass the Bill, it shall be sent, together with the Objections, to the other House, by which it shall likewise be reconsidered, and if approved by two thirds of that House, it shall become a Law. But in all such Cases the Votes of both Houses shall be determined by yeas and Nays, and the Names of the Persons voting for and against the Bill shall be entered on the Journal of each House respectively. If any Bill shall not be returned by the President within ten Days (Sundays excepted) after it shall have been presented to him, the Same shall be a Law, in like Manner as if he had signed it, unless the Congress by their Adjournment prevent its Return, in which Case it shall not be a Law.
​
"Returned" means vetoed. But with margins of 89-4 and 272-142 (66%, just barely below veto-proof 66.6%, but 14 members didn't vote on it), it looks like a sure thing.
 
Well, since the FAA will shut down if he does not sign it by tomorrow, it would be really, really awesome.
 
The FAA has 1 year to include it in the regulations, I wonder what that will look like.
 
Tom-D said:
The FAA has 1 year to include it in the regulations, I wonder what that will look like.
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The most recent version (just re-read it today) says 180 days. The 1 year is if they drag their feet for longer than that, they can't come after you for flying without a 3rd class if you make a "good faith effort" to meet the provisions of the bill. (Exactly how you can do that isn't clear yet.)
 
If it comes to that, likely "good faith" won't be the FAA's call - more like a Federal judge. . .
 
azure said:
The most recent version (just re-read it today) says 180 days. The 1 year is if they drag their feet for longer than that, they can't come after you for flying without a 3rd class if you make a "good faith effort" to meet the provisions of the bill. (Exactly how you can do that isn't clear yet.)
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I wonder what that will look like. I hate repeating myself. :)
 
I read the whole darn thing (well, the medical reform part anyway) and it does seem like a simple act that has been futzed with so many times by so many people that just couldn't keep there hands off of it that it's become kind of a general cluster eff now. For one thing what are you supposed to do, carry your logbook around with you everywhere you go?

Other than that I'm glad it's done and we at least have what we have. It may not completely resuscitate GA but it most certainly will bring a lot of the old crusts with more money than they know what to do with back into the system, or at least get them out of their 65 hp Champs, and that can't be a bad thing.
 
This was the recap sent to me by an Aide for Congressman Rob Woodall


Third class medical reform (section 2 of Pilots Bill of Rights 2) was included in the FAA extension which passed the House unanimously on Monday and passed the Senate yesterday afternoon. It has been sent to the President and will be signed into law before the July 15 deadline. I wanted to also provide some details on the reforms that were included since they differ slightly from the House version. A Senate compromise bill passed 3 times that added some additional requirements but overall the reforms are still a huge win for the general aviation community. Below are some of the details of the third class medical reform provisions that were included in the extension.
  • A pilot must possess a valid driver’s license
  • Must have held a medical certificate in the last 10 years; otherwise a one-time medical is required
  • Complete a medical education course every 2 years (free of charge and online) and you must carry proof of completion in your log book
  • A pilot must see their regular primary care physician at least every 4 years (as opposed to an AME)

Also, the following operating conditions are covered under these reforms (identical to House version):
  • No more than 5 passengers
  • VFR or IFR
  • Not operating for compensation
  • Below 18,000 feet
  • Below 250 knots
  • Maximum take-off weight of 6000 lbs

Additionally, there is a six month deadline for the FAA to put these reforms into place. Otherwise, the above policy will automatically go into effect.
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so my last medical was 6/28/07 so i missed it by 3 weeks?
 
As I understand it, the class 3 has not gone away. What's changed is when it's required. If you only carry fewer than 5, fly below the max, etc., the 3rd class is a one-time thing. Just see your doc every 4 years thereafter and get a form signed.

If you fly beyond those limits, you have to keep getting 3rd class exams at the same old frequency. If you have to do that, you keep running a risk of denial, just like before, and a denial would preclude exercising sport privileges, just like before.

