The ups and downs of airplane insurance

jd21476

jd21476

Line Up and Wait
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jd21476
Its been about 1 year since I bought my plane and at the time of my original quote I had 12 hours of complex time in make and model. This year I now have over 110 hours and I had assumed my insurance would go down but it actually went up by $160. This is for the same coverage from the same company. What gives?
 
premiums for all types of insurance are based on many factors. why not call your agent and ask why?
 
jd21476 said:
Its been about 1 year since I bought my plane and at the time of my original quote I had 12 hours of complex time in make and model. This year I now have over 110 hours and I had assumed my insurance would go down but it actually went up by $160. This is for the same coverage from the same company. What gives?
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Aviation Insurance has skyrocketed across the board. The decrease due to your hours was probably less than the premium went up.
 
jd21476 said:
Its been about 1 year since I bought my plane and at the time of my original quote I had 12 hours of complex time in make and model. This year I now have over 110 hours and I had assumed my insurance would go down but it actually went up by $160. This is for the same coverage from the same company. What gives?
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Let'sgoflying! said:
Only $160?
Grab it and run.
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^^^This

Consider yourself fortunate. I've had no accidents and no claims. Ever. Over the 8 years I have owned my twin my insurance has gone up 57%. Most of that in the past 3 years. This year's increase was 21.5%.

My broker tells me there are companies that used to underwrite aviation insurance that are getting completely out of it. Past losses (don't think the Boeing Max fiasco isn't playing a role here), fewer players, less competition = higher prices.
 
I work in the industry but everyone else pretty much nailed it. Over the last 15 years there were many, non traditionally aviation insurance companies that came into the marketplace. They saw the premiums in the aviation sector and thought it would be awesome to get some of that. Well, they slashed premiums, gobbled up the market share. But they didn’t realize that the premium is high because so are the claims. So money was flying through the door, all is well. But then the claims started to catch up to them. Big loses, but even the small ones. A new Cessna 172 costs damn near Half a million dollars. If a student balls it up on the first solo, a premium of say, $1000/year for that would take 500 years for the insurance company to recoup on that account. Those start to add up, then the 5 fatal when someone crashes their turboprop, or a tour helo goes in, those really hammer it home. The traditional aviation insurers that have been around from the beginning knew this, and over the last few years, the new companies found it out, and they’re bailing from the industry. Prices are correcting to the natural state.
 
Not only are rates going up but requirements are getting tighter. Just wait till you become a senior citizen ,then watch your rates.
 
My insurance went down $100 bucks with only 75 hours of complex time now (just renewed yesterday). I was fully expecting it to go up. My agent told me corporate jet market has gone up about 40%.
 
jd21476 said:
Does it bother you that people ask questions on here? Isnt that what forums are for?
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Not necessarily. But in less than a minute of using the search function you would have discovered a number of threads on the topic. The increase in insurance premiums has been cussed and discussed in nearly every aviation forum over the past several months and was featured by AOPA in at least one article and on their weekly YouTube broadcast among others. Probably will get repeated since a lot of renewals seem to take place in December - February and I would expect to see a significant increase in rates - again. Hell, the insurance for my 91 Tiger exceeds my malpractice premium by about $250 a year and I have a heck of a lot more coverage on my malpractice than I get on the Tiger. Go figure - insurance world is upside down right now in the aviation industry and will be that way for some time.
 
I have an idea....lets not have anyone start a new thread. Everyone just search and never strike up a thread except if it is a brand new thought. That will surely make this forum a great place.

and the whole “asked and answered thing” is so Paper Chase law school terminology
 
Jumpmaster said:
Not necessarily. But in less than a minute of using the search function you would have discovered a number of threads on the topic. The increase in insurance premiums has been cussed and discussed in nearly every aviation forum over the past several months and was featured by AOPA in at least one article and on their weekly YouTube broadcast among others. Probably will get repeated since a lot of renewals seem to take place in December - February and I would expect to see a significant increase in rates - again. Hell, the insurance for my 91 Tiger exceeds my malpractice premium by about $250 a year and I have a heck of a lot more coverage on my malpractice than I get on the Tiger. Go figure - insurance world is upside down right now in the aviation industry and will be that way for some time.
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No one's forcing you to click on insurance threads or comment. Don't like a thread, keep scrolling doc.
 
midwestpa24 said:
No one's forcing you to click on insurance threads or comment. Don't like a thread, keep scrolling doc.
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Wait... You mean it is not a condition of membership to read every new post every day? Ohhh... to think of the hours I have wasted...

:D
 
smv said:
Wait... You mean it is not a condition of membership to read every new post every day? Ohhh... to think of the hours I have wasted...

:D
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No it's not.
Except for the threads asking for advice on what airplane to purchase. Those are mandatory reading, no exceptions. As is any thread with the word Bo or Bonanza in it.
 
GRG55 said:
No it's not.
Except for the threads asking for advice on what airplane to purchase. Those are mandatory reading, no exceptions. As is any thread with the word Bo or Bonanza in it.
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Speaking of Bananas... There's a beaut of an A36 in the hangar right now where we park the Warrior. TKS, Tip Tanks, leather seats, full glass panel... Beautiful airplane.
 
Just dump the hull coverage and go with liability.

Or if you insist on hull coverage, up the deductibles.

I refuse to be held hostage by insurance companies. It’s a supply and demand market.
 
