Thinking like an IFR pilot...

[Exocetid]

I am hoping (WX!!) to head out west on Saturday to a fly-in at an airport about 250 nm away. I'll be leaving a controlled airport, flying over a Class B, possibly in it, over a busy Class C with the final destination a little "out in the middle of nowhere" muni.

I had a 20 year hiatus from flying and when I got back into it, I found that things had changed. Now, when I leave I call clearance delivery and basically go right into the ATC system at that point. It later dawned on me that it was the entry point for IFR flight, but VFR is accommodated as flight following. When I have flown in the IAH, DFW and TPA Class B's, they have vectored me around like an IFR flight, which I have no problem with, in fact, that is the point of this post.

How can I take advantage of IFR "thinking", for lack of a better term, while I am flying solo VFR? Any suggestions or things I may have missed? Should I be using VOR and attempting approaches even with perfect VFR (CAVU) conditions? The reason I ask is that I am on downwind for the IFR ticket, almost ready to take the exam and then start dual instruction. I want to try to build piloting skills so that the CFII can spend more time on IFR with me and less on the little things.

 

[Ted]

Radio work and knowing how to deal with ATC commands is a big part of it. It sounds like you've already got that down.

If you have a safety pilot with you, shooting practice approaches is always a good idea as you approach your IFR ticket. Following victor airways, etc. isn't a bad idea, either.

To me the real "IFR thinking" comes into weather and contingencies, plus in-flight evaluation of what's going on and having your outs lined up in case you need them. The radio work and dealing with ATC are the more practical parts of IFR flight that you have to deal with regardless of the weather.

 

[SCCutler]

Participating in the airspace, using approach and other facilities, is a great way to help prepare yourself. Also, simply using the opportunity to be on your A-game, crisp communications, all that sort of thing.

 

[Trapper John]

I can't think of any instructors I know that would recommend that a prospective IR student try to self-teach. You'd probably end up having the IR instructor having to un-teach what you taught yourself.

Working on being good at altitude, airspeed and heading/course control would be useful, though.


Trapper John

 

[Ted]

I can't think of any instructors I know that would recommend that a prospective IR student try to self-teach. You'd probably end up having the IR instructor having to un-teach what you taught yourself.

Working on being good at altitude, airspeed and heading/course control would be useful, though.

Radio communications and such you learn by using them. Your instructor is just as likely to teach you bad habits there since many CFIIs (unfortunately) don't actually do enough real world IR stuff, and even airline pilots have habits that they frequently shouldn't. Still, you can tell which pilots on radio are frequent IFR pilots. Listening and working like them is probably a good starting point.

 

[wpierce]

I would second (or third) working on holding altitude and headings. I'm most of the way through my IR and starting to look forward to the practical. On my last x-country (KMEM -KGSO) I got the Low Level IFR charts and flew VOR to VOR, victor airways and intersections. You could start flying the victor airways and ALWAYS get flight following, when able, so you can participate in the system and hear what is being said to the IFR pilots and their responses. Then critique the pilots, what did they say that was unnecessary, did what they say make sense, were they clear and concise or did it take them 30 seconds to respond to heading and altitude change repeat?

 

[Trapper John]

Radio communications and such you learn by using them. Your instructor is just as likely to teach you bad habits there since many CFIIs (unfortunately) don't actually do enough real world IR stuff, and even airline pilots have habits that they frequently shouldn't. Still, you can tell which pilots on radio are frequent IFR pilots. Listening and working like them is probably a good starting point.

Effective radio communications aren't the exclusive province of instrument-rated pilots. Since I'm VFR only, I won't take offense, since I'm sure none was meant. :wink2:

I'm sure you're right that there are bad CFIIs out there, but the OP was asking about things like practicing shooting approaches, and I just can't think that would be a very good thing to try to do.


Trapper John

 

[dmccormack]

I'm sure you're right that there are bad CFIIs out there, but the OP was asking about things like practicing shooting approaches, and I just can't think that would be a very good thing to try to do.

Trapper John

Very true.

IFR pilots in training flying solo should concentrate on precise flying -- heading <5 degrees, altitude +/- 20', airspeed +/-5 knots.

 

[Ted]

Effective radio communications aren't the exclusive province of instrument-rated pilots. Since I'm VFR only, I won't take offense, since I'm sure none was meant. :wink2:

You are correct and I didn't mean to offend. However I have found on the whole that VFR pilots generally use the radio less and it shows. That probably varies from place to place, but around this area it's usually pretty obvious. I know that for a while (and probably still today) it's obvious that I don't normally fly out of non-towered fields often and wasn't trained at one. My calls do the job fine, but I'm much more used to towered fields.