The reform is very helpful to those who have a class 3 or had one within the last 10 years. I wonder how many AOPA brass fall into that particular category. It's considerably less help to those of us who have never had a class 3, or to anyone with a denial, but still a little since the class 3 wickets would only have to negotiated once.
 
hotprops said:
so my last medical was 6/28/07 so i missed it by 3 weeks?
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Is that the issue date or the expiration date? Either way you are good because the rules apply to anyone that had a medical that expired within the 10 years prior to the bill becoming law, which is hopefully today.
 
hotprops said:
so my last medical was 6/28/07 so i missed it by 3 weeks?
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No, you made it by 153 weeks.

(using the 2 year over 40 assumption...) Blues are qualifiers, reds are disqualifiers.

Sec 2307.A:
(a) In general.—Not later than 180 days after the date of enactment of this Act, the Administrator of the Federal Aviation Administration shall issue or revise regulations to ensure that an individual may operate as pilot in command of a covered aircraft if—

(1) the individual possesses a valid driver's license issued by a State, territory, or possession of the United States and complies with all medical requirements or restrictions associated with that license;

(2) the individual holds a medical certificate issued by the Federal Aviation Administration on the date of enactment of this Act, held such a certificate at any point during the 10-year period preceding such date of enactment, or obtains such a certificate after such date of enactment;

(3) the most recent medical certificate issued by the Federal Aviation Administration to the individual—
(A) indicates whether the certificate is first, second, or third class;
(B) may include authorization for special issuance;
(C) may be expired;
(D) cannot have been revoked or suspended; and
(E) cannot have been withdrawn;

(4) the most recent application for airman medical certification submitted to the Federal Aviation Administration by the individual cannot have been completed and denied;​
 
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thanks for straightening me out it was date of exam .also i was thinking it year2017 :oops:,hope i don't get any trick questions at the dmv:eek: and yes i am 63
 
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hotprops said:
thanks for straightening me out it was date of exam .also i was thinking it year2017 :oops:,hope i don't get any trick questions at the dmv:eek: and yes i am 63
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It's the date of the expiration of your last class 3 medical. Even better!
Exam: 6/28/07
3rd Class Medical issued 6/28/07
Expires: 6/30/09
10 Years from that: 6/30/19

:D
 
Half Fast said:
As I understand it, the class 3 has not gone away. What's changed is when it's required. If you only carry fewer than 5, fly below the max, etc., the 3rd class is a one-time thing. Just see your doc every 4 years thereafter and get a form signed.

If you fly beyond those limits, you have to keep getting 3rd class exams at the same old frequency. If you have to do that, you keep running a risk of denial, just like before, and a denial would preclude exercising sport privileges, just like before.

The reform is very helpful to those who have a class 3 or had one within the last 10 years. I wonder how many AOPA brass fall into that particular category. It's considerably less help to those of us who have never had a class 3, or to anyone with a denial, but still a little since the class 3 wickets would only have to negotiated once.
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I see now
 
Anymouse said:
So, here's a question...

How will this affect international flying?
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What are the rules in the country(ies) where you will be flying? I'd guess it would be like the radio station / operator permits, you need them some places and not others.
 
Hank S said:
What are the rules in the country(ies) where you will be flying? I'd guess it would be like the radio station / operator permits, you need them some places and not others.
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I'm on a Class II, so I'm not affected at this time. However, this is kinda what I'm thinking. There might be a bit of confusion when folks want to fly outside the US.
 
Would flight instructor's still need a 3rd class medical? I see it says "Cannot operate for compensation or hire" but I think that only applies to the pilot certificate and not when you're operating as a flight instructor? Also, if you're doing hood work with a student, will the requirement for a medical go away for that?
 
Hank S said:
What are the rules in the country(ies) where you will be flying? I'd guess it would be like the radio station / operator permits, you need them some places and not others.
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I would guess that the Bahamas will let folks fly there under this rule, and possibly some other places in the Caribbean, but probably nowhere else.

