Thinking of buying a C150 for time building

razorseal said:
it isn't the least expensive thing (around 90 bucks an hour in a C150, so if I share, around $45, hoping I can find someone to fly 600 hours with me).
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I am trying to understand how this "sharing" would work. If you want to log the time, you need to be the sole manipulator of the controls, or you need to be safety pilot for someone who is wearing a view-restricting device. That safety time will count toward your total, but it isn't as valuable as flying the airplane, since you are mostly just watching for traffic.
razorseal said:
feel like if I buy a plane, fly 600 hours (and find some people willing to fly and pay my gas as I provide the plane as much as I can)
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Who can legally fly and pay your gas? You won't be able to get others to pay your expenses.
 
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razorseal said:
No, I am looking at so many planes, I will have to talk things over with AP when an inspection is done when I decide on the plane I want to put an offer on. They will have to give me some info.

I also will further research the plane I'm getting when I make the offer.
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If Cherokees and such from Piper are in consideration, it’s worth reviewing the info. Best advice is avoid one that’s been used as a trainer at any point in it’s life, but with so many having been so it applies to a lot of them.

Thread 'PIPER Wing Spar AD - Final Ruling' https://www.pilotsofamerica.com/community/threads/piper-wing-spar-ad-final-ruling.130292/
 
Let me reiterate that I think you’d have many more hours of (relatively) trouble-free flying with that Zenith 601 than with a much older legacy aircraft. Yes, it’s a bit more money now, but you’ll also get a bit more money when you go to sell it.

As an aside, I mentioned I thought the O-200 was a net negative in terms of operating cost and weight in an LSA. Only fair to mention if you do have engine problems on a cross country flight, most any mechanic you may encounter will be familiar with your little Continental or Lycoming. Though there are a LOT of ROTAX’s out there, qualified ROTAX mechanics are quite a bit harder to find. Even more an issue with their ”-is” injected models, that may need specialized and expensive equipment to troubleshoot if something were to go wrong. I still favor the ROTAX, but the above has to be considered as well.

But best of luck whichever way you decide to go.
 
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You should buy an airplane if you want to own an airplane.
You should not buy an airplane to save money.
If your wife is saying you should buy a 4 seater, you should buy a 4 seater.
 
FastEddieB said:
Let me reiterate that I think you’d have many more hours of (relatively) trouble-free flying with that Zenith 601 than with a much older legacy aircraft. Yes, it’s a bit more money now, but you’ll also get a bit more money when you go to sell it.

As an aside, I mentioned I thought the O-200 was a net negative in terms of operating cost and weight in an LSA. Only fair to mention if you do have engine problems on a cross country flight, most any mechanic you may encounter will be familiar with your little Continental or Lycoming. Though there are a LOT of ROTAX’s out there, qualified ROTAX mechanics are quite a bit harder to find. Even more an issue with their ”-is” injected models, that may need specialized and expensive equipment to troubleshoot if something were to go wrong. I still favor the ROTAX, but the above has to be considered as well.

But best of luck whichever way you decide to go.
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This one caught my eye. I reached out and hope to hear back.

I've been doing a little research on them. Apparently you absolutely want to "b" wing model as there were some critical changes made because of wings collapsing in flight and zenith denying it was desifn flaw, but builder flaw.

www.trade-a-plane.com

ZENAIR/ZENITH ZODIAC CH 601 XLB Single Engine Piston Aircraft For Sale - Used & New 0 - 0

We have 0 ZENAIR/ZENITH ZODIAC CH 601 XLB Single Engine Piston Aircraft For Sale. Search our listings for used & new airplanes updated daily from 100's of private sellers & dealers. 0 - 0
www.trade-a-plane.com www.trade-a-plane.com
 
Ercoupes are a blast to fly and good for time building. Slow, 5gal/hr fuel burn, leave the canopy open in summer. Decent for well maintained grass fields. If I owned a hangar and had money to **** away I'd buy one.
 
Kritchlow said:
600 hours in a year… sheesh, I’m not sure I do that as an airline pilot.
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Yeah.

Imagine time building places want you to do that in about 3 months. Lol...

