Thinking About a New Roof

Ted

Ted

The pilot formerly known as Twin Engine Ted
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iFlyNothing
Our house is getting close to 20 years old, and as far as I know the roof is original. If it was redone at some point, it's greater than 9 years old since that's how long (almost) we've been here. My recollection is the disclosure when we bought the house said it was original. Although it's been in good shape, the other day while cleaning around the koi pond near the house my wife noticed that the gutter appeared to have shingle material flowing out of it. I can't say I'm surprised by this, and we've known that having the roof redone is on the list.

We intend on being here for the foreseeable future and, as is typical with Ted doing Ted things, I'd like to "upgrade". A new roof won't make the house go faster, but I am wondering if there are options available that I should consider that will improve insulation, since trying to keep the HVAC bills down is always nice.

I've never had to put a roof on a house before, and growing up in an apartment it wasn't something that we had to worry about, either.

Is there anything in particular that I should be looking for, brands or types I should look for, and for the Kansas City area folks, any recommendations on people to call for a quote?
 
I'm going through the process of getting a new roof now. My main comment is that it "kills" me to pay this much money for stupid shingles that last no longer than they do. If I were planning to stay in the house ...AND if I didn't live in an HOA that won't allow it anyway, I'd seriously consider a metal roof. Even the old fashioned cheap 5-V sheets like they used to put on barns will last several multiples of a shingle roof.

I'd casually consider looking at those Tesla solar shingles, but I'd have concerns about long term life and reliability.
 
I am no expert but did the roof on my previous house twice. I lived there 28 years. But is was also only about 1000 sqft of roof.
I just used Home Depot 25year shingles both times.
1st time I stripped the double layer of singles off the south side only. Put Tar Paper down and shingles, Borrowed nail gun from a contractor relative.
2nd time was during Covid, had lots of time and north side was getting pretty bad with the shingles curling up. So stripped the double Layer off the south side. replaced with 25year shingles, then I put a 2nd layer of singles on the southside. Bought a Nail Gun from Harbor Freight and then sold it to a friend building a house. Bought the 25year shingles from a roofing supply place, they delivered and put them on the roof for me.

Notes: was an old house with 1x12's under the singles. This meant the nails actually grabbed it better than the wafer board typically used now and makes getting the old shingles off more challenging. Mostly I used an old square shovel with a V slot cut in the middle and a 1/2" piece of rebar welded to the bottom to give it a fulcrum to pry the nails out with. They make tools for doing this, but I am cheap and had the old shovel. I helped a friend strip his roof with the waferboard underneath, was much easier, but still work to remove the old shingles.

I have also installed some Metal roofing which I think is a lot more durable than the shingles and great for low sloped roofs. Steeper slopes would be more challenging.

Brian
 
I built my own house and one of the things I did was a standing seam metal roof. A light gray color. Shingles just absorb heat. The light gray I think reflects it. Don't know if it really helps or not. I'll never have to replace it, and since I plan on owning the place for more than the duration of shingles the cost made it worthwhile.

I did it mostly myself with tips from someone that does it for a living. My roof is a 6/12 pitch. They make overshoes with this sponge material. It's like you're wearing magnets.
 
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Maybe just because I live where I live but if it's damaged it should be covered by insurance. In Texas new roofs are kind of free.
 
And by free I mean they do all sorts of weird things so that you don't pay the deductible ( insurance fraud) and everybody's insurance goes up. We just had a little hail storm here last week and everybody's getting new roofs. So weird spring just started and unless water's coming in I don't think it's all that critical to get it replaced.

Edit: ironically responding to this thread in the middle of a hail storm whilst listening to tornado sirens.

Screenshot_20240401_194930_Gallery.jpg
 
If I had to replace our roof today, I’d be finding a GAF installer. Most shingle warranties I’ve seen state the warranty is reduced/pro-rated if not installed by an approved roofer. GAF at least allows you to find an approved contractor from their homepage and the have several lines to choose from.

GAF Roofing: North America’s Leading Roofing Manufacturer

More homes and businesses in the US are protected by a GAF roof than by any other product. Learn about our residential and commercial roofing systems today.
www.gaf.com www.gaf.com

Note that we’re bound to asphalt shingles in our neighborhood. If the elevation is right for the style, I’d likely be all over a metal roof given the choice. Metal roofs can reflect the heat enough to reduce your summer electric bill by 10% or more.

The real question for me is whether you’ve already got ridge vents or not.
 
I can refer you to my roofer.

There are some shingles that claim to be reflective, I guess, and minimize heat buildup in the attic.

There are shingles that claim to be much longer life.

