Thinking about getting gas. Then Ranting.

Shepherd said:
The systems controlling the pipeline from Texas to NJ were hacked and shutdown.
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From my experience, security controls on industrial control systems are notoriously weak (they’ve never really needed any historically). Of course, it’s equally hard to deliver a payload to those systems. Think Stuxnet (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stuxnet?wprov=sfti1).

GRG55 said:
A year ago the spot momentarily went negative due to rapid onset COVID related demand destruction.
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If I recall, they ran out (were running out) of storage at Cushing, where WTI contracts are delivered.

It gets me thinking, if there were supply interruptions, how long until 100LL tanks run dry? I have to imagine some airports see so little traffic that they would have month(s) of fuel on hand? It’s not too late to cut out your catalytic converters and run 100LL in your cars! ;)
 
I have my first motorcycle rally in Robbinsville NC, starting next Thursday. I hope that this is resolved by then because I can’t get there and back on one tank. I thought about filling the transfer tank that I use for the plane. But I didn’t want to be one of ‘those people’.
 
kaiser said:
...If I recall, they ran out (were running out) of storage at Cushing, where WTI contracts are delivered.
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It started with retail and industrial/commercial demand falling off rapidly with the lockdowns. That then backed up through the wholesale racks to the refinery complex, then upstream into the crude distribution system (of which Cushing is a highly visible part) and finally all the way back to significant amounts production being curtailed at the wellhead. That all happened remarkably quickly.

Shutting in production reduces cashflow and capital investment, which then backs up into the drilling and completions activity - rigs get laid down, frac spreads get parked and experienced workers (directional drillers, geologists, geophysicists, engineers, and a host of others) lose their jobs. All the suppliers to the industry got hammered - everything from drill bits and well casing to the manufacturers of BOPs, line pipe and valves. Some have disappeared forever, as their banks pulled their operating credit lines.

That set the stage for the current price cycle...which is shaping up to be a doozy.
In my 44 years in this biz I've been through a cycle or three, but this is one for the record books.
 
GRG55 said:
It started with retail and industrial/commercial demand falling off rapidly with the lockdowns. That then backed up through the wholesale racks to the refinery complex, then upstream into the crude distribution system (of which Cushing is a highly visible part) and finally all the way back to significant amounts production being curtailed at the wellhead. That all happened remarkably quickly.

Shutting in production reduces cashflow and capital investment, which then backs up into the drilling and completions activity - rigs get laid down, frac spreads get parked and experienced workers (directional drillers, geologists, geophysicists, engineers, and a host of others) lose their jobs. All the suppliers to the industry got hammered - everything from drill bits and well casing to the manufacturers of BOPs, line pipe and valves.

That set the stage for the current price cycle...which is shaping up to be a doozy.
In my 44 years in this biz I've been through a cycle or three, but this is one for the record books.
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Back in college when I was taking a Process Analysis class, we talked through all sorts of manufacturing and distribution processes and the key factors that cause them to backlog. Then at the end of everything, the instructor said "OK. For constant feed processes like pipelines, throw all of that other stuff out the window. Pipelines have to run. If they don't run, all heck breaks loose, so just don't stop the pipeline."
 
It was a zoo here at many stations. The one at Costco was so bad the police were called in. Oddly, the pumps at the Teeter didn't even have a line (all full, but I pulled into an empty pump with little delay). I figured it was no big thing, this is a transitory disruption and if push comes to shove, the Volt can make it back and forth to the store on a charge.
 
wsuffa said:
"Damn hoarders" is probably more accurate. Reports are that gas stations have sold 3x the normal amount over the last 2–3 days. Citgo is out of premium in Fairfax, VA, and out of regular in Richmond. I saw a photo of a couple with 20, 5-gallon cans in their minivan... That's like 4 extra tankfuls.
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This is why anti-gouging laws are dumb. Let the price spike and that behavior stops. That, and people that really need gas can still get it, albeit and an increased price.
 
PPC1052 said:
This is why anti-gouging laws are dumb. Let the price spike and that behavior stops. That, and people that really need gas can still get it, albeit and an increased price.
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By the time those laws are broken, its too late any way. Intent of those laws good, implementation, poor and not thought out.
 
flhrci said:
By the time those laws are broken, its too late any way. Intent of those laws good, implementation, poor and not thought out.
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It's not just the implementation that's poor. The intent of those laws is poor and not thought out as well.
 