One of the reasons I want to get my own plane. I can just go at my own pace. I think I can manage 12 hours a week or so, but if not.. so what? I own the plane, i can take 2 years if I want. I'm not on anyone's time but mine, so if I can't reach my goal, it's no big deal.
 
nwaflyer said:
Ercoupes are a blast to fly and good for time building. Slow, 5gal/hr fuel burn, leave the canopy open in summer. Decent for well maintained grass fields. If I owned a hangar and had money to **** away I'd buy one.
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They are def one of the most unique planes I've seen. The yoke steer is very weird to me.
 
Kritchlow said:
600 hours in a year… sheesh, I’m not sure I do that as an airline pilot.
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12 hrs/wk on average. Our normal profile nets 1.6-3.4 per round trip. That’s an XC 4-6x per week.

20-ish years ago I was putting down 400hrs/quarter on deployment and the flight surgeon stepped in and stopped us at 440hrs. Too much flying in too short a period (normal lime was 360hrs/90 days, waived to 400 at the squadron level. It took me two solid weeks of no flying to understand how screwed up my body was flying that much.

Flying part time and working full time, 12-15hrs/week would be my personal max today. Lots of unintended consequences start piling up when multiple candles are being burnt.
 
GeorgeC said:
You should buy an airplane if you want to own an airplane.
You should not buy an airplane to save money.
If your wife is saying you should buy a 4 seater, you should buy a 4 seater.
Click to expand...

If the wife wants 4, you better get at least 6.
 
TCABM said:
12 hrs/wk on average. Our normal profile nets 1.6-3.4 per round trip. That’s an XC 4-6x per week.

20-ish years ago I was putting down 400hrs/quarter on deployment and the flight surgeon stepped in and stopped us at 440hrs. Too much flying in too short a period (normal lime was 360hrs/90 days, waived to 400 at the squadron level. It took me two solid weeks of no flying to understand how screwed up my body was flying that much.

Flying part time and working full time, 12-15hrs/week would be my personal max today. Lots of unintended consequences start piling up when multiple candles are being burnt.
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I think 12 hours a week is doable. A year or two. Plane is obviously going to have some maintenance time in between too.

That's 3 xc trips around somewhere and back. Lean it out, lower power. Cruise to key west... about 3 hours. Then 3 back. Can do Sarasota, Daytona, Orlando. So many spots.

Some days longer flights, some days shorter flights. Some days an hour cruising by the beach.

I think 10 to 12 hours is doable. Maybe I was bit aggressive with my 1 year mark. Thsts why I'm here.... to talk about it
 
I hear you. Private and instrument back in '04 and '06. then took a long break. Working as engineer, got back into flying briefly in 2016, on pause again for marriage and buying a house. Back into it again in 2019, and I needed a BFR. In the lobby I found an ad for a equity club. No website, just email and phone number. It was a sweet deal. Small buy-in, 100/month fixed costs, 25/hr dry in IFR 4 seater. About $70-80 an hour depending on gas price.

All this to say is go rent a plane and fly into all the local airports big and small and look at the message boards. There are ads for partnerships, clubs, planes for sale, etc that you won't find online and the people in the FBO or CFIs know about it or know somebody that does.

I'm now at about 460 hours taking my time working on CFI rating. Slow rolling because of two kids and two jobs. Almost hoping some unicorn flying gig is willing to pay me to fly so I can quit the day job. Don't get me wrong though, I really do want to become a CFI and I enjoy teaching and mentoring because I do that already in my part time job. But I have kids and a mortgage now..
 
razorseal said:
I think 12 hours a week is doable. A year or two. Plane is obviously going to have some maintenance time in between too.

That's 3 xc trips around somewhere and back. Lean it out, lower power. Cruise to key west... about 3 hours. Then 3 back. Can do Sarasota, Daytona, Orlando. So many spots.

Some days longer flights, some days shorter flights. Some days an hour cruising by the beach.

I think 10 to 12 hours is doable. Maybe I was bit aggressive with my 1 year mark. Thsts why I'm here.... to talk about it
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I normally fly 3-5 days a week since 2018 when I got my 172, earned my PPL in 2016, instrument in 2018. I have 1400 hrs now. Mostly in my 172, some in a cheerokee, some in a 182 and some in a arrow.