We’d been in our house maybe 10-15 years and got hit by a pretty heavy hailstorm. Because of shingle damage our insurance co prorated the roof. We went with a higher quality shingle, and the roofer added more roof vents, our roof wasn’t properly vented.

About 5 years later we got hit with hail again. We only had roof damage. Other houses on our street had broken windows and holes punched into siding and garage doors.

Someone asked us about our shingles, “Did you have 20 year or 30 year shingles?” I said we had “5 year shingles.”

I’ve noticed some granules starting to accumulate in the splash blocks below our downspouts, so we might need to start budgeting again.

I haven’t seen prices in a long time but I doubt the additional cost of energy saving shingles will pay for themselves. And the longer life shingles might gain you some life but all it takes is one bad storm to require replacement again. You watched a tornado roll right by shortly after you moved in, didn’t you?
 
Don't let the $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ to replace surprise you.

When I did my roof I was talked out of a metal roof, won't let that happen again.

My 30 year shingle roof cost 4000 to replace 9 years ago, now quoted at 13,000.

Getting bids for my moms manufactured house, 6 bids so far, 18k to 46K.
 
Racerx said:
I built my own house and one of the things I did was a standing seam metal roof.
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If you're into things that last forever, my understanding is that a standing seam metal roof is one of them.

Also, if you're planning on solar panels at some point, they can clamp to the seam rather than drilling lag bolts into your rafters.
 
The best roof is one without a hole in it. :) Anyway, the shingles only protect the important part. That part is the underlayment. The shingles can be a total mess and still protect the underlayment. The underlayment is the waterproofing material. Sometimes a felt type with Ice and rain close to the edges. Different places have different requirements. Metal roofs are mostly wonderful. Yes they make a bit of noise. And often they are put on with screws (WRONG). The metal expands and contracts at different rates from the house. thus the screws loosen, then snow sliding down the roof catch on the screws and pull them out. So you put in new screws and tighten the old ones. eventually they wear the holes in the roof and won't tighten anymore. So a standing seam roof with enclosed fasteners is the best metal roof. I have used Shefield metals in the past, and it was superior to others. I have no affiliations with them, just used their product. You need high temp underlayment and preferably sanded under a metal roof. Many roofs are unnecessarily replaced just because the shingles look bad or have some hail dents. Totally not necessary, just expensive. You can also put on a "cold" roof. So foam panels put on the roof. Usually at least 4 inches, then the shingles over that. Great insulation, but probably cost prohibitive in your area. WE are in a zone 7 climate, so we see them here.
 
asicer said:
If you're into things that last forever, my understanding is that a standing seam metal roof is one of them.

Also, if you're planning on solar panels at some point, they can clamp to the seam rather than drilling lag bolts into your rafters.
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They do make clamps, much like they make snow guards. I didn't opt for the guards and it's funny seeing it slough off. I dont use the front door so I dont have to shovel the 3 foot pile. As for solar, Im too shaded with an 80 dollar electric bill if I leave everything on and keep the house at 65 in The summer, so I'll never make up that cost delta.
 
Oldmanb777 said:
The best roof is one without a hole in it. :) Anyway, the shingles only protect the important part. That part is the underlayment. The shingles can be a total mess and still protect the underlayment. The underlayment is the waterproofing material. Sometimes a felt type with Ice and rain close to the edges. Different places have different requirements. Metal roofs are mostly wonderful. Yes they make a bit of noise. And often they are put on with screws (WRONG). The metal expands and contracts at different rates from the house. thus the screws loosen, then snow sliding down the roof catch on the screws and pull them out. So you put in new screws and tighten the old ones. eventually they wear the holes in the roof and won't tighten anymore. So a standing seam roof with enclosed fasteners is the best metal roof. I have used Shefield metals in the past, and it was superior to others. I have no affiliations with them, just used their product. You need high temp underlayment and preferably sanded under a metal roof. Many roofs are unnecessarily replaced just because the shingles look bad or have some hail dents. Totally not necessary, just expensive. You can also put on a "cold" roof. So foam panels put on the roof. Usually at least 4 inches, then the shingles over that. Great insulation, but probably cost prohibitive in your area. WE are in a zone 7 climate, so we see them here.
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I put a special snow and ice shield for my metal roof on the whole roof. 4 concealed clips that go over one seam of one panel. The next panel clicks over the clips. Having had it hail, it's quieter than when I had a skylight. But my attic insulation is 18" of cellulose over batts.

I went with Pac-clad because they were somewhat local to me.
 
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Local codes play a role in quotes, too. Some local codes don’t require some membranes or other water and ice protection, so the low-cost guys won’t quote you on it. If you get quotes that seem higher than others make sure you compare apples to apples.