Here’s an idea, stopping using crappy Microsoft Windows for anything mission critical.
 
A big part of the problem is that a lot of truck drivers (you know, the ones that drive the tanker trucks) decided to retire in the pandemic and have not been replaced. Of course, service workers aren't important, everyone needs a college education to get a higher-level, good paying job and all that happy horses**t. No truck drivers, no trucks for over-the-road and last-mile deliveries, and no gas for you.

Plenty of blame to go around on this, from the hackers to the IT guys & corporate folks that didn't harden the networks to "efficiency" to government policy. And yes, Pa Kettle that has engaged in panic buying.
 
flhrci said:
It might take 100-200 years, but we'll eventually run out any way.
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We'll never run out of oil. Someday, technology will fail to keep up and price will increase to the point that it's not worth extracting what's left. Alternatives will be cheaper.

PPC1052 said:
This is why anti-gouging laws are dumb. Let the price spike and that behavior stops. That, and people that really need gas can still get it, albeit and an increased price.
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And, the high price will incentivize people to conserve what they have. But, we have to make that illegal.
 
wsuffa said:
A big part of the problem is that a lot of truck drivers (you know, the ones that drive the tanker trucks) decided to retire in the pandemic and have not been replaced. Of course, service workers aren't important, everyone needs a college education to get a higher-level, good paying job and all that happy horses**t. No truck drivers, no trucks for over-the-road and last-mile deliveries, and no gas for you...
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Hmmm. I had heard they were all being retrained for high paying jobs in the new, green economy...installing solar panels or some such. :rolleyes:
 
Not exactly hoarding, but…

We have to drive to Atlanta tomorrow, then the following day to the airport there to drop off Karen, then back to the Knoxville area. The folks we’re staying with called and warned “Atlanta is out of gas”. Our Clarity goes the first 40 to 50 miles on battery, then gets about 42 mpg, but only has a 7 gal tank. Out of an abundance of caution did fill up 2 5gal cans yesterday which we’ll carry along on a hitch carrier. Also topped off our truck. Anecdotally, the nearest gas station to us in Lenoir City was out of gas, but another nearby station still had it.
 
FastEddieB said:
Not exactly hoarding, but…

We have to drive to Atlanta tomorrow, then the following day to the airport there to drop off Karen, then back to the Knoxville area. The folks we’re staying with called and warned “Atlanta is out of gas”. Our Clarity goes the first 40 to 50 miles on battery, then gets about 42 mpg, but only has a 7 gal tank. Out of an abundance of caution did fill up 2 5gal cans yesterday which we’ll carry along on a hitch carrier. Also topped off our truck. Anecdotally, the nearest gas station to us in Lenoir City was out of gas, but another nearby station still had it.
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I live just south of Atlanta and every gas station I pass has no gas. GA has declared a state of emergency. The 5 most affected states are GA,SC,NC,VA, and FL. And we're supposed to head to FL a week from tomorrow. But I have read, well at least on Monday I read that it should be handled by the end of the week.
 
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wsuffa said:
A big part of the problem is that a lot of truck drivers (you know, the ones that drive the tanker trucks) decided to retire in the pandemic and have not been replaced. Of course, service workers aren't important, everyone needs a college education to get a higher-level, good paying job and all that happy horses**t. No truck drivers, no trucks for over-the-road and last-mile deliveries, and no gas for you.

Plenty of blame to go around on this, from the hackers to the IT guys & corporate folks that didn't harden the networks to "efficiency" to government policy. And yes, Pa Kettle that has engaged in panic buying.
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YES .... and on top of that not every truck driver can haul fuel .... special category , takes training ... and not many want to do it ... plus they like to use experienced "mature" drivers ... thus the younger ones cannot jump in to fill the demand.
 
kaiser said:
It gets me thinking, if there were supply interruptions, how long until 100LL tanks run dry? I have to imagine some airports see so little traffic that they would have month(s) of fuel on hand? It’s not too late to cut out your catalytic converters and run 100LL in your cars! ;)
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We've had a lot of catalytic converter thefts in Denver lately -- one woman had hers cut off her car while parked at the grocery store and they just arrested a guy with a stolen truck and it had 20 catalytic converters in the back. If mine gets stolen, I'll just run 100LL haha.
 
