Thinking About Hanging Up My Spurs

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OneCharlieTango

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OneCharlieTango
These threads come up from time to time — the opposite of the “what plane should I buy?” threads. I’m thinking about giving up aviation, a lifestyle I’ve lived for most of 30 years.

I just turned 60 and, just like that, I realized that I’m running the bell lap, playing the fourth quarter, acting the third act, or whatever metaphor speaks to you. The question is, does aviation add to or subtract from my life in the next decade or so?

Start with money. I have a Skywagon, which is a pretty simple airplane. Maintenance hasn’t been awful, but it has that big Continental up front, waiting for an opportunity. What was recently a $35k overhaul is now a $50k overhaul with a 6-month wait. Hangar rent, strangely, hasn’t changed in 10 years (shhhhhhh!). Insurance on this beast is over $3000, pushing $4000. Annuals run $2000 unless there’s something to fix, which there always is.

Gas. Not only is it $7 a gallon at home, I was looking yesterday at a fishing destination with 3 different airports, the cheapest of which was $8.88. Leaded AVGAS is in imminent peril, with G100UL being essentially a pig in a poke for us, especially cost-wise. There’s just no way it’ll sell for less than $10.

Speaking of which, back to money. I’ve worked hard and accumulated some assets. Unfortunately, they’re worth some 20% less than they were a year ago. Add in 8% inflation (which is more like 10-12% in real life), and my spendable net worth is down 30% or more. All of this at a time when I’ve been hoping to slow down at work. Next summer, I’m planning to job share with one of my partners. The deal is made; there’s no backing out. Even if that weren’t the case, I’m tired.

Maintenance. Mechanics are getting harder and harder to come by. And there are a couple of things on a Skywagon that are different from most Cessnas, making both parts and knowledge hard to come by. The hourly rate is double what it was 10 years ago. My income is not.

The travel. I’ve traveled a lot in this airplane. More, in fact, than I did when I had a Bonanza, which was more suited to that mission. But ground transportation is getting harder and harder to find. Unless I go more than 300-400 miles, driving is faster, safer, and more convenient. If I go more than that, weather challenges can take the joy out of a trip pretty fast. And if I go much more than that, I’ll be flying commercial. My son is a United FO. We haven’t taken advantage of the travel benefits yet, because work makes my schedule too tight to take the risk.

And one more glance at money. I fly roughly 100 hours a year. Say I cut back to save and only fly 75. Seventy-five hours at 13gph average (LOP) at a soon-to-come $10/gal is $9750. Insurance, like I said, is pushing $4000. Hangar is $3000/year. Annual has been $2000 but my long-time mechanic has gone to greener pastures, so this one will cost more, as I pay shop rate for log review. Still, call it $2000. So I’m at $18,750 before the first thing breaks. I can swing that working full time. How hard it is part time will be determined by things like inflation, as my income won’t be following that curve.

If I sold the wagon, that would give me enough to pay off the house with enough left over for a small RV, a hunting dog, 10 pheasant trips and 10 major fishing trips, plus a European vacation before I’m too old to know where I am.

Talk me off this cliff!
 
Sell while the selling is still good.

When people say 'talk me out of' they're looking for someone to invalidate the data used to make the decision.

Data seems reasonable.
 
Sounds like you need to trade down to a smaller, cheaper plane. Why not a J3 or something along that ilk? 2 seats, comfy, slow but able to give you enough of the thrill in small, tight spaces to make it fun.

Also, I'll take your wagon...
 
Excellent summary. I’m sure you’re not alone in agonizing on when the time is right to move on to other hobbies and pastimes.

I felt much the same in 2007, when I was 3 years into ownership of a Cirrus SR22. Not ready to give up on flying, I sold it, invested about 2/3 of the sale price and bought a Light Sport. Sipping mogas combined with the ability to do the lion’s share of the maintenance and Annual Condition Inspections has brought the cost of flying down substantially. I think I average about 35 hours a year, almost entirely local breakfast runs and other local flight with friends and acquaintances.