I flew everyday after work from Aug 3 through Sept 24 2023. I got in 29 hours in Aug and 30 hrs in Sept. By the end I was tired and was not a smart thing to be doing. The most I have flown in a year is 265 hrs and that is a lot of flying in a years time in a 172 and work full time.
My previous best was 23 days in a row a couple, 3 years ago. Probably during covid when I was working less.
If you don't do your own maintenance then I think it would be much tougher to keep flying the same plane everyday. I went to the airport everyday, think about that if you have a family.
I think you would better off renting somewhere than buying since you want to sell after you get your hours.
Good luck to you.
 
farangutan said:
I hear you. Private and instrument back in '04 and '06. then took a long break. Working as engineer, got back into flying briefly in 2016, on pause again for marriage and buying a house. Back into it again in 2019, and I needed a BFR. In the lobby I found an ad for a equity club. No website, just email and phone number. It was a sweet deal. Small buy-in, 100/month fixed costs, 25/hr dry in IFR 4 seater. About $70-80 an hour depending on gas price.

All this to say is go rent a plane and fly into all the local airports big and small and look at the message boards. There are ads for partnerships, clubs, planes for sale, etc that you won't find online and the people in the FBO or CFIs know about it or know somebody that does.

I'm now at about 460 hours taking my time working on CFI rating. Slow rolling because of two kids and two jobs. Almost hoping some unicorn flying gig is willing to pay me to fly so I can quit the day job. Don't get me wrong though, I really do want to become a CFI and I enjoy teaching and mentoring because I do that already in my part time job. But I have kids and a mortgage now..
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Simar situation yeah. That's a great gig you found for that price. I looked at one local airport. When I was checking things out. I will look at few others. I tried looking for deals like yours online, but no luck.
 
Gary Ward said:
I normally fly 3-5 days a week since 2018 when I got my 172, earned my PPL in 2016, instrument in 2018. I have 1400 hrs now. Mostly in my 172, some in a cheerokee, some in a 182 and some in a arrow.

I flew everyday after work from Aug 3 through Sept 24 2023. I got in 29 hours in Aug and 30 hrs in Sept. By the end I was tired and was not a smart thing to be doing. The most I have flown in a year is 265 hrs and that is a lot of flying in a years time in a 172 and work full time.
My previous best was 23 days in a row a couple, 3 years ago. Probably during covid when I was working less.
If you don't do your own maintenance then I think it would be much tougher to keep flying the same plane everyday.
I think you would better off renting somewhere than buying since you want to sell after you get your hours.
Good luck to you.
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Yeah, i hear ya. Just wish I could find a sweet deal like that guy who posted about an equity club.

Back in 12-14 I was renting a c172 from a guy for 90 wet... it was a great deal so i flew it alot. I looked for him and found out he got shut down by faa because he was doing his own work on the planes without a&p. Shame. Now I know why he charged so little though lol.
 
razorseal said:
Simar situation yeah. That's a great gig you found for that price. I looked at one local airport. When I was checking things out. I will look at few others. I tried looking for deals like yours online, but no luck.
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In the years I've been a part of the club, I learned that some people have a share and don't fly but no one is making the effort to sell. Knowing what I know now, if I were to move, I would ask flight schools, CFIs, message boards and pilots and line guys, I run into while getting checked out in planes at all the local airports and hopefully find a couple good clubs and start nudging them to get someone to sell their unused share. In our group of 10, only 3 or 4 fly regularly and 3 or 4 rarely or never fly. but they keep writing checks maintenance and assessments!
 
farangutan said:
In the years I've been a part of the club, I learned that some people have a share and don't fly but no one is making the effort to sell. Knowing what I know now, if I were to move, I would ask flight schools, CFIs, message boards and pilots and line guys, I run into while getting checked out in planes at all the local airports and hopefully find a couple good clubs and start nudging them to get someone to sell their unused share. In our group of 10, only 3 or 4 fly regularly and 3 or 4 rarely or never fly. but they keep writing checks maintenance and assessments!
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Yeah, not sure where I saw/heard but this one guy was doing a shared plane thing like you mentioned. 4 owners. He was 1 of them, the other 3 barely flew so he had almost full time access ofr very little cost (after the buy in)

If I found something like that, it'd be awesome. I'd pay my share to a decent plane, get my hours then keep the equity and fly at my own leisure.

Welp... my 2 training flights got canceled today due to aircraft unavailability. Guess I'll drive to a few local airports and ask at fbo if there's anything. Lol..
 
I'm checked out in planes at 4 airports near me and still hard to get planes sometimes, and even still drive an hour to show up to a plane unavailable. The solution is to buy two planes I think. HA Best of luck shaking the trees. I'm in Tampa for reference.
 
razorseal said:
I think 12 hours a week is doable. A year or two. Plane is obviously going to have some maintenance time in between too.

