Thinking about a Bulldozer and/or Backhoe/Excavator

[Ted]

So, I bought a new trailer:

Yeah, I know the photo is terrible.

Anyway, the old trailer was too small in a few ways. It was only rated at 7k lbs (with a 2k lb empty weight) which made it much too small for my front end loader (weighs in at something around 8k lbs). It also was only 82" wide which was just wide enough for our vehicles when I put them on, but again not wide enough for the front end loader. Length was 20'.

Also, we have other equipment we wanted to buy.

So I got what I think was a really good deal on this brand new trailer. It's 20'+5' dovetail, built-in ramps, actually has trailer brakes, and has a 14k lb weight capacity with a 102" width (the deck goes over the wheels). I went for a pintle ring setup this time as I've not had one previously and that also seemed to be cheaper.

I'd heard some people say they didn't like pintle setups since the ring can bang around a bit during starting and stopping. It does, but it doesn't bother me. I'm really happy with how the trailer tows. Of course, I haven't put anything on it yet.

And that, my friends, is the point of this latest and greatest "thinking about" thread.

As y'all may recall, we're working on building a runway on our property. And in true putting the cart before the horse form, we've cut down a bunch of trees and cleared a bunch of them. Bonfires are going to be great the next few years.

The next step we have is removing the stumps. Along with that we are going to have to do some dirt moving in the process of leveling certain areas. So, that brings us to the next item: bulldozer/backhoe.

I'm thinking something in the small/medium range. For one, needs to be able to fit on the new trailer and be within the weight capacity - so figure <12k lbs. Also, I think that'll do all we need it to, and be better on price. Looking to spend <$10k.

For backhoe, it seems like pretty much anything would do the trick from what I've seen, but the Case 580 looks like it's "right sized" and would do about anything I need. Any suggestions for alternates? Looks like Fords would also work, pretty much anything in that small/mediumish range.

On the dozer side, looking around there are a few things of interest. Mitsubishi made a smallerish dozer that looks to be a good unit, although parts are also hard to find. I found a Massey Ferguson MF200 dozer which looks like it's on the larger size of what I want (which is a good thing). One friend of mine has suggested a Cat D4 as another option. The specs look like they would be about right, but haven't found any semi-local. Curious as to thoughts and recommendations there.

I really know nothing about bulldozers, but it seems the undercarriage is a big deal on these older ones. And of course on backhoes the hydraulic rams/cylinders/whatever you want to call them are a big deal (same on the dozers). The rams I know what to look for, less on the undercarriage.

I'm somewhat leaning towards trying to find a backhoe for the moment since I think that'll do a better job of getting the tree stumps out and trying to fill the holes in to start, and then see what makes the most sense for a dozer/ground leveling. However I'm open to being told otherwise.

Another thing is I have no idea where to be looking for this stuff. I've been looking on Craigslist and Facebook marketplace, but I'm sure there are better websites to look at if anyone knows what they are.

So, help me think.

 

[Rod Broberg]

Ted,
Check out purplewave.com. It is an online auction site with lots of construction equipment. Also bigiron.com might have something.

 

[Chip Sylverne]

You aren't gonna get much of a dozer worth a darn under 12,000 lbs. Heck, a JD 450 is almost 16,000, and that's a small unit. I have a Cat 977, and it weighs in at nearly 50k lbs.
Maybe a mini-excavator with a push blade. Very handy, but you aren't going to level a runway with it. Decide what you need to do. Maybe renting might be a better option.

You're right about the undercarriage. Very spendy. Look for worn bushings, pins and whether the track has been reversed. The bull gears and idlers wear too. All these are checked for wear by physical measurements. Sharp edges on drive sprockets aren't good, excessive wear.Pass on anything less than 60% wear remaining.

Farm auctions are a good bet to find a machine, but educate yourself first. What size are the stumps you're pulling? You can do a lot of that with your tractor if hey're small and you're careful. You can get a lot done with a week's rental of a mini-excavator as well.

 

[Mtns2Skies]

You can try govplanet for ex-military equipment. Of course no guarantees on anything you buy there.

https://www.govplanet.com/

They also have a civilian website called ironplanet.

Edit: While you're at it. Gov planet is selling off old Humvees. Pick one of those up too .

 

[Ted]

You aren't gonna get much of a dozer worth a darn under 12,000 lbs. Heck, a JD 450 is almost 16,000, and that's a small unit. I have a Cat 977, and it weighs in at nearly 50k lbs.
Maybe a mini-excavator with a push blade. Very handy, but you aren't going to level a runway with it. Decide what you need to do. Maybe renting might be a better option.

You're right about the undercarriage. Very spendy. Look for worn bushings, pins and whether the track has been reversed. The bull gears and idlers wear too. All these are checked for wear by physical measurements. Sharp edges on drive sprockets aren't good, excessive wear.Pass on anything less than 60% wear remaining.