Like you, when we think of trips we primarily think “road trip”. We find those very refreshing, with modern tech advances really cutting down on the fatigue factor, and giving us a chance to catch up on podcasts. And, after a brief hiatus, we’re easing back into RV travel with our tow behind travel trailer.

In short, if you don’t want to completely give up on aviation, Light Sport is an option. But if you do, earmarking those funds poured into aviation can certainly be used for other fun hobbies. Good luck whichever way you decide to go!
 
You can cut costs significantly while continuing to scratch the flying bug by taking on partners, or selling your plane and joining a flying club, or becoming a renter. I'm sure you've considered these and all may be disappointing to some extent compared to sole ownership, but they would keep you in the air.
 
My Mooney is for sale. Between my continual penury and declining eyesight, it's time for the airplane to go. I will miss it more than I can say, but writing is written on the wall in big fluorescent letters.
 
Sell it to your rich airline pilot son, then borrow it when he’s not using it.

Otherwise the LSA advice is wise, or at least a less-burdensome plane.

Drop back to a simple fixed gear, fixed prop 4x4. A Tiger, a Cherokee 180, a Warrior, a Sundowner, etc., would do the 300 mile trips just fine on less fuel, and at 300-400 miles the speed loss isn’t really much of a time penalty. Maintenance will be much less. Some of these planes can burn mogas, saving you quite a bit on fuel. Also, the insurance will come down.

Or you could just buy a motorcycle.
 
I am looking at things a little different. I jut got my ticket a couple weeks ago though I have over 200 hours. I am older than you by several years. I built my 9A and I am enjoying the heck out of it. I started building when I was in my late 50's. It is not cheap but on the reasonable side since I can do all the work on it. I average about 7.5 ghp and we are at $5.70 in my part of Michigan.

With the economy as it is and probably will get, you may have a good plan. $20k a year for a hobby isnt cheap but nothing is. If you enjoy it more than the worry about the money, you have your answer. Good luck either way. Life is fun - dont stress the extra stuff!
 
OneCharlieTango said:
Talk me off this cliff!
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How about you move away from the cliff just stroll to the other side of the hill that has a gentle slope? :p I turn 59 in Jan and I'm retiring in March and moving. That's just another stage of life. My parents are 85 and still out living life. My Dad flies his Extra 300 3 X a week. Ok, it's R/C but still!

Sell the Skywagon, find a like minded group of 5-10 guys and buy something easier to maintain. A 182 or a Dakota is a decent traveling plane with lower costs all around and then you're splitting the costs. You walk away from GA you're going to miss it. The money will work itself out.

I look forward to a whole lot of flying in retirement.
 
Well, very few of us would be flying if it had to make economic sense.

You've enumerated the cost, now you need to put a value on the benefit. Yes, it is intangible, so it is harder.

I second the recommendation to look at bringing on a partner or two.
 
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Another vote for either scaling back or taking on partners rather than giving it up altogether. Even if I were the only one flying my plane (RV-12 bought used), my annual cost to fly 100 hours would be under $8K, and that includes hangar and insurance. On top of that we're splitting the fixed cost 3 ways, and there's virtually no competition for flying hours. Yes, the plane is not a Skywagon or a Mooney, but 120 knots and two seats works to scratch the flying itch quite well.

Edit: I just recently turned 62, and I'm hoping to fly more, not less, just to keep myself more active and try to keep my brain sharp. We'll see how that works.
 
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Find some partners or a flying club. If you don't have a true mission for the Skywagon, sell it. You can pick up some great experimentals that may be more exciting to fly and cut your fuel cost in half, even at the same number of hours. 60 years old is a milestone, but I'd say statistically you're still solidly in the 3rd quarter.
 
We all look over that cliff eventually and often more than once in our lives. I played football in high school, college, semi-pro, and even stuck my toe in the pro level (didn't leave that one by my choice!). I was 34 when my doctor told me I'd had broken my collar bone twice, broke ribs, had two shoulder surgeries, had my hip scoped, and was on my way to getting a hip replacement (which I now have) and it was time to hang up the pads. When I walked away, it was devastating. It had been a huge part of my life and shaped me as a person and people manager. I'm 49 going on 70 with my broken body, but I can understand why TB is still playing. I would do it again.