When I first moved into the area in the mid-80s there was one developer that was building lots of subdivisions. His house designs had a very steep slope on the roof on the front side of the house. He had enough political pull to get local building codes changed on steep slopes. It allowed him to cut a lot of corners and save a lot of money. After he was built out the codes were changed back but a whole lot of people with roof leaks were out of luck.
 
The house is 32 years old. The shake roof was replaced about eight years ago. Your house is too new for a roof replacement Ted. Give it another ten years then rethink about it.
 
SixPapaCharlie said:
Maybe just because I live where I live but if it's damaged it should be covered by insurance. In Texas new roofs are kind of free.
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A few years ago a hurricane did some damage to the shingle roof. After the insurance adjuster left I went up and replaced a about a dozen tabs or so that had blown off. To my surprise the insurance check came and was enough to replace the shingle roof. I added a few dollars to that and had a metal roof installed.

If you can rebuild a bus, you can install a roof ... ;)
 
I have a new roof. It's one of the reasons why I don't have an airplane.

We had this one storm - water was pouring in like it was no one's business. We thought - ah ha! Insurance! Well, that didn't work. Something something something claim denied / rates increased. So we paid cash.

IIRC we got quotes from various places - each with their own preferred brand. We had brands that offered extra hail protection because it was rubberized or whatever. We ended up eliminating the brands which were from places that didn't have similar climate to hours.
 
I had our roof redone a few years back and they used GAF shingles. Home had asphalt shingles when I bought it, but apparently had a wood shake roof when it was first built. The insurance company was forced to replace all of the decking in order to bring the roof up to code for asphalt roofing. They installed a number of roof vents, but no ridge vents (which many advise against). I may have gone with a metal roof if I'd known enough about it at the time, but there's nothing wrong with our roof as it is.
 
When we finally replaced the original cedar shake roof on this house, we put on stone coated steel panels that look like tile. It will outlive us. We got a substantial discount on out home insurance because of it.

The wood roof was close to 30 years old when we replaced it.
 
Two years ago I personally reroofed my house. It was time, but I also did it partially as long term planning. I never intend to move, ever, so I took a week off of work, stripped it down to bare wood ( 6 layers deep, no typo, SIX layers of shingles) and installed 25 year flat three tab shingles. I figure I’m in my 40’s now and was able to do the work of tear down, they should get me by until I’m in my mid/late 60’s when I should still be able to put a second layer myself over top of them, and that should get me by longer than I will live, if I make into my 90’s +then I’ll just put a pan under the drips. But something to consider is the popular “architectural” style shingles cannot have a second layer put over top, they are a complete tear down every time. One thing I did notice though that I don’t like is once I took the weight of the six layer roof off my house doesn’t seem/feel as rock solid during extreme wind storms and drecheo’s as it did before. I kinda miss the thousands of pounds of asphalt armor it used to have. Doing it myself cut the price in half… and then moved the decimal point left one place compared to the cheapest quote I received.

Edit: I don’t like steel roofs, thermal expansion coefficient differential between steel and wood added to woods movement from moisture content change has in my experience in farm buildings make them leak around the fasteners. But here it can be -30 in the winter and 115 in the summer so it’s stressed to the extreme. If money was no object I’d go slate or lead in a heartbeat.
 
So a few comments bring up another question, if my roof is apparently still not super old at 20 years - at what point does a roof generally actually need to be replaced? Is some of the shingle material ending up in the gutters normal wear and tear?
 
Ted said:
So a few comments bring up another question, if my roof is apparently still not super old at 20 years - at what point does a roof generally actually need to be replaced? Is some of the shingle material ending up in the gutters normal wear and tear?
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If you’re seeing loose granules roofers will start trying to sell you a new roof - I don’t know if that’s a good judge of life expectancy or not. I expect some of that material to wear off over time as a normal sign of aging. But if you’re seeing broken shingle pieces it’s probably a good idea to get an inspection.
 
The original part of Dad's roof was done in '88. He just replaced it for the first time last summer. Flashing details and underlayment are more important than than the shingles themselves.

When you're done with a bundle you'll see a good bit of granules in the bag. Normal wear and tear to see some grit in the gutters....probably. Any leaks? Any soft spots near hips, ridges, valleys, or skylights? Any stray tabs in the yard? If not, figure out your next project. Dad's roof was overdue, but it wasn't leaking. The tabs of the shingles, if you looked at em they'd look frayed like fiberglass at the edges.
 