Doc Holliday said:
Or if you insist on hull coverage, up the deductibles.
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I tried that this year. No luck. Here’s my agent’s reply:

“Unfortunately, unlike other types of insurance, most aviation policies have set deductibles. Aviation insurance companies will not change the deducible in order to alter the rates. The good news is, most carriers set their deductibles at $0 (for no increase in premium) in order to be an attractive option.”
 
steingar said:
There is no down in aviation insurance, only up.
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With all that has been reported, I was expecting a large increase over last year. Just received my quote and my large "up" increase for this year is $14.00. I'll take it!
 
Anybody have contact to share with me to get a quote. Just got a quote for almost $9,000. Low time pilot, but holy crap.
 
JD318 said:
Anybody have contact to share with me to get a quote. Just got a quote for almost $9,000. Low time pilot, but holy crap.
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call a broker like Gallagher or BWI.
 
JD318 said:
Anybody have contact to share with me to get a quote. Just got a quote for almost $9,000. Low time pilot, but holy crap.
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Give Travers a call. Lisa is great.



Lisa Hitti

Travers & Associates Aviation Insurance Agency, LLC

CA License #0L14370

P.O. Box 220519

St. Louis, MO 63122

800-888-9859 (Toll Free)

314-963-9080 (Local)

314-963-9105 (Fax)
 
JD318 said:
Thank you. I tried BWI, wouldn't even give a quote. I can try Gallagher.
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You'll find that all of the brokers quote the same companies. You might try avemco, they were the best option for me, although not much cheaper than the broker options. Having an instrument rating helps, more complex time, too, but i understand you can't do much about that short term. On my airplane insuring it for $140k hull vs 150 made a big difference, there are break points. I also got discounts for having a hangar, participating in WINGS, and being an AOPA member, although I don't know how much.

I have around 220 hours, ir, no retract time, I'm paying around 5k for my Lance. Avemco offers the option of paying quarterly and re-rating the policy as your hours increase. I was told that 25, 50, & 100 hrs retract will make a big difference, as will 250tt.
 
Jim K said:
You'll find that all of the brokers quote the same companies. You might try avemco, they were the best option for me, although not much cheaper than the broker options.
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I went to several companies for quotes as well as a couple of brokers. Both BWI (Haley Peek) and Gallagher (Leah Ringeisen) shopped the market and ultimately quoted AIG as cheapest, which came in at 1/2 the premium of any other company and less than half of Avemco. Avemco was by far the most expensive. This was on a $100k Experimental for a relatively low-time pilot who is pushing age 70. I don't know if it helps to be a member of AOPA and/or EAA, but most companies ask if you are, and I am.
 
My understanding is if they are a broker and they reach all the major markets then it really doesn't matter who you go with as the prices quoted by the insurance companies are the same. I tried two different brokers and they told me that if I call one then because the markets are so limited its pretty much like calling all of them as they get the same quotes and your current insurance company will only quote your current broker.
 
jd21476 said:
I tried two different brokers and they told me that if I call one then because the markets are so limited its pretty much like calling all of them as they get the same quotes and your current insurance company will only quote your current broker.
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I used the folks I referenced above and was given quotes from several companies and the difference was pretty wide as one was about double last years cost and another was over 3-1/2 times the lowest quote. My current carrier has an increase over my coverage last year of $14.00. I'll take it!:)

BTW ... I had Avemco for a number of years but I'm really pleased with A.I.R.
 
jd21476 said:
My understanding is if they are a broker and they reach all the major markets then it really doesn't matter who you go with as the prices quoted by the insurance companies are the same. I tried two different brokers and they told me that if I call one then because the markets are so limited its pretty much like calling all of them as they get the same quotes and your current insurance company will only quote your current broker.
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The lowest quotes that I received were from AIG, and from the two brokers, the premiums were within $150 of each other, and I had named my CFI/buddy on it. The more expensive of the two included both an Open Pilot Warranty and a Subrogation Waiver, and I went with that one.
 
At a certain age if you drop insurance you won't be able ever get any again so I am paying the minimum even though I have not flown in over 6 months. No where to go. Everything that that would justify a flight is closed.
 
Snowmass said:
At a certain age if you drop insurance you won't be able ever get any again so I am paying the minimum even though I have not flown in over 6 months. No where to go. Everything that that would justify a flight is closed.
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Yeah, I don't know if that's a real thing or not, but I guess I'll find out with my next renewal.
 
Age 76 seems to be a big deal now. Don’t know if it was before.

I’m not close to that age, but a COPA poster reported that his agent could get a quote for $1 million smooth liability from only one company, Brown, out of 15 companies checked by the agent. That’s when he was 76. And despite >50 years of accident-free flying. Age 75 wasn’t a problem, but 76 was.

The next year, at age 77, Brown would no longer quote him. Only two companies were offering him quotes at age 77 in 2020, he said. Those were Starr (which quotes through independent agents) and Avemco (which doesn’t use the agents).
 
A fellow Mooney pilot was denied coverage for any retractable primarily because of his membership in the UFOs. Actually it was the fact that he qualified. He's got to sell his aircraft now, which really sux.
 
I'm a 150hr pilot all on fixed gear, just got my IR in Sept. My insurance on my 182H isn't bad, something like 1400, but i only have 70k on hull value and she sits outside. I'm not expecting a big break @ renewal for getting my IR, now that rates are going up at same time. Every time I think about "the next plane" and possibly a retract, the insurance turns me off.
 
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