Now I'm getting tired of the photo shoots for the magazines and their deadlines. It wears me down. It's cool to get people on the covers, but the deadlines are hampered by my day job, weather, me being available, my photo pilot being available, the subject pilot being available, the sun setting early, and both planes being in flying condition. I'd be lying if I didn't say I sometimes contemplate hanging up the cameras, selling the 182, getting a biplane and getting back to enjoying aviation. Take all of the expenses you mentioned and add in $6500 cameras, expensive lenses, hotels and I lose a ton of money each year. Luckily my kids are grown and I live alone, so I don't have to justify blowing all of my money!

Soon I'll reaching out to you guys looking for cool airplanes to shoot for museums, etc. I've got to find a way to bring back the joy in something I've loved for years.

We all look over that cliff sometimes and it's never an easy decision.
 
OneCharlieTango said:
These threads come up from time to time — the opposite of the “what plane should I buy?” threads. I’m thinking about giving up aviation, a lifestyle I’ve lived for most of 30 years.

I just turned 60 and, just like that, I realized that I’m running the bell lap, playing the fourth quarter, acting the third act, or whatever metaphor speaks to you. The question is, does aviation add to or subtract from my life in the next decade or so?

Start with money. I have a Skywagon, which is a pretty simple airplane. Maintenance hasn’t been awful, but it has that big Continental up front, waiting for an opportunity. What was recently a $35k overhaul is now a $50k overhaul with a 6-month wait. Hangar rent, strangely, hasn’t changed in 10 years (shhhhhhh!). Insurance on this beast is over $3000, pushing $4000. Annuals run $2000 unless there’s something to fix, which there always is.

Gas. Not only is it $7 a gallon at home, I was looking yesterday at a fishing destination with 3 different airports, the cheapest of which was $8.88. Leaded AVGAS is in imminent peril, with G100UL being essentially a pig in a poke for us, especially cost-wise. There’s just no way it’ll sell for less than $10.

Speaking of which, back to money. I’ve worked hard and accumulated some assets. Unfortunately, they’re worth some 20% less than they were a year ago. Add in 8% inflation (which is more like 10-12% in real life), and my spendable net worth is down 30% or more. All of this at a time when I’ve been hoping to slow down at work. Next summer, I’m planning to job share with one of my partners. The deal is made; there’s no backing out. Even if that weren’t the case, I’m tired.

Maintenance. Mechanics are getting harder and harder to come by. And there are a couple of things on a Skywagon that are different from most Cessnas, making both parts and knowledge hard to come by. The hourly rate is double what it was 10 years ago. My income is not.

The travel. I’ve traveled a lot in this airplane. More, in fact, than I did when I had a Bonanza, which was more suited to that mission. But ground transportation is getting harder and harder to find. Unless I go more than 300-400 miles, driving is faster, safer, and more convenient. If I go more than that, weather challenges can take the joy out of a trip pretty fast. And if I go much more than that, I’ll be flying commercial. My son is a United FO. We haven’t taken advantage of the travel benefits yet, because work makes my schedule too tight to take the risk.

And one more glance at money. I fly roughly 100 hours a year. Say I cut back to save and only fly 75. Seventy-five hours at 13gph average (LOP) at a soon-to-come $10/gal is $9750. Insurance, like I said, is pushing $4000. Hangar is $3000/year. Annual has been $2000 but my long-time mechanic has gone to greener pastures, so this one will cost more, as I pay shop rate for log review. Still, call it $2000. So I’m at $18,750 before the first thing breaks. I can swing that working full time. How hard it is part time will be determined by things like inflation, as my income won’t be following that curve.

If I sold the wagon, that would give me enough to pay off the house with enough left over for a small RV, a hunting dog, 10 pheasant trips and 10 major fishing trips, plus a European vacation before I’m too old to know where I am.

Talk me off this cliff!
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I had a decision kinda like this to make once. I imagined it was 10 years later and what I might have thought then looking back about that decision. Someone once said 'if you aren't making memories, you're missing the point.' Kind sounds like maybe you might be thinking about expanding the 'categories' of your memories.
 
The issue I see for you is financial. Only you can answer that. 60 is the new 40.
 