Farm auctions are a good bet to find a machine, but educate yourself first. What size are the stumps you're pulling? You can do a lot of that with your tractor if hey're small and you're careful. You can get a lot done with a week's rental of a mini-excavator as well.

I was kinda figuring that a small dozer in the weight range wouldn't do much. That said, I'm also not looking at needing much. The ground is pretty flat but there are a few areas where it needs to get some dirt moved. Honestly I could probably do it with my front end loader, it'd just take a while to give you an idea. Plus it'd be fun to have and I think there'd be some other uses around the property.

In some ways I'm thinking of "both" as the answer as I think the mini-excavator/backhoe will do the best job of the tree stumps.

One other thin I've been thinking of with a backhoe would be a backhoe trencher instead of a backhoe loader. I already have a front end loader, and I like it. I especially like the hydraulic hay spikes it has which I use to help me grab trees and stuff that I move around. Can't think of a particular need for a trencher at the moment other than to run electricity out to the large pond at some point, but that might happen and it's a 500' or so run.

 

[MIFlyer]

swing that trailer by, will you? i need to load up two 30"x15' wet redwood logs to get up to the mill and don't want to
1. buy a trailer for this one job
2. pay $500 to rent one for a month
3. pay my excavation guy $1k to load and haul it to the mill and bring the sticks back.

I literally was cruising craigslist today for one I could buy cheap enough, run for a month, and sell before i have to tag it.

 

[3393RP]

Years ago I worked for my dad the mechanical contractor. We had a Case 480. My dad confidently informed me his tandem trailer and one ton flatbed Chevy could handle the backhoe easily.

I gotta tell you, it was an extreme white knuckle ride. It wasn't me, either. I started driving semis when I was fifteen, and I knew how to handle a load.

But jeezus, pulling that backhoe on Houston freeways was scary as hell. It outweighed the truck by well over X 2.

 

[weilke]

12000lb is skid steer territory.

 

[Chip Sylverne]

De

12000lb is skid steer territory.

That's actually the handiest piece of equipment I have. The Takeuchi TL130 tracked machine would probably do everything Ted wants and more, and the variety of grapples, trenchers, post hole drivers and augers and other attachments make them very versatile indeed. Problem would be sneaking in under $10k. Something to think about though. I use my skid steer far more often than tractor or track loader.

 

[weilke]

That's actually the handiest piece of equipment I have. The Takeuchi TL130 tracked machine would probably do everything Ted wants and more, and the variety of grapples, trenchers, post hole drivers and augers and other attachments make them very versatile indeed. Problem would be sneaking in under $10k. Something to think about though. I use my skid steer far more often than tractor or track loader.

Their price stability is a good thing. You pay a couple $$ more at the front end but you have a good chance to get that back when you sell after the project is done. There is a bigger market of landscapers who need a decent 10,500lb skid steer than those who need a baby dozer.
A couple days rental of a compact excavator should be enough to dig out the stumps.

 

[AKBill]

A couple days rental of a compact excavator should be enough to dig out the stumps

Or a case of dynamite and it would be a lot more fun...

 

[Checkout_my_Six]

I have a 42,000lb track loader (Kamatsu D66S- 3 yrd bucket)....you won't need that for stumps. I'm filling in a low area on my property with fill.

My vote is a TLB....tractor loader backhoe. You can hoe each stump then chain them out or use the loader to move them.....or just dig a hole next to them and bury the stump.

 

[Ted]

Years ago I worked for my dad the mechanical contractor. We had a Case 480. My dad confidently informed me his tandem trailer and one ton flatbed Chevy could handle the backhoe easily.

I gotta tell you, it was an extreme white knuckle ride. It wasn't me, either. I started driving semis when I was fifteen, and I knew how to handle a load.

But jeezus, pulling that backhoe on Houston freeways was scary as hell. It outweighed the truck by well over X 2.

If you’re saying “Years ago” then I’m assuming this was an older Chevy in which case I’m not surprised at all.

The 2000+ 1 tons are a lot more stable and capable. They’ve really improved things.

De


That's actually the handiest piece of equipment I have. The Takeuchi TL130 tracked machine would probably do everything Ted wants and more, and the variety of grapples, trenchers, post hole drivers and augers and other attachments make them very versatile indeed. Problem would be sneaking in under $10k. Something to think about though. I use my skid steer far more often than tractor or track loader.

That’s another good consideration. I’d thought about a skid steer and maybe that’s the way to go. I’ll research further what’s available.

 

[SaltH2OHokie]

I'll echo some previous comments based on my experience. Currently have a D3 on the job site for keeping roads dressed up that is shockingly inept at any big jobs... More of a fine grade machine. And that's too big for your trailer.

