Thinking about getting gas. Then Ranting.

Deelee

Deelee

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Deelee
Actually, my motor-vehicle has a full tank. But the news is reporting runs on gasoline. Should I start filling up non-approved containers with unleaded auto-gas? Any other PoA members seeing gas lines and/or shortages?

First toilet paper. Now gas. What next? Damn hackers.
 
"Damn hoarders" is probably more accurate. Reports are that gas stations have sold 3x the normal amount over the last 2–3 days. Citgo is out of premium in Fairfax, VA, and out of regular in Richmond. I saw a photo of a couple with 20, 5-gallon cans in their minivan... That's like 4 extra tankfuls.
 
Deelee said:
Should I start filling up non-approved containers with unleaded auto-gas?
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Yes! Definitely! For sure! As much as you can as often as you can!

Oh by the way, I have a few gallons to sell you...
 
Guess they can store the 100 gallons next to the racks of toilet paper they surely still have in their garage. Just saw a news helicopter shot of cars lined up 20 deep to get Costco gas. Costco has gas... who knew.
 
Gassed up the car and put 10 gallons in the airplane Monday. Should hold me until next week.
 
.

I must confess I get some satisfaction from the hacked pipeline situation.

The Greens have been thwarting every attempt to build new pipelines .... maybe they will finally grasp how important pipelines are to them.

If a million greens could not get gasoline for their cars it would be fun to watch them grovel.
 
wsuffa said:
"Damn hoarders" is probably more accurate. Reports are that gas stations have sold 3x the normal amount over the last 2–3 days. Citgo is out of premium in Fairfax, VA, and out of regular in Richmond. I saw a photo of a couple with 20, 5-gallon cans in their minivan... That's like 4 extra tankfuls.
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I hope that one of them spills.
 
A Martin said:
If a million greens could not get gasoline for their cars it would be fun to watch them grovel.
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Nope. They’ll just work even harder to force us off of oil. And I don’t think that’s a bad idea at all... I just haven’t seen any great and realistic ideas for the “how” part.
 
I topped off my car this morning before work. Can usually get about a week out of one tank, so hopefully I’ll be good to go. Went back this evening with a 5gal jug and the closest station to the house was out of gasoline and just had diesel, so I was SOL.
 
Every station around here that still has gas has a line of dozens of cars queuing up. It looks like the gas shortages of 197X.
 
Uh oh. How long before this ends? The Great Toilet Paper Hoarding of 2020 seemed to go on forever. Let us all hope this ends soon. I live 40 minutes from the hangar! That takes fuel, people.
 
I drove to the airport after work to take the plane for fuel. on the way there and back there was a massive line out of one of the gas stations that backed up into the main street. there was no line for avgas, which was kinda nice.
 
All normal in OK. I just put $120 worth of diesel (41 gallons) in the Excursion yesterday, but that was just because it was about 40 miles to empty. Don't think the pipeline is affecting much in the south-central US that I've heard.
 
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Yeah, it's the main pipeline that supplies gasoline to the east coast from Texas to northern NJ. Read a couple of articles that say service is expected to be restored by week-end. Lucky me, I have a full tank. Wife has 3/4.
 
Deelee said:
Yeah, it's the main pipeline that supplies gasoline to the east coast from Texas to northern NJ. Read a couple of articles that say service is expected to be restored by week-end.
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The articles I read said they "hoped" service will be restored by the end of the week. The question is whether they are saying that to calm people's nerves, or because they think they can get 'er done.

My guess is the pipeline is shut off because the pipeline company's tracking and billing systems are down. They could probably pump fuel, but wouldn't have billing data, and wouldn't be able to guarantee that you got your desired grade of whatever is going through the pipeline.
 
This will be over much faster than people realize. It's a hack, not a pipeline failure or rupture. The industry will keep moving product out of the Gulf Coast refining centers by rail, barge and road tanker as shutting down a refinery and then restarting it is a major operation. The hoarding response is just making the situation worse than it should have been.

It's mostly the eastern part of PADD 3 and the south-central part of PADD 1 that's under stress. Since much of the supply comes from the western part of PADD 3 some States will see road tankered and barged products fill some of the gap to help keep the refineries from backing up (PADD stands for Petroleum Administration for Defense Districts - the lower 48 is broken up into 5 of these).

These fragilities in our current production and distribution system are a function of major changes in the industry over the decades. In 1982 there were more than 300 operating refineries scattered all over the USA. Today there are only 135, and they are more concentrated geographically. Environmental regulations, operating permit renewal challenges and the economics of retooling refineries to handle a crude slate that was slowly becoming heavier and higher sulfur content resulted in new investment being concentrated in a smaller number of larger capacity refineries. Scores of the small regional refineries shuttered.

I've been 44 years in the crazy energy business, and watching as things become more "efficient" and much more vulnerable to minor disruption such as this single pipeline issue creating problems across such a broad swath of the nation.
 
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kyleb said:
The articles I read said they "hoped" service will be restored by the end of the week. The question is whether they are saying that to calm people's nerves, or because they think they can get 'er done.

My guess is the pipeline is shut off because the pipeline company's tracking and billing systems are down. They could probably pump fuel, but wouldn't have billing data, and wouldn't be able to guarantee that you got your desired grade of whatever is going through the pipeline.
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Billing? I don't think so. No, they could not pump fuel.

The entire line, as most major pipelines today, is a highly automated operation run (most often) from a single operations center. All the pumps, automated valving, tankage inventory management, mass flow balancing for leak detection (which they can't legally operate without), batch scheduling, energy consumption management and such over 5500 miles of network is what the hackers compromised. It is a network of sensors, meters, computing power, software, digital data transmission and telecommunications over a huge area.