Your post sounds more like you are ready to leave ownership than flying. There certainly comes a time to let go, but you may find it entertaining to either bring in a partner or 2, or sell the wagon and buy a cub or other LSA. …or rent.

It may be a cliff, or an off-ramp. Only you can decide. I went the other way. Building a Zenith CH750 and I just bought a Seneca at auction as another project. Both represent more time than money, but it’s my fun. If you move on, my $0.02 is just make sure you have a new “thing”. A good hunting dog will certainly qualify. You have done some good analysis and came up with some good things to do post skywagon and that’s key. Good luck,
 
We sold out airplane back in July. I am a few years older than you are, but neither age nor financial considerations (at least primarily) were the reasons. After much consideration, I decided it was just time.

I still enjoy flying, but like you, not all the headaches and expense that go along with airplane ownership. Our mechanic is still working, but slowing down. My days are not nearly as busy as they used to be, but busy enough to still keep me from having time for all the things I really enjoy doing (I like hunting and fishing too!). I was in a similar position as you, when a young guy with a young family jumped on the possibility that we might decide to sell. After talking with him, sharing pictures, etc., I just could not keep our airplane for my 50 hours or so a year I was flying. At this stage in my life, the young man needed her and I no longer did. I guess it really was time, because I don’t miss flying, after flying for 28 years, nearly as much as I thought I would.

I know I am talking you in to jumping instead of backing up like most folks here, but my point is that if you feel like it is time, it is time. Good luck with your decision!
 
It sounds like your reasons for quitting are primarily financial. If my flying cost that much I would have quit years ago, or never started. Sell the wagon and buy something cheaper, like an experimental, or a light sport. I'm 63 and have no intention of quitting until I'm physically unable to do it.
 
Heck, I got my PPL the year I turned 60! I hear you though - my dream of ownership, retiring in 2 years, traveling - gone with the IRA/401k collapse. I'll be working for several more years now.

Lot of great advice above. Sell the plane and join a club / rent if you want to keep flying. But also understand if you decide you've been there, done that with flying. I have a motorcycle that I need to sell because I just moved on from riding. It's all good if you have other things now.
 
A few years ago, I was in a similar boat as the OP. I co-owned a C185 with my brother in Alaska but was moving to the lower 48. I sold my 50% of the airplane to him. Very bad timing... the airplane has more than doubled in value since :). I thought- I'm getting older(late 50's at that time), airplanes are less "necessary" in the L48 than Alaska, costs are rising, etc. After owning aircraft continuously since I was 18, I decided to stop. That lasted about year... I bought a Grumman Tiger, which wasn't ideal for the altitude of my home base, sold it and bought an RV9A. Way less expensive to operate, insure and maintain than a Cessna 185... but it also hauls a lot less. I fly less than I did in Alaska- only 50 hrs last year... but don't plan to give it up anytime soon. Downsizing is an option.

P.S. - The fellow that sold me the RV and checked me out in it, was an anesthesiologist. He was 81 but didn't look it. He was selling the RV to get a 182. Said he needed more seats so that his grandkids could go. He still worked a few days a month at his local hospital "to stay sharp". I want to be like him. :)
 
Go for another flight and see if it’s still worth it. Add a partner or two. Enjoy it while you still can.

I also am worried about future fuel prices, economy, markets, inflation, etc. All are valid points. Maybe that could change with some quality leadership. Maybe JC will come get his followers before then. I’m hoping for the latter.
 
OneCharlieTango said:
These threads come up from time to time — the opposite of the “what plane should I buy?” threads. I’m thinking about giving up aviation, a lifestyle I’ve lived for most of 30 years.
Click to expand...

We lost our Cherokee in my 70th year to a storm. My first impulse was to replace it, but after having one sold out from under me, I reconsidered and decided to let that be a sign that it was time to let it go. Two years later I have no regrets. Probably would never top the 44 years of memories that are in my head anyway.
 
Dana said:
Sell the wagon and buy something cheaper, like an experimental, or a light sport. I'm 63 and have no intention of quitting until I'm physically unable to do it.
Click to expand...