I'd think if you could swing the biggest mini-ex you could afford with a grader blade AND a skid steer with a few attachments (grapple, power rake, etc) you'd do everything you ever want and then some.

Granted, I just spent more of your money than you suggested, but hey... Not my money

 

[cgrab]

You may want to look at a Case 455 of 655 track loader with a 4 in 1 bucket and a backhoe attachment. We used them when I was with the combat engineers and it did everything we asked of it.

 

[NealRomeoGolf]

Two words. Caterpillar.

 

[Checkout_my_Six]

two spensive.....for his budget.....

 

[NealRomeoGolf]

two spensive.....for his budget.....

But it’s like the classic airplane question. No matter the mission the answer is always a Bo. When moving dirt, the answer is always Caterpillar. But I’m not biased or anything.

 

[cgrab]

One more thing...when looking at backhoes, get one with an excavator style boom (the section near the base should be curved). This prevents the bucket from tearing up the hydraulics on the boom if it is not curled when the arm or stick is retracted.

 

[weilke]

I'll echo some previous comments based on my experience. Currently have a D3 on the job site for keeping roads dressed up that is shockingly inept at any big jobs... More of a fine grade machine. And that's too big for your trailer.

Needs a bigger trailer !

Or maybe a D1 dozer:

 

[Ted]

Appreciate the advice. I think one thing to point out is that this project is really smaller than what I probably made it sound like it was. Yeah, we could get a bunch of huge equipment and probably get a faster/better result, but a lot of the point is to have some fun doing it ourselves and we're not in a rush time wise. So something that will do the job but take a bit longer isn't necessarily a problem if it'll do the job.

I've gotten a lot of recommendations on a skid steer and that seems like that might be the best option for the job if I can find one within the budget. I'll look around and see.

 

[Checkout_my_Six]

you could get one of these for under $8,000 (Allmond TLB) and it will haul on your trailer....I have one and love it. It's a gasoline Kohler engine with all hydrostatics. Very simple and powerful. I like it because it's small and doesn't tear everything up. I does foundations well. That's why I purchased mine. I put drain tile in around a house foundation. But, since that I use it for everything.

You'll want a hoe of some kind to dig out the stump root ball....go watch a few youtubes and you'll see.

I don't care for skid steers....they are awkward IMHO.

 

[Ted]

you could get one of these for under $8,000 (Allmond TLB) and it will haul on your trailer....I have one and love it. It's a gasoline Kohler engine with all hydrostatics. Very simple and powerful. I like it because it's small and doesn't tear everything up. I does foundations well. That's why I purchased mine. I put drain tile in around a house foundation. But, since that I use it for everything.

You'll want a hoe of some kind to dig out the stump root ball....go watch a few youtubes and you'll see.

I don't care for skid steers....they are awkward IMHO.

That looks more or less like what I was thinking about, although which brand I go with is more or less based on what I can find a reasonable price on and in reasonable condition.

 

[Checkout_my_Six]

and at that price....be prepared to work on it....cause it will break down.

The more important part of what I posted is that hoe is not an "implement". Implements IMHO are not ideal. I like it built in. You'll get more for your money and a better performing hoe.

 

[NealRomeoGolf]

We definitely don’t make anything that small in our lineup. We make mini excavators but not mini backhoes.

 

[Matthew]

How about a mega stump-plucker?

 

[weilke]

If history is any guide, the next post from Ted will include pictures of some 60,000lb track-hoe that 'is in good shape and just needs XYZ to do the job' followed by monthlong travails until the complete undercarriage overhaul is completed before the first stump is dug out ;-)

Just drove past a utility construction site. Every piece of heavy equipment on site had a 'United Rentals' decal on the side. Not sure what they require for qualifications before they drop off heavy equipment, but given the logistics of moving anything bigger than 12,000lbs, I doubt that owning a single-purpose piece of equipment just to clear some stumps and grade some land is a worthwhile investment.

 

[Ted]

If history is any guide, the next post from Ted will include pictures of some 60,000lb track-hoe that 'is in good shape and just needs XYZ to do the job' followed by monthlong travails until the complete undercarriage overhaul is completed before the first stump is dug out ;-)

Just drove past a utility construction site. Every piece of heavy equipment on site had a 'United Rentals' decal on the side. Not sure what they require for qualifications before they drop off heavy equipment, but given the logistics of moving anything bigger than 12,000lbs, I doubt that owning a single-purpose piece of equipment just to clear some stumps and grade some land is a worthwhile investment.

I think you make a good point, and the equipment purchased should be things that we expect to get additional utilization out of beyond the immediate project. With that in mind, I think I got an idea of what I want and need to search further to find it.