Every major gas, oil & refined product pipeline or power transmission grid is run this way. The largest one I've seen was in the Persian Gulf when I lived in the Middle East - there was a wall of screens 50 meters long and more than 100 operator workstations running the whole thing.
 
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Panic, the direct result of

1. Breathless reporting creating a crisis where none exists, and
2. Brainless, selfish sheeple filling when they don't need to and hoarding.

Just like when there was a perceived shortage of gasoline after Hurricane Harvey - news outlets reported that some refineries had shut down, and that shortages could occur; local TV station in Dallas hunted down one (1) gas station that was out of gas and led with that story in the morning news, flogging the story. And, the race was on.

People waiting in line for hours to buy gas topping-off their car that was 1/2 full; people buying out all the gas cans at every store that sold them, to fill them up; people putting gasoline into garbage barrels.

My own sister called me and asked if she would hurt her husband's car by putting regular instead of premium - I asked her how much had been in the tank before she added the gas, and she said "...a little over 1/2 tank." I asked her why she was filling it up, then, when hubby was out of state, and she said she had heard that there was a shortage of gasoline. I asked her if they were traveling soon, and she told me that they were off to Colorado the next day. on the airlines.

In disgust, I told her that she, and people like her, was the reason for the "shortage." She wasn't happy, but self-examination ain't always easy.

Before the "shortage," I had about 5/8 tank in my truck; when ready gas availability was restored, I had 3/8 tank. Woop.
 
^^^ This.
Doesn't cost any more to make a habit of running on the top half of the tank as the bottom half.

Now please excuse me as I have to go and check my t-paper inventory.
 
I need gas. The gas station I have enough fuel to reach has no fuel. Guess I’m not going anywhere but it’s ok. I have plenty of bourbon so I don’t need to leave the house. I am a little concerned because my inside man at the liquor store told me they got in a case of my favorite Macallan fine oak. I hope they don’t sell it all before it get fuel.
 
Tarheelpilot said:
...I am a little concerned because my inside man at the liquor store told me they got in a case of my favorite Macallan fine oak. I hope they don’t sell it all before it get fuel.
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I'd be ordering up an Uber.;)
 
As of 10pm Tues night, they reported 60% of gas stations in Raleigh are out of gas, the hardest hit area. That will obviously rise by the end of the week.

I’m supposed to pick up my son from school Friday. They may extend the dorm move out time because of this.
 
A Martin said:
.

I must confess I get some satisfaction from the hacked pipeline situation.

The Greens have been thwarting every attempt to build new pipelines .... maybe they will finally grasp how important pipelines are to them.

If a million greens could not get gasoline for their cars it would be fun to watch them grovel.
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I think that you give them to much credit for having brains. Critical thinking is not their strong suite. The eco warrior thing is a religion to them
 
Deelee said:
Uh oh. How long before this ends? The Great Toilet Paper Hoarding of 2020 seemed to go on forever. Let us all hope this ends soon. I live 40 minutes from the hangar! That takes fuel, people.
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Be glad the pipeline is not a, uh, non-private sector operation. Then we would be in for it.
 
Tarheelpilot said:
If you come across the triple finish of that bottle I would highly recommend it to you. Same as your bottle but gets another finish in bourbon barrels. Much smoother and adds some vanilla and sweet notes. I buy and enjoy both but prefer the triple finish.


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$Wow$! Rich pilots.
And then I looked at the 30 year stuff.
 
A Martin said:
.

I must confess I get some satisfaction from the hacked pipeline situation.

The Greens have been thwarting every attempt to build new pipelines .... maybe they will finally grasp how important pipelines are to them.

If a million greens could not get gasoline for their cars it would be fun to watch them grovel.
Click to expand...
Doesn't matter how many pipelines they build if the security infrastructure around the controller software is inadequate.
 
The systems controlling the pipeline from Texas to NJ were hacked and shutdown. That's the immediate cause of this particular shortage.
I'm taking bets that there will be other "problems" forcing shortages and rising fuel prices.
 
DaleB said:
Nope. They’ll just work even harder to force us off of oil. And I don’t think that’s a bad idea at all... I just haven’t seen any great and realistic ideas for the “how” part.
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It might take 100-200 years, but we'll eventually run out any way.
 
The "work from home" infrastructure is gone already? There isn't a need for everyone to drive to work everyday, the pandemic just proved that. They could WFH and save their gas.
 
Shepherd said:
The systems controlling the pipeline from Texas to NJ were hacked and shutdown. That's the immediate cause of this particular shortage.
I'm taking bets that there will be other "problems" forcing shortages and rising fuel prices.
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The people whose headquarters are under KDEN are already working on it.
 
flhrci said:
It might take 100-200 years, but we'll eventually run out any way.
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We will probably be largely off the stuff before that happens. That's the typical pattern for energy sources throughout human history.
The Peak Oil frenzy about 15 years ago was hilarious. We were in no danger of running out of the stuff. We're just running out of the cheaper sources of it - peak cheap oil.
A year ago the spot momentarily went negative due to rapid onset COVID related demand destruction. Followed by an incredible round of supply destruction. That set the stage for the $65-per-barrel-headed-to-$80 we are in today. It will take a while for supply to respond and bring the price back down, especially in the face of active discouragement of investment capital from politicians, central bankers and some of the Davos crowd.

If we want to have any hope of improving middle class incomes and living standards we need a source of abundant and economical energy to create the electrical power to drive the "new" economy. Right now that's probably natural gas. Maybe nuclear makes a comeback and advances with better, safer technology. Hydrogen might be a first order derivative of these two. The underlying austerity message that accompanies much of the zero-carbon debate won't get us there.
 
Unfortunately my wife's car is now below 1/4 tank, so I'll have to go wait in line with all of the dumbasses.
 
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