:yeahthat:

I'm a couple of years ahead of you and I sometimes wonder how long the dream will last.

An inexpensive experimental, LSA, or even ultralight (if you so dare) can keep a pilot in the skies.

As long as you have reasonable strength and the gray (or is it grey?) matter is still functioning ...
 
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Lowflynjack said:
Soon I'll reaching out to you guys looking for cool airplanes to shoot for museums, etc. I've got to find a way to bring back the joy in something I've loved for years.
Click to expand...


Have you talked to the Commemorative Air Force folks yet? Even if they don’t have a need themselves (and they well may), they’ll have contacts and know who can use your talents. Network, man!
 
No advice for or against, but as you alluded in your OP, the void that will exist if and when you take away airplanes needs to be filled with something other than alcohol and drugs.
 
wheaties said:
Sounds like you need to trade down to a smaller, cheaper plane. Why not a J3 or something along that ilk? 2 seats, comfy, slow but able to give you enough of the thrill in small, tight spaces to make it fun.

Also, I'll take your wagon...
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The problem with a J-3 — I used to have one — is that it’s almost bicycle speed. It isn’t even reasonable for a lunch run. I did think about getting something with folding wings that I could trailer behind an RV. That’s a retirement idea, though, rather than a scaling-back idea.

Lots of good thoughts so far. Thanks!

My Skywagon is going in for annual next week. It’s on probation; if it tries to hurt me, I know how to sell an airplane!
 
You have valid reasons. I would make sure that you’ll still be happy if you hang the headset up and don’t fly anymore. Do you have other things in your life that bring the joy that flying does? The truth is, flying is the cheapest now that it probably ever will be. Fixed costs are only going to get more and more expensive if history is any indication.

For me, the money I spend flying, is money well spent. I only go round the merry-go-round once, I might as well do what I like to do, cause in the end, the money is useless. Yeah it’s expensive, but I’m not sure what I’d replace it with.
 
This is such a personal decision! Those of us that fly for transportation look at it very differently than those of us that fly for pleasure only. I used to be in the former, now I'm in the latter. Part of my decision path is all the things left on my bucket list. I have a great situation, but it takes time and I've done most things I could possibly do, so almost everything is a repeat. I'm trying gliding in a club currently and that's kinda stimulating. After I get my ticket, I will rethink the whole thing again.

One of the challenges is insurance requirements. I fly for proficiency, but the insurance company only looks at hours. I have to fly for the sake of time building. If they just counted operations, I would be golden. Age really is just a number if you are lucky enough to stay healthy and work at staying fit. I'm 81, FWIW. I'll probably fly my Citabria until I can't, but who knows.

Good luck with whatever you decide.
 
I'm the same age and of a similar mindset as the OP. For me it's not so much about the money, but the maintenance. It's no longer worth the hassle and headache.
 
I'm 68 and am still working on my PPL. It's expensive, even in a LSA, but I figure it's never going to be less expensive. Also, I've never seen a trailer hitch on hearse.
 
Some of the posters here are hysterical. "Find a couple partners". Only did that for 6 months to get jerked around. "Find a club". Isn't a club anywhere within a hundred miles that wants a retractable, insurance is too much. Obviously the folks promulgating this drivel have never tried any of these approaches.
 
steingar said:
Some of the posters here are hysterical. "Find a couple partners". Only did that for 6 months to get jerked around. "Find a club". Isn't a club anywhere within a hundred miles that wants a retractable, insurance is too much. Obviously the folks promulgating this drivel have never tried any of these approaches.
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I 'found a club' 17 years ago. It continues to work just fine.
 
steingar said:
Some of the posters here are hysterical. "Find a couple partners". Only did that for 6 months to get jerked around. "Find a club". Isn't a club anywhere within a hundred miles that wants a retractable, insurance is too much. Obviously the folks promulgating this drivel have never tried any of these approaches.
Click to expand...

Ah, so the fact that it didn't work for you must mean it's not ever a viable solution. Got it.
 
I think clubs and partners are always about who you get. I’d partner with an older pilot and share costs on a well kept plane once I complete PPL and get some hours. I’ll be 49-50. Never say never on your options.
 
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