 

[Chip Sylverne]

Tell you what, you ain't lived until you've swung a sledge to beat the master pin out of dozer tracks. Definitely earn your man card doing that ****. Once is enough, thanks.

Ritchie Bros auctions has a pretty good listing of stuff, and has a few real large sales across the country.

 

[weilke]

I think you make a good point, and the equipment purchased should be things that we expect to get additional utilization out of beyond the immediate project. With that in mind, I think I got an idea of what I want and need to search further to find it.

40 years ago the basement for my parents house was dug using something similar to the Case track-loader pictured above. It was delivered on a low-boy that had to back into the road from 1/4 mile away.
2 months ago, the last lot in our rural subdivision got a house on it. It's on a steep driveway with limits on equipment size. The basement and septic were dug by a two man crew using a vertical lift tracked skid-steer and a compact excavator. While the skid-steer only moves dirt a half yard at a time, the speed and maneuverability allow it to move a lot of it over the course of a day. Also, if you have high-flow hydraulics there are lots of attachment available for rent that would come in handy in a runway project. Cultivators, box-blades, rippers, grapples, augers, grinders etc. It's like ratchet driver with 100 different bits.

 

[Chip Sylverne]

If history is any guide, the next post from Ted will include pictures of some 60,000lb track-hoe that 'is in good shape and just needs XYZ to do the job' followed by monthlong travails until the complete undercarriage overhaul is completed before the first stump is dug out ;-)

Just drove past a utility construction site. Every piece of heavy equipment on site had a 'United Rentals' decal on the side. Not sure what they require for qualifications before they drop off heavy equipment, but given the logistics of moving anything bigger than 12,000lbs, I doubt that owning a single-purpose piece of equipment just to clear some stumps and grade some land is a worthwhile investment.

One of the factors why big contractors rent or lease is they don't have the mx headaches. Keeping one of those big machines in shape isn't easy, and when they break, it makes airplanes look cheap.

 

[Checkout_my_Six]

One of the factors why big contractors rent or lease is they don't have the mx headaches. Keeping one of those big machines in shape isn't easy, and when they break, it makes airplanes look cheap.

turbine aircraft ......or piston aircraft?

 

[weilke]

One of the factors why big contractors rent or lease is they don't have the mx headaches. Keeping one of those big machines in shape isn't easy, and when they break, it makes airplanes look cheap.

It may also just be a cost+ contract where they dont care all that much whether it is truly the lowest cost solution for a job ;-)

 

[cgrab]

That looks more or less like what I was thinking about, although which brand I go with is more or less based on what I can find a reasonable price on and in reasonable condition.

Allot of the equipment manufacturers use Kubota engines so you may want to start with a Kubota. Your first big decision is gas or diesel. You should spend allot of time reading up on pros and cons of each before you decide. Also, thinking long term if your TLB has belly attach points and hydraulics you could get a mower for the future grass.

 

[denverpilot]

you could get one of these for under $8,000 (Allmond TLB) and it will haul on your trailer....I have one and love it. It's a gasoline Kohler engine with all hydrostatics. Very simple and powerful. I like it because it's small and doesn't tear everything up. I does foundations well. That's why I purchased mine. I put drain tile in around a house foundation. But, since that I use it for everything.

You'll want a hoe of some kind to dig out the stump root ball....go watch a few youtubes and you'll see.

I don't care for skid steers....they are awkward IMHO.

I like the truck in the background.

 

[Ted]

Allot of the equipment manufacturers use Kubota engines so you may want to start with a Kubota. Your first big decision is gas or diesel. You should spend allot of time reading up on pros and cons of each before you decide. Also, thinking long term if your TLB has belly attach points and hydraulics you could get a mower for the future grass.

My other tractors are all gas, and I'm pretty happy with that arrangement. Parts are easy to come by, the things are reliable, and for the amount we use them the difference in fuel consumption is pretty minor. If the engine goes out in one of the tractors then it's not too big of a deal to rebuild the thing, biggest deal being waiting on the machine shop. Thus far (knock on wood) they're doing great after 3 years. Other than the 9N, I'm in the process of rebuilding that engine now, although that was the fault of the previous owner and not really surprising.

That said, I'm probably going to end up with a diesel just because that's what comes with most of these things from what I've seen, and that's fine too.

 

[EdFred]

 

[Mtns2Skies]

Allot of the equipment manufacturers use Kubota engines so you may want to start with a Kubota. Your first big decision is gas or diesel. You should spend allot of time reading up on pros and cons of each before you decide. Also, thinking long term if your TLB has belly attach points and hydraulics you could get a mower for the future grass.

Good God man. **A lot**

 

[Checkout_my_Six]

I look forward to reading about the maintenance threads.....with this heavy equipment.

 

[denverpilot]

Good God man. **A lot**

Many, even!