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Ted said:
So a few comments bring up another question, if my roof is apparently still not super old at 20 years - at what point does a roof generally actually need to be replaced? Is some of the shingle material ending up in the gutters normal wear and tear?
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You can go up and inspect the roof. Look for broken corners or missing tabs. You can also see how dry and brittle the shingles are. Most shingle roofs are good for twenty years. A look in the attic will usually spot any leaks that many be happening ...
 
Flatiowa said:
Edit: I don’t like steel roofs, thermal expansion coefficient differential between steel and wood added to woods movement from moisture content change has in my experience in farm buildings make them leak around the fasteners. But here it can be -30 in the winter and 115 in the summer so it’s stressed to the extreme. If money was no object I’d go slate or lead in a heartbeat.
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Exposed fastener roofs are garbage. Concealed fastener or standing seam like I have dont have these issues.
 
I was just looking at a home inspector chart. They estimate the basic 3-tab asphalt shingle roof life expectancy is 20 yrs and the 3-D style should go 30. That would be a proactive replacement vs waiting for leaks.
 
Matthew said:
I was just looking at a home inspector chart. They estimate the basic 3-tab asphalt shingle roof life expectancy is 20 yrs and the 3-D style should go 30. That would be a proactive replacement vs waiting for leaks.
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Does it address a “second layer” (possible with three tab, and not uncommon to see a third layer where allowed).
 
Racerx said:
Exposed fastener roofs are garbage. Concealed fastener or standing seam like I have dont have these issues.
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Given the number installed and the warranty - and my own personal experience with the roof we have on our house - I’d say “garbage” might be just a little over the top.

Maybe it doesn’t meet your personal preference.
 
DaleB said:
Given the number installed and the warranty - and my own personal experience with the roof we have on our house - I’d say “garbage” might be just a little over the top.

Maybe it doesn’t meet your personal preference.
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You are correct
 
Flatiowa said:
Does it address a “second layer” (possible with three tab, and not uncommon to see a third layer where allowed).
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I don’t think so. I’m assuming it was based on single layer.

I know when I asked my roofer, he wouldn’t guarantee anything unless he took the old roof off all the way down to bare wood. Otherwise he had no way to know how any flashing or anything else had been installed, and wouldn’t be able to inspect for any damage. Valleys and kickouts seem to be trickier than they should be.
 
Two bits of advice. First, get whatever the right roof is for your location. Here, that's asphalt shingles. Second, and just as important, get a good roofer. Ask around locally and get references, in terms of quality of work, ease of scheduling, etc. I'd ignore online reviews, and talk to friends, neighbors, friends of friends, etc. A good roofer will know what to do for your area and your house to make things work. They'll follow the manufacturer's procedures or better so they don't have warranty issues or callbacks. A bad roofer will be miserable to schedule, will screw up the flashing, the materials, overlap the underlay wrong, screw up the drip edge - they'll figure out how to put good materials on wrong.

I put a roof on my place 2 years ago, great company. I knew it was time because some of the shingles were starting to crack through in places. No leaks. It was probably up 25 years. Ice barrier for the first few feet. About a 1500' ranch with gables, only one chimney and 2 vents, about a 6 person crew and the tear down and install only took a few hours.
 
My house has a slate roof with snow guards. Occasionally needs slates replaced as they shed, but otherwise, no complaints. We've been here ten years and I suspect that roof will be there long after I'm gone.

My garage has a standing seam roof, very shallow pitch. The only issue is that it's painted with this rubberized silver reflective stuff, and apparently that needs to be reapplied periodically.

Would be cool if they made standardized enameled panels that would last forever:

en.wikipedia.org

Lustron house - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org en.wikipedia.org

or maybe aviation-style etching primer and paint...
 
I personally have no interest in getting up on my roof, so that leaves me out of doing inspections on it. Our contractor (who himself doesn't do roofing, so he wasn't trying to drum up business for himself) was up there a year or two ago and said he was starting to see a few signs that it would probably need attention.

We did just switch insurance companies last year and they did do a "roof inspection" (which consisted of looking at the roof from the ground) to determine if they were going to have to prorate the roof based on age. I need to go back through the policy but my recollection is that they accepted it as good enough to not prorate.

I think at one point we saw one shingle that came off, and there have been no indications that we've seen of leaks. Our house's attic is unfinished, but I've been up there for some other work, and I haven't seen any indications of leaks there, either.

I'm sure that any roofer will tell me the roof needs to be replaced to get me on the books. From what folks are saying on here (although I'm not fully sure on the locations of everyone) it sounds like we may be a bit early and on the proactive side if we replace it now.
 