I'm sure you're right that there are bad CFIIs out there, but the OP was asking about things like practicing shooting approaches, and I just can't think that would be a very good thing to try to do.

If he was just starting his training then I agree that probably wouldn't be good. If he's nearing the end as he stated, then I don't see an issue with it and think it would be fine to do, especially if he's going into a new airport. Real instrument flying involves shooting a lot of approaches you may not have seen before, and certainly not shot before. By the time you're approaching your checkride you should be ready to go to new areas and shoot new approaches, planning XCs to places you haven't been before. Obviously some will require more preparation than others.

 

[Trapper John]

You are correct and I didn't mean to offend. However I have found on the whole that VFR pilots generally use the radio less and it shows. That probably varies from place to place, but around this area it's usually pretty obvious. I know that for a while (and probably still today) it's obvious that I don't normally fly out of non-towered fields often and wasn't trained at one. My calls do the job fine, but I'm much more used to towered fields.

No offense taken, just doing my part to point out that there are non-instrument rated pilots that take their performance seriously, in spite of what you might hear on CTAF on Saturday mornings. I'd agree that the more you do something, the better you tend to do it, as long as you were taught correctly in the first place.

If he was just starting his training then I agree that probably wouldn't be good. If he's nearing the end as he stated, then I don't see an issue with it and think it would be fine to do, especially if he's going into a new airport. Real instrument flying involves shooting a lot of approaches you may not have seen before, and certainly not shot before. By the time you're approaching your checkride you should be ready to go to new areas and shoot new approaches, planning XCs to places you haven't been before. Obviously some will require more preparation than others.

I took the OP's statement of "I am on downwind for the IFR ticket, almost ready to take the exam and then start dual instruction" to mean that he hadn't received any instrument instruction yet, but it's not exactly clear what "on downwind" means - maybe I am on downwind for my commercial and just don't know it yet...


Trapper John

 

[ArrowFlyer]

Do you plan on doing the IFR training in the same plane that you will be flying on your trip? If so, take the time to memorize power and pitch settings for different phases of your flight, ie. 500 fpm climbs and descents, etc. Use those settings on climb out and descent into your destination airport. I don't know if you have selected a CFII yet, but another good idea would be to bring him with you on the trip and take a hood or Foggles as well. You could log some simulated instrument time as well.

John

 

[flyersfan31]

I can't think of any instructors I know that would recommend that a prospective IR student try to self-teach. You'd probably end up having the IR instructor having to un-teach what you taught yourself.

Working on being good at altitude, airspeed and heading/course control would be useful, though.


Trapper John

Bing! Excellent advice.

 

[Exocetid]

Thanks to all for some great suggestions--is this forum great or what!?

To respond to some of the negative vibes:

One thing I have learned is that flight instructors are far from gods and, like most experts, rarely agree amongst themselves. I plan to choose mine as carefully as he chooses me and I would hope the latter isn't based on my bank account. If he doesn't like the idea that I have been working on skills without him, which I will outline in detail so there is no misunderstanding, then I will find another. What wisdom has taught me is that good flying is not done with a book, but rather with a set of thinking skills that allow you to deal with situations that may not have ever been in a book to begin with. If an instructor is too unyielding, then I steer clear. I have had the very best and they always have been less worried about how things were done and more about the outcome. I am not saying that everything has been seat of the pants and stick and rudder, but close to.

Likewise, if I pick up a bad habit then I am quick to let it loose when instructed appropriately and I am always looking for better ways to do things.

 

[Trapper John]

I plan to choose mine as carefully as he chooses me and I would hope the latter isn't based on my bank account. If he doesn't like the idea that I have been working on skills without him, which I will outline in detail so there is no misunderstanding, then I will find another.

If your objective is to make sure the training is done cost-effectively, it would be good to talk to some CFIIs to see what they recommend before you go too far on your own, though.

What wisdom has taught me is that good flying is not done with a book, but rather with a set of thinking skills that allow you to deal with situations that may not have ever been in a book to begin with. If an instructor is too unyielding, then I steer clear. I have had the very best and they always have been less worried about how things were done and more about the outcome. I am not saying that everything has been seat of the pants and stick and rudder, but close to.

Agree that rote instruction seldom yields good long term results. The "why" should be appropriately balanced with the "how".

