Thinking about an ATV/Tow-Behind for the RV

Ted DuPuis said:
The Liberty is kinda junky. If it had the diesel (you're correct - VM Mottori) that does make it more interesting, and I'd not be entirely opposed to one there. The real problem I find with any Jeep is that they're bought as normal daily drivers and treated as such, so the interiors are completely trashed by the time the resale gets down enough.
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I drove a Jeep Liberty as a rental from Denver to Grand Junction, then locally around Grand Junction. I would never get one. It had an awful turning radius, but many vehicles do, compared to the Subaru.
 
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weilke said:
I have driven a Jeep Liberty as a loaner and I believe the transfer case has a 'N' position. Not sure how good those are 'off road'. You can even get a diesel (iirc a VM Mottori), but those are probably hard to find by now as the rural mail carriers snatch them up when they become available.
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The Jeep Liberty is an awful idea. I've driven two for a week each as rentals when I was in remote areas and they had nothing else available (gas version not diesel). It's what people get when they can't afford the rest of Jeeps offerings.
 
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SoonerAviator said:
The Jeep Liberty is an awful idea. I've driven two for a week each as rentals when I was in remote areas and they had nothing else available (gas version not diesel). It's what people get when they can't afford the rest of Jeeps offerings.
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I knew one person who bought a diesel Liberty because every engine he owned was diesel, and that was how he was able to have a diesel daily driver that worked for him. But yeah, it's not a real Jeep.

I seem to have made a deal on a vehicle... I'll post pics when I take delivery. :)
 
SoonerAviator said:
The Jeep Liberty is an awful idea. I've driven two for a week each as rentals when I was in remote areas and they had nothing else available (gas version not diesel). It's what people get when they can't afford the rest of Jeeps offerings.
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The one I have driven is 15 year old and a loaner that our A&P has at its shop. 'Uninspiring' is the worst I could say about the thing. The only reason to buy it would be for the 'N' on the transfer case and the fact that its a cheap car with cheap parts.
 
Ted DuPuis said:
The Liberty is kinda junky. If it had the diesel (you're correct - VM Mottori) that does make it more interesting, and I'd not be entirely opposed to one there. The real problem I find with any Jeep is that they're bought as normal daily drivers and treated as such, so the interiors are completely trashed by the time the resale gets down enough.
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Hey, I liked my 14 years with my Liberty. But yea, I didn't treat it as a 'fancy' car, the leather held up pretty well though.
 
weilke said:
The one I have driven is 15 year old and a loaner that our A&P has at its shop. 'Uninspiring' is the worst I could say about the thing. The only reason to buy it would be for the 'N' on the transfer case and the fact that its a cheap car with cheap parts.
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I'm certainly not saying the Liberty won't last. It's just not built to do anything that other Jeeps are made to do. It works fine as a daily driver and has relatively few complexities that could render it inoperable. However, ground clearance is poor, most are 2WD and the ones that aren't don't have much in the way of axle size or suspension capability to do more off- roading than park on the grass at a high school football game. Uninspired should have been the vehicle name instead of Liberty, lol.
 
Picked it up :)

‘97 Land Rover Discovery, a G4 Challenge replica car. Only 72k miles, well taken care of.

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Are you planning on trailering it?
 
Trailer parts are cheaper than Differential parts. and you can back up
 
How far did you go to pick it up? I don’t recognize the gas station.
 
MIFlyer said:
Congratulations! When is your Black Hills trip?
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Next week, leave Tuesday or Wednesday.

Tom-D said:
Trailer parts are cheaper than Differential parts. and you can back up
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Sure, but requires a place to park the trailer. Parts supposedly show up tomorrow for the tow bar bits.

Matthew said:
How far did you go to pick it up? I don’t recognize the gas station.
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I picked it up in Manhattan KS, the station is one of the turnpike rest areas.
 
What are the logos on the side?

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tmyers said:
What are the logos on the side?
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If you look up Land Rover G4 Challenge that’s the background of the stickers. This is not a genuine car but a “tribute” car, so made to look like it. People either love it or hate it.
 
Put about 100 miles on the Rover today and poked at it a bit to see if I could identify problems.

The AC was low on Freon, which looks like it’s caused by a leaking compressor (visibly so) and shrader valves (audible). But after being topped off it did fine the rest of the day, so that’s on the list for eventually.

I bought a couple gallons of gear oil for the diffs and transfer case, and will do a pan drain and fill on the transmission (will change the filter too just not before this trip).

When I got home from the first outing I found a coolant hose had burst - tiny one for the heater core that I’m told nobody changes. I don’t know why as it takes 5 minutes to change and standard 3/4” hose will do it, so I took care of that, filled the system, and went on another drive to see if it seemed fixed or if something else would blow up. It seemed fine. The other hoses look and feel newer but this one got some reason didn’t seem to match.

Other than a slight pull to the right the car drives well and I see a lot of common issues that have already been taken care of on it.