I've done several roofs, my choice would definitely be a metal roof, I've done two of those. I did them both myself, it worked out that the material cost alone for metal was roughly equal to the cost of have a contractor put new shingles on... but it lasts pretty much forever. It's super easy as they're one piece panels from peak to eave, 36" wide, it goes fast.

In both cases I put the metal over the existing shingles (there was only one layer). My garage (~400sf) I did completely solo in one weekend. The house (~2000sf) I did with my son in law's help over 5 days (with a day off for a hurricane in the middle of the job!). The garage is holding up fine 20 years later, the house is more recent and also doing fine. Both are exposed fastener standing seam.

We went for "galvalume" finish, no paint, shiny silver color and for the first few years boy was it bright! Like a beacon you can see for miles away bright. But it dulls eventually.

I've also worked on numerous shingle roofs, both my own and friends'. I never want to do it again, but I know I will. Up at the cabin we do "roofing parties" when somebody needs a new roof, so it's pretty certain I'll be helping on somebody's roof at least once each summer... but I had 20+ friends and neighbors helping me on mine a couple of years ago, so it evens out. I would have done metal there too, but the rules allow only black or gray shingles.
 
This sounds like the perfect opportunity to get a high dollar drone so you can get a good high-def look at your roof. Check for any areas around vents. Typically you’ll start to see the seal on vent pipe flashing start to degrade. That allows rain to seep in around the outside of the plumbing vent. Water will dribble down along that PVC until it hits a bend, then it drips off. You won’t see it from inside the attic. If you find a water stain on in upstairs ceiling, see if it’s inline with a vent.

I would trust my roofer for an honest opinion, and he’ll take plenty of pictures to explain what he finds.
 
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Lots of good advice here. I've done probably 10 asphalt shingle roofs in my lifetime either helping family or family helping me. It's hot, heavy work, but really doable once you figure out how to start/end/work around penetrations.

That said, on the ADU I built, we had a standing seam metal roof put in that should last for 40+ years (may redo the roof jacks at 20 years as a precaution).

The next two houses I'll have built will get standing seam.

You can also do standing seam over shingles, but there are pros and cons (stripping is REALLY hard work).

If you do standing seam, you can add high density foam board under them. Note that you'll need to do some horizontal boards between the foam panels so that the roof can withstand shear loads, but it's not a big deal (there is some foam board that is R 7.3 per inch). Even an inch of that would probably help a lot on heat/cool.
 
Ted said:
I personally have no interest in getting up on my roof, so that leaves me out of doing inspections on it. Our contractor (who himself doesn't do roofing, so he wasn't trying to drum up business for himself) was up there a year or two ago and said he was starting to see a few signs that it would probably need attention.

We did just switch insurance companies last year and they did do a "roof inspection" (which consisted of looking at the roof from the ground) to determine if they were going to have to prorate the roof based on age. I need to go back through the policy but my recollection is that they accepted it as good enough to not prorate.

I think at one point we saw one shingle that came off, and there have been no indications that we've seen of leaks. Our house's attic is unfinished, but I've been up there for some other work, and I haven't seen any indications of leaks there, either.

I'm sure that any roofer will tell me the roof needs to be replaced to get me on the books. From what folks are saying on here (although I'm not fully sure on the locations of everyone) it sounds like we may be a bit early and on the proactive side if we replace it now.
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Some granules in the runoff is normal, but how much are still on the shingles is the question.

One other consideration with shingles is are they still stuck down at the ends of the tabs. A sloped roof is not designed to be water tight, it's designed to have the water run off before it can leak in. If the shingle edges are loose (not broken-that's another problem) wind can force water under and it will find a place to leak in eventually.

As others have said, properly designed and installed metal will be a much longer lasting roof. Terra cotta tiles last centuries, but you have to have a much heavier roof structure under them so they don't flex. Same with cement tile roofs (except they don't last as many centuries as terra cotta). But metal can go on your roof without having to rebuild the underlying structure. And even though you are Ted, I don't think you want to do that.

Also, if you wait until you have leaks, you will probably have to replace parts of your underlayment wood and even framing. Water can be getting in your roof and causing wood to rot long before you see it in the house.

So, it depends...
John
 
Ted said:
So a few comments bring up another question, if my roof is apparently still not super old at 20 years - at what point does a roof generally actually need to be replaced? Is some of the shingle material ending up in the gutters normal wear and tear?
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my North side shingles put material into my gutter for 20+ years before I replaced it. It wasn't leaking but many of the shingles were curling up and no longer had material on them I probably waited at least 5 years longer than I should have to replace it, But the only issue it had was it cosmetically didn't look very good.

If it is the 3 tab shingles, doing early just putting another lay of shingles on a rather trivial job, since there is not stripping of the old shingles.

Brian
 
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