PPC1052 said:
This is why anti-gouging laws are dumb. Let the price spike and that behavior stops. That, and people that really need gas can still get it, albeit and an increased price.
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Or we could teach economics in school, but that's probably a racist curriculum these days. :D :loco:
 
The fit hit the Shan here - dozens of stations out of gas and lines for blocks. But still not as bad as NC as far as I can tell.

Whadda mess. And big government hasn't solved it yet.

I can only hope that the hoarders won't have anywhere else to put it and that will help restore some normalcy. But then again, I can see some of them turning their TP rolls into Molotov cocktails and launching them on a javelin made from lumber.
 
I haven't owned a car that runs on gasoline in over 4 years.

I have a diesel. Amusingly when the stations here ran out of gas a couple times over the last year they still had diesel. Not that it matters since I fuel up at cardlock anyway.
 
A Martin said:
YES .... and on top of that not every truck driver can haul fuel .... special category , takes training ... and not many want to do it ... plus they like to use experienced "mature" drivers ... thus the younger ones cannot jump in to fill the demand.
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And the truck driver training schools didn't train any new drivers last year due to COVID worries plus a lack of demand for drivers.
 
Must be a regional thing. I went to get gas yesterday and fill up a couple of the 5 gallon cans I use for various small engines around here... same as I always do not out of any panic.

Gas across the river in MO was 2.69 and it wasn’t particularly busy. Nothing seemed the least bit abnormal.
 
Can't they just open a valve by hand?
 
Sac Arrow said:
Can't they just open a valve by hand?
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From what I’ve read, they began doing some manual operation on Monday, but don’t expect to fully resume normal operations until Friday or in to the weekend.
 
cowman said:
Must be a regional thing. I went to get gas yesterday and fill up a couple of the 5 gallon cans I use for various small engines around here... same as I always do not out of any panic.

Gas across the river in MO was 2.69 and it wasn’t particularly busy. Nothing seemed the least bit abnormal.
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It's an east coast thing. Colonial Pipeline area from Texas to Delaware/Pennsylvania.
 
Wife found a station that was allowing $20 worth at a time. That should be enough for her to get the kids to/from piano lessons this afternoon. Otherwise, all the stations around us (southwest of ATL) are MT.
 
FastEddieB said:
Not exactly hoarding, but…

We have to drive to Atlanta tomorrow, then the following day to the airport there to drop off Karen, then back to the Knoxville area. The folks we’re staying with called and warned “Atlanta is out of gas”. Our Clarity goes the first 40 to 50 miles on battery, then gets about 42 mpg, but only has a 7 gal tank. Out of an abundance of caution did fill up 2 5gal cans yesterday which we’ll carry along on a hitch carrier. Also topped off our truck. Anecdotally, the nearest gas station to us in Lenoir City was out of gas, but another nearby station still had it.
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FastEddieB said:
Not exactly hoarding, but…

We have to drive to Atlanta tomorrow, then the following day to the airport there to drop off Karen, then back to the Knoxville area. The folks we’re staying with called and warned “Atlanta is out of gas”. Our Clarity goes the first 40 to 50 miles on battery, then gets about 42 mpg, but only has a 7 gal tank. Out of an abundance of caution did fill up 2 5gal cans yesterday which we’ll carry along on a hitch carrier. Also topped off our truck. Anecdotally, the nearest gas station to us in Lenoir City was out of gas, but another nearby station still had it.
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I don't know if this will help you, depends on where in Atlanta you're staying, but I have a 4.8 kw Level 2 charging setup on the west side of Roswell. Also, there are a couple of 6.6 kw Chargepoint stations in front of City Hall in Roswell. I could meet you either at my house or at City Hall, you could charge the Clarity and I could run you two down to the MARTA station, you could get to the airport that way. I could then pick you up from MARTA when you get back. If you used the 6.6 kw chargers, you'd be close to a full battery when you got back.
 
Thanks for the offer. Much appreciated!

We’ll be charging overnight at our friend’s* house, so we have that covered. With the gas motor on board, we should have plenty of fuel if we need it.


*I say “friend” but this is actually the half-brother I discovered through Ancestry, which I mentioned here. And the purpose of the trip is to meet a half-sister we have in common. At least a handful more to meet, and that’s just the ones we know of!
 
Except for costing over a Dollar more per gallon than it was in January, the Diesel situation here in Central Texas has not changed.

I also have a car that runs on waste ATF or vegetable oil, but it is in storage...
 
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