I figure tomorrow if I can at least do the transmission pan at some point then I can drive it on Monday - I’m dropping the kids at the babysitter that day for a wrenching day to get everything finished up before our RV trip starting Wednesday. Then that will get the semi-new transmission fluid circulated for another drain and fill. Getting a filter local is harder so I’ll order that with some other parts.
 
Which tow bar did you get?
how much of a Pita is the wiring harness to hook up the lights.
We added the rear lights to the M/H circuit the same as a trailer.
 
Ted DuPuis said:
When I got home from the first outing I found a coolant hose had burst - tiny one for the heater core that I’m told nobody changes. I don’t know why as it takes 5 minutes to change and standard 3/4” hose will do it, so I took care of that, filled the system, and went on another drive to see if it seemed fixed or if something else would blow up. It seemed fine. The other hoses look and feel newer but this one got some reason didn’t seem to match.
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I assume the D1 is similar to my D2 was, bleeding cooling system after a flush/hose change/whatever was a huge pain without a vacuum filler. Every time I thought I had it, another air bubble appeared.
 
jrcox19 said:
I assume the D1 is similar to my D2 was, bleeding cooling system after a flush/hose change/whatever was a huge pain without a vacuum filler. Every time I thought I had it, another air bubble appeared.
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I was somewhat worried about that, but this hose that blew was at the top and it didn’t lose much coolant at all. Drove from my house to IXD to retrieve some things from the hangar after and no issues - even had my OBD 2 Bluetooth gizmo in to watch the temp. Highest I saw was 210 but for the AC on on a 93 day with the components being unknown overall condition, doesn’t seem awful. Higher than I’d like to see, but not awful.
 
Tom-D said:
Which tow bar did you get?
how much of a Pita is the wiring harness to hook up the lights.
We added the rear lights to the M/H circuit the same as a trailer.
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And don't forget a braking system, which one are you going with?

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It came with a Roadmaster tow bar and a brake buddy brake system. I forget the model numbers but they were all already integrated and working with the RV. I got the right front bits for the tow bar and will install them tomorrow (looks like it should be about a half hour job). I also need to install the exhaust brake on the RV. What I might do after is hook up the Rover to the RV and tow the pair around for a short test drive just to see how the system does.
 
Cool, so Mt Rishmote trip, Wednesday?

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Ted DuPuis said:
It came with a Roadmaster tow bar and a brake buddy brake system. I forget the model numbers but they were all already integrated and working with the RV. I got the right front bits for the tow bar and will install them tomorrow (looks like it should be about a half hour job). I also need to install the exhaust brake on the RV. What I might do after is hook up the Rover to the RV and tow the pair around for a short test drive just to see how the system does.
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Advice..... make wide turns while towing, square turns exceeds the turn radius of the Tow'ed. learned that the hard way.

the hang over allows the towed to be 90 Degrees to the coach.
 
Tom-D said:
Advice..... make wide turns while towing, square turns exceeds the turn radius of the Tow'ed. learned that the hard way.

the hang over allows the towed to be 90 Degrees to the coach.
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Is that any different than with any conventional
toad? I’m just thinking about the pivot point being the ball on the bumper, but I’ve also towed steerable mobilized equipment on a tow bar connected via pintle hook.
 
TCABM said:
Is that any different than with any conventional
toad? I’m just thinking about the pivot point being the ball on the bumper, but I’ve also towed steerable mobilized equipment on a tow bar connected via pintle hook.
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M/H s are usually longer behind the axels.

and all of sudden you are pulling the Tow'ed sideways

we like the trailer
 
Tom-D said:
M/H s are usually longer behind the axels.

and all of sudden you are pulling the Tow'ed sideways

we like the trailer
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Ok, now I get what you were trying to say. The large rear overhang drags the nose of the toad as you swing the coach around a sharp turn. Does it just steer the toad the wrong way, or actually skid the tires across the pavement?
 
Bill Jennings said:
Ok, now I get what you were trying to say. The large rear overhang drags the nose of the toad as you swing the coach around a sharp turn. Does it just steer the toad the wrong way, or actually skid the tires across the pavement?
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It will skid the tire on the jeep.
 
Got the tow bar bits installed today. Unfortunately I didn’t get to tow it behind the RV to test things as I had a few issues on the RV maintenance for the day (I’ll post those in the RV thread). It looks like it’s all going to work out well. Hopefully tomorrow I can hook it up to the RV and drive it around a bit to make sure I’m happy with how it works.

But I drove the toad to the Cat dealer to buy the parts I needed after changing the transmission fluid again and the transfer case fluid, and it performed well. So at this point I think it should be fine for the trip at least.
 
OBTW,, towing equipment is expensive.. do not leave your stuff out. for the bar,,use a good bolt and self locking nut.(not a pin) brake equipment keep in a lockable storage locker.
 