That's 3 xc trips around somewhere and back. Lean it out, lower power. Cruise to key west... about 3 hours. Then 3 back. Can do Sarasota, Daytona, Orlando. So many spots.

Some days longer flights, some days shorter flights. Some days an hour cruising by the beach.

I think 10 to 12 hours is doable. Maybe I was bit aggressive with my 1 year mark. Thsts why I'm here.... to talk about it
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just thinking out loud here....but my gut says even that is likely a bit optimistic based on averages.
some weekends will be a no go for family obligations.... holidays, birthdays, or whatever...gotta keep them happy
sometimes weather will be bad over a string or days or even a full week
then murphy's law will kick in and there'll be some other thing up as soon as the weather clears...either a maintenance issue, some other conflict, you'll get sick, or whatever...

I'm basing this on my experiences from way back when I was working on my PPL. I wasn't trying to fly nearly as much as you are, budget constraints mostly, but time too, because I working a full time job >40hrs/wk...and I was renting so that threw monkey wrenches in as well...but I was basically trying to fly at least one lesson every weekend) throw in an evening weekday flight or a second lesson now and then)...and there were some months I flew only once, and I recall at least one month when I didn't fly at all.

Not trying to be negative...because I applaud your efforts. Just trying to help think it through.... I wish I'd have done what your are doing 15 or 20 years ago!
 
farangutan said:
In the years I've been a part of the club, I learned that some people have a share and don't fly…
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We have a couple of partners like that.

farangutan said:
…nudging them to get someone to sell their unused share.…
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Delicate territory; one partner took a few years off from flying altogether due to family commitments. He’s back flying somewhat regularly now.

Our partnership also gets right of first refusal and our current position is we will exercise that right.
 
farangutan said:
I'm checked out in planes at 4 airports near me and still hard to get planes sometimes, and even still drive an hour to show up to a plane unavailable. The solution is to buy two planes I think. HA Best of luck shaking the trees. I'm in Tampa for reference.
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I don't remember having tok many issues getting a plane back in the day. Things have changed.
 
Brad W said:
just thinking out loud here....but my gut says even that is likely a bit optimistic based on averages.
some weekends will be a no go for family obligations.... holidays, birthdays, or whatever...gotta keep them happy
sometimes weather will be bad over a string or days or even a full week
then murphy's law will kick in and there'll be some other thing up as soon as the weather clears...either a maintenance issue, some other conflict, you'll get sick, or whatever...

I'm basing this on my experiences from way back when I was working on my PPL. I wasn't trying to fly nearly as much as you are, budget constraints mostly, but time too, because I working a full time job >40hrs/wk...and I was renting so that threw monkey wrenches in as well...but I was basically trying to fly at least one lesson every weekend) throw in an evening weekday flight or a second lesson now and then)...and there were some months I flew only once, and I recall at least one month when I didn't fly at all.

Not trying to be negative...because I applaud your efforts. Just trying to help think it through.... I wish I'd have done what your are doing 15 or 20 years ago!
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Yeah no problem. You're right. I was making a plan. Plans never go as intended lol.

I just found another cfi willing to help me get my cpl and IPC for free and even split thr cost of plane with me. He's looking for hours just like me.

The deeper I dig, the more I see people willing to do anything to get those hours.
 
idahoflier said:
Lots of thoughts about your plan etc, but this would get it done...

boise.craigslist.org

1946 Ercoupe Model D - aviation - by owner - airplane aviation parts - craigslist

Beautiful 1946 Ercoupe Model D, no rudder pedals. Not LSA, it has the 1400lb gross. 2017 Oshkosh winner, New paint and fabric wings recovered in 2015. TT 3008hr SMOH 610hrs, ADSB In/Out installed,...
boise.craigslist.org
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That thing looks like it's in great shape!

I just don't understand how these ercoupes (like the one i linked with like 1300tt) can be so low flying hours and be 80 years old? That's not s good thing either. How long did they sit you know? That's like 30 to 40 hours a year.

Some have advised against the ercoupe for what I wanna do, and some say do it. It's hours in the sky.

Worried keeping thst little thing in a tie dkwn and not a hangar either...
 
razorseal said:
That thing looks like it's in great shape!

I just don't understand how these ercoupes (like the one i linked with like 1300tt) can be so low flying hours and be 80 years old? That's not s good thing either. How long did they sit you know? That's like 30 to 40 hours a year.