...I am always looking for better ways to do things.

Sounds like a good way to approach it.


Trapper John

 

[kwoody7]

Wow. A lot of good thinking going on this subject. Get yourself a good CFII and get out and start training. Relearning is much harder and more expensive than learning the "right" way first. Find an instructor that will let you experience flying in the system and in the weather. Simulators like FSX and XPlane have their place in learning the thinking parts and the pace of flying by reference to instruments. Let your instructor guide how to use your computer wisely. Instrument training is not something you should teach yourself. Get a scanner and listen to the flow of IFR traffic in your area. You'll quickly notice there is an order and pattern to the activities in and out of the airports near you. ATC uses (most of the time) a standard lexicon. You can find that in the pilot/controller glossary in the back of the AIM. Learn your airplane's pitch and power settings to give you a predictable airspeed and climb/descent rates.

Your instrument training will leave you a better pilot and a safer pilot. Remember, instrument flying happens between your ears. Good luck and safe flying.

 

[Exocetid]

Wow. A lot of good thinking going on this subject. Get yourself a good CFII and get out and start training. Relearning is much harder and more expensive than learning the "right" way first. Find an instructor that will let you experience flying in the system and in the weather. Simulators like FSX and XPlane have their place in learning the thinking parts and the pace of flying by reference to instruments. Let your instructor guide how to use your computer wisely. Instrument training is not something you should teach yourself. Get a scanner and listen to the flow of IFR traffic in your area. You'll quickly notice there is an order and pattern to the activities in and out of the airports near you. ATC uses (most of the time) a standard lexicon. You can find that in the pilot/controller glossary in the back of the AIM. Learn your airplane's pitch and power settings to give you a predictable airspeed and climb/descent rates.

Your instrument training will leave you a better pilot and a safer pilot. Remember, instrument flying happens between your ears. Good luck and safe flying.

A good summary and excellent points. But let me add that you don't want to overlook the mission. If your mission is to enter aviation as a provider; i.e., full-time instructor, commercial pilot, ATP--then what you outlined is a good plan--stop at nothing to achieve your goals. That is not my mission and I am not alone. My time is needed elsewhere to support what is something of an obscenely expensive hobby (other Mooney owners will concur). As such, I have to do this when I can as I need to be as frugal with training expenses as I am with O&M expenses on my plane and this is while maintaining the highest standards possible in terms of safety, since only a fool skimps on that. Since a mortgage payment is not waiting on me to get my IFR ticket, I have a bit of leisure in getting it. Since I have that leisure, I can use it to my advantage when I am flying because that is the one activity that I won't back down on--hence the "thinking like an IFR pilot", which you and the others have so excellently outlined.

Thanks!

 

[dmccormack]

My time is needed elsewhere to support what is something of an obscenely expensive hobby (other Mooney owners will concur). As such, I have to do this when I can as I need to be as frugal with training expenses as I am with O&M expenses on my plane and this is while maintaining the highest standards possible in terms of safety, since only a fool skimps on that. Since a mortgage payment is not waiting on me to get my IFR ticket, I have a bit of leisure in getting it. Since I have that leisure, I can use it to my advantage when I am flying because that is the one activity that I won't back down on--hence the "thinking like an IFR pilot", which you and the others have so excellently outlined.

Thanks!

If you want to save in the total cost of acquiring the IR, fly as often as possible in the shortest span possible.

Most students that wait a couple of weeks or more between lessons end up spending half the current lesson re-learning what was forgotten from last lesson -- no matter how smart you are.

I think most of us who attained various ratings in minimal time will concur that frequency trumps nearly every other factor.

 

[Exocetid]

If you want to save in the total cost of acquiring the IR, fly as often as possible in the shortest span possible.

I hear that! A good friend who is in a similar situation to mine (he's an attorney) just got his IFR. He cleared a week out of his schedule and did the 5 day course. He passed his written before hand and did a lot of flying when he could with "IFR in mind".

 

[poadeleted20]

IFR pilots in training flying solo should concentrate on precise flying -- heading <5 degrees, altitude +/- 20', airspeed +/-5 knots.

...but don't focus so much on precision that you forget to look outside. And that's a continuing problem for IR pilots flying IFR in VMC, too.

 

[dmccormack]

...but don't focus so much on precision that you forget to look outside. And that's a continuing problem for IR pilots flying IFR in VMC, too.

Very true! But VFR maintaining heading w/n 5 degrees should be easy except over water or in haze. Altitude takes a bit more air sense, certainly.