Tom-D said:
Advice..... make wide turns while towing, square turns exceeds the turn radius of the Tow'ed. learned that the hard way.

the hang over allows the towed to be 90 Degrees to the coach.
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Interesting, so far I have not run into this, maybe I don't have as much overhang as you. I know the combination of the drop hitch and the long stinger on the Blue-Ox makes for a long distance between the coach and the towed, maybe that's why I have not encountered this. I was thinking of drilling another set of holes to shorten the stinger, maybe I should leave well enough alone.
 
Tom-D said:
OBTW,, towing equipment is expensive.. do not leave your stuff out. for the bar,,use a good bolt and self locking nut.(not a pin) brake equipment keep in a lockable storage locker.
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Absolutely, everything gets locked in the MH, I have considered buying duplicate pins a keepers just in case, but where do you stop, worst thing would be someone stealing the Aluminum attachment tabs.
 
The Disco has proven to be a good tow-behind thus far. Given its role, my #1 priority is that the wheels don't fall off (literally) and similarly that the steering doesn't go bad. On the first trip rocks kicked up and broke the headlights. So I got a set of used headlights (plenty of Discos being parted out so that was cheap and simple) and they took all of 10 minutes to install, easy.

I did an oil change knowing how these old engines tend to sludge up and not knowing when the last one was done on it, and then tomorrow I'll change the transmission filter and pan gasket, and of course drain and refill the pan. I'm quite certain all of that was original.

I took a look at the exhaust since the rear muffler was rattling, wanting to see if I could bend something to make it stop. However when I hit the muffler I heard it rattling badly inside. That's not good. So out came the sawzall and I cut it out, to find chunks of the catalytic converters coming out in my hand. That's not a good sign. There's no check engine light indicating that the rear O2 sensors are telling the computer the cats are still functional, but what I want to make sure of now is that the cats are falling apart but not clogging the exhaust elsewhere. Those chunk were definitely restricting the exhaust flow through that rear muffler. I haven't driven it yet to see if there's a performance difference, so that will be interesting. The exhaust is original so I may be doing something there, although not before this next trip. For now, simple "fix" and we'll see what that does.

The coolant consumption is another issue I wanted to look into. The head gaskets were done recently but the car does consume a lot of coolant. Not through the exhaust, the smell is very much under the hood. Also no leaks on the ground. I tried pressurizing the system with a tester and it held just fine, indicating the problem may be just the radiator cap. A cap and expansion tank isn't much, so I'll probably just order those when I order new tie rod ends (and maybe a pitman arm which seems to be bad/loose) to make sure that none of those break. The Disco does need an alignment, and for how cheap OEM tie rods are and how many miles this thing gets towed behind the RV, may as well get those freshened up.
 
Funny. Saw one on the road in the same garish color scheme yesterday. Must have been a thing at one time.
 
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weilke said:
Funny. Saw one on the road in the same garish color scheme yesterday. Must have been a thing at one time.
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People either think it's really cool or hate it. We really like it, so that's all that really matters. So far it's been simple enough to work on although the transmission filter change is proving more challenging than it should be, thanks to the big support beam that blocks dropping the pan and their decision to have a return line bolted to the pan rather than to the transmission housing (which was seized). I would've finished it up yesterday but it started raining, so hopefully get to it sometime this week but it will depend on schedule and weather.
 
Well there's a new chapter in the Disco's life... and a new chapter in mine. I've moved into a less technical career path and I need something to keep the tinkering part of my brain active. I've been into off roading and overlanding for quite some time, but unfortunately my truck has to do triple duty, as an overlander, a truck and a daily driver. As a result it ends up being only OK at all three. Now I'll get to build a truly dedicated 4 wheeler/overlander and my daily driver truck can return to something less off-road oriented.

I've never been a big jeep fan as they're pretty common and 99% of them are mall crawlers. I'd love a Bronco but the budget is not going to allow that, especially as a toy. But the disco fit the bill, budget and drive for knowledge perfectly.

On a whim I ended up buying the Disco from Ted, and a couple weeks later I was down there with him pulling the engine and trans out to flat tow it home. Ted's keeping the engine for the potential to use in future projects of his, and as many many of his threads have chronicled, it's not a great fit for a rover. This build is going to require a manual as well, so I left him with the transmission to dispose of... though I got a hard lesson in unbolting the torque converter vs the starter ring gear :D:oops:

It was an uneventful tow home. My Ranger did great and as long as I kept it to a top speed of 65mph (due to the land rover getting less stable) everything was smooth sailing. I got it dropped off in the hangar, where despite not having an engine, or transmission it continues to leak oil.

A small list of what I plan to do is below, with a detailed list going into a thread of its own once I make progress, but the highlights are:

-Fully rebuilt axles, and regearing
-Snorkel & Fenders
-New Suspension & lift
-Ford Bronco drivetrain (2.3L Ecoboost + MT88 Manual Transmission)
-All the other bits to make it into a kickass off-roader

I had a great time hanging out with Ted and family on this project, and am looking forward to turning it into my own; all while chronicling it along the way.

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