Canada would be the most obvious other candidate, but I can't imagine Canada allowing U.S. pilots to fly there under medical standards that are significantly more liberal than those that apply to Canadian pilots there. Canada does have a "category 4" medical that is easier to get than a U.S. third class, and lets you fly as a student pilot or recreational pilot. Recreational pilots are limited to flying aircraft with 4 seats or less, single-engine, no more than one passenger, day VFR. You can get a category 4 medical with a simple medical self-declaration countersigned by an ordinary physician--no exam--if you have a clean medical history. But, if you have any history of things like high blood pressure, depression, kidney stones, etc., you can't self-declare and need to see an AME. One possibility would be for Canada to say that U.S. pilots can fly under the new rules, as long as they stick to 4 seats, day VFR, etc., but even there, I suspect that the Canadian authorities would think that is allowing pilots to fly under a much looser standard than the Canadian category 4 standard.

Unless Canada itself loosens its own medical standards for private pilots, I just don't see it happening. Lots of countries have been experimenting with various ways of simplifying medical standards for recreational pilots, but every country has done it a different way, and any sort of reciprocal, harmonized system of allowing flight without a medical certificate under the current ICAO medical rules is probably decades away, at least.
 
Britain just went to DL medical. Can British pilots fly in Canada?
 
Since proving we are "medically legal" has now become a logbook entry, looks like we now have to carry our logbooks on every flight.

Agree with a post above that says this thing has been touched by so many people that it has become a cluster frick. Just like ObamaCare. A good idea ruined by politics.
 
To those who said PBOR2 would never pass . . .

. . . you were right.
 
RalphInCA said:
Since proving we are "medically legal" has now become a logbook entry, looks like we now have to carry our logbooks on every flight.
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As do Sport pilots. Is that really a big deal?

Heck, by the time this becomes reality, Foreflight will probably have it folded into the electronic logbook somehow.
 
Carrying logbooks is a big deal to me. I frequently fly different airplanes the same day, sometimes owned by someone else. Having to remember to move logbooks from plane to plane would be a pain. I like being able to carry only needed documents in my wallet.
 
kevmor99 said:
Would flight instructor's still need a 3rd class medical? I see it says "Cannot operate for compensation or hire" but I think that only applies to the pilot certificate and not when you're operating as a flight instructor? Also, if you're doing hood work with a student, will the requirement for a medical go away for that?
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AOPA says flight instructors will fly under the new rule, so yes, the medical for hood work goes away.
 
Well, before we start the celebration let's see the effect, how many out of proficiency old pilots will burn smoking holes.
 
N3368K said:
Carrying logbooks is a big deal to me. I frequently fly different airplanes the same day, sometimes owned by someone else. Having to remember to move logbooks from plane to plane would be a pain. I like being able to carry only needed documents in my wallet.
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Remember,,,, FSDO usually gives you an appointment to bring the log in.
no need to carry.
 
N3368K said:
Carrying logbooks is a big deal to me. I frequently fly different airplanes the same day, sometimes owned by someone else. Having to remember to move logbooks from plane to plane would be a pain. I like being able to carry only needed documents in my wallet.
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what's the difference between carrying your head set or flight bag and adding the log to the stuff already there.
???
 
N3368K said:
Carrying logbooks is a big deal to me. I frequently fly different airplanes the same day, sometimes owned by someone else. Having to remember to move logbooks from plane to plane would be a pain. I like being able to carry only needed documents in my wallet.
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Lol. We wanted medical reform, we got it, and we're still not happy.
 
Tom-D said:
Remember,,,, FSDO usually gives you an appointment to bring the log in.
no need to carry.
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How generous and thougtful, and what great customer service. No need for a fat a** bureaucrat, on the clock, to come to you in a GOV, or to meet somewhere mutually convenient. It's not like your time (or leave) have any value. My one "appt" at at a FSDO was a one hour wait after the start time, followed by a blow-off when they told me he was "delayed". Figured that out at the 45 minute mark.
He didn't follow up, and neither did I.
 
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