Some have advised against the ercoupe for what I wanna do, and some say do it. It's hours in the sky.

Worried keeping thst little thing in a tie dkwn and not a hangar either...
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If you're serious about a 'coupe, you need to connect with these folks:

Ercoupe Owners Club - EOC Home

Ercoupe Owners Club for owners of Ercoupes, Forneys, Alons and Mooney M10's
www.ercoupe.org www.ercoupe.org

They're good little planes, and I was considering buying one when I had my Sport Pilot ticket, but there are a few gotcha items to watch out for. I suggest you read this:

Ercoupe Owners Club - Buying a Coupe - a pre-purchase inspection guide

Ercoupe Owners Club for owners of Ercoupes, Forneys, Alons and Mooney M10's
www.ercoupe.org www.ercoupe.org
 
BTW, when (or if?) MOSAIC gets approved, many more if not all Ercoupes will become eligible to fly as LSAs. This might drive their value up.
 
Half Fast said:
If you're serious about a 'coupe, you need to connect with these folks:

Ercoupe Owners Club - EOC Home

Ercoupe Owners Club for owners of Ercoupes, Forneys, Alons and Mooney M10's
www.ercoupe.org www.ercoupe.org

They're good little planes, and I was considering buying one when I had my Sport Pilot ticket, but there are a few gotcha items to watch out for. I suggest you read this:

Ercoupe Owners Club - Buying a Coupe - a pre-purchase inspection guide

Ercoupe Owners Club for owners of Ercoupes, Forneys, Alons and Mooney M10's
www.ercoupe.org www.ercoupe.org
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Yup I've been lurking there.

I would want an ap experienced in ercoupes for sure.
 
razorseal said:
Yup I've been lurking there.

I would want an ap experienced in ercoupes for sure.
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EOC has a list of 'coupe ap/ias in their Coupe Capers publication, and one of the tech advisors lives in Florida.
 
Friends, if anyone has problems with plastic parts on older airplanes such as Cessna or Piper, don't despair! We can replace worn out parts of the interior and exterior with much stronger and lighter parts made of epoxy fiberglass for a reasonable price. If you prefer, you can also get carbon fiber parts. They will last a long and happy life.
 
Three pages in and nobody has mentioned a C120/C140? Tsk...
 
meglin said:
Friends, if anyone has problems with plastic parts on older airplanes such as Cessna or Piper, don't despair! We can replace worn out parts of the interior and exterior with much stronger and lighter parts made of epoxy fiberglass for a reasonable price. If you prefer, you can also get carbon fiber parts. They will last a long and happy life.
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Do you have a contact?
 
I had a chance to fly with a friend in his Ercoupe:


It was kinda funky cool, and I can see the appeal. Its climb performance was a bit anemic at a field elevation of about 1,800‘, at least compared to my Sky Arrow and other Light Sports and homebuilts I’ve been flying recently.

Would not be my choice, but like I said, not without its appeal.
 
razorseal said:
I just don't understand how these ercoupes (like the one i linked with like 1300tt) can be so low flying hours and be 80 years old? That's not s good thing either. How long did they sit you know? That's like 30 to 40 hours a year.
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1300 hours in 80 years is 16 hours per year.

More likely it was damaged and dismantled and stored for a very long time.
 
I dunno, though,..... Ercoupes historically have been a plane for rich men.

gouldaero.com

Ercoupe – Aircraft of the Month

This months aircraft is the ERCO Ercoupe. On my commute to work I listen to a lot of audio books on Audible, the current book I’m on is Sam Walton made in America (the auto biography of the m…
gouldaero.com gouldaero.com
 
Found this. intrigued. checks the box for the 4 seater wife wanted. Would have to finance though and def look for a partner or two to share with.

www.trade-a-plane.com

PIPER CHEROKEE 140 Single Engine Piston Aircraft For Sale - Used & New 1 - 16

We have 16 PIPER CHEROKEE 140 Single Engine Piston Aircraft For Sale. Search our listings for used & new airplanes updated daily from 100's of private sellers & dealers. 1 - 16
www.trade-a-plane.com www.trade-a-plane.com

I've flown Archers before, I feel similar. Someone did mention the AD for the wing spar, which I'd have to find a neutral A&P there to look closely for me. it's California, so I'm' sure the AP rates there are higher than FL lol
 
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