The true cost of owning an aircraft

Strutwipe

Strutwipe

Pre-takeoff checklist
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May 8, 2019
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Strutwipe
Hi All,

I'm in the process of purchasing my first aircraft, a PA 38 Tomahawk! The airframe time is 5890, engine is 1860 (Lycoming 325 L2C), and propeller 3488 hours.

I have started my own cost analyses but thought that maybe an experienced owner may have a detailed spreadsheet available?

All suggestions are welcomed and thank you in advance.
 
Why I have just the sheet for the Tomahawk... shoot me a PM with your emial and I will get it over to you.. Which one are you buying?
 
A detailed spreadsheet? Of the cost of ownership? With a breakdown of each and every expense?

Haahahahahahahahhahha!

Thanks, I really needed a belly laugh.
 
Cluemeister said:
A detailed spreadsheet? Of the cost of ownership? With a breakdown of each and every expense?

Haahahahahahahahhahha!

Thanks, I really needed a belly laugh.
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Glad I can bring some humor to your life.... I hate a nickle because it is not a quarter...
 

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Strutwipe said:
Hi All,

I'm in the process of purchasing my first aircraft, a PA 38 Tomahawk! The airframe time is 5890, engine is 1860 (Lycoming 325 L2C), and propeller 3488 hours.

I have started my own cost analyses but thought that maybe an experienced owner may have a detailed spreadsheet available?

All suggestions are welcomed and thank you in advance.
Click to expand...

I don't understand! I just own and fly my planes. If they need something buy it. Why overthink things.
I really don't care what it cost or keep up with any of it.
Do you have a spreadsheet for your car? Spreadsheet for you motorcycle? Spreadsheet for your boat? Spreadsheet for all the beer and junk you buy?
Just live day by day and don't worry so damn much.
 
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pigpenracing said:
I don't understand! I just own and fly my planes. It they need something buy it. Why overthink things.
I really don't care what it cost or keep up with any of it.
Do you have a spreadsheet for your car? Spreadsheet for you motorcycle? Spreadsheet for your boat? Spreadsheet for all the beer and junk you buy?
Just live day by day and don't worry so damn much.
Click to expand...

This is EXACTLY how I feel and do. With the boat, motorcycle, airplanes (4 of them), motorhome, and all my vehicles.
 
Ventucky Red said:
I hate a nickle because it is not a quarter...
Click to expand...
Thanks for the PDF.

The engine/airframe MX formula looks like it came out of the Cap'n Ron playbook. How is the Avionics formula derived?
 
pigpenracing said:
I don't understand! I just own and fly my planes. It they need something buy it. Why overthink things.
I really don't care what it cost or keep up with any of it.
Do you have a spreadsheet for your car? YES....Spreadsheet for you motorcycle? Spreadsheet for your boat? YES.... Spreadsheet for all the beer and junk you buy? No!
Just live day by day and don't worry so damn much.
Click to expand...

When I got out of college I worked for a consulting group that did cost analysis, time and motion, audits, and other neat number stuff.... yeahhh guess I am a number geek..

For my car I have to as I use the vehicle for work and have to document the millage, maintenance etc... I usually take the mileage deduction, but I want to make sure I am not leaving any money in the table. For the boat, I do it to help me justify ownership and what I have into it...

As for the plane, I want to make sure I am socking away money to account for the large expense... engine, pannel upgrade, etc....
 
Hopefully your dealing with disposable income, a spreadsheet only shows you how fast you are spending it, enjoy the airplane.
 
From a Dave Ramsey / budgeting / I don't want any surprises, I can see where budget planning would be helpful. You'll know how much each month tie down/hanger, insurance, annual fund, etc. Want to add IFR to it? What will it cost, and save/plan for it as a budget item. Have a fund for "well shoot, why did that break".

Figure what the cost per hour would be in fuel and engine replacement, etc.

I think the trick is if you plan it / control your money, you'll get to your objectives faster and not worry if something breaks you won't be able to fly.
 
I love Dave Ramsey and honestly he is a part of why I can afford to buy an airplane. But, NO, I don’t keep a spreadsheet for a myriad of reasons. I don’t want to know what I’m spending. God, don’t tell my wife.
 
You don’t want a spreadsheet to detail the true costs. You want a spreadsheet to detail the imaginary budget you will ignore except possibly to show significant others

Just a few justifications for blowing the budget

  • If I don’t fly the engine will get corrosion and cost even more
  • If I don’t fly I’ll lose proficiency
  • I have to fix / replace / upgrade that for safety reasons
 
Ventucky Red said:
Why I have just the sheet for the Tomahawk... shoot me a PM with your emial and I will get it over to you.. Which one are you buying?
Click to expand...

"Part 61 is how you get your license, Part 91 is how they try to take it away" TRUE STORY!
 
Been boating for 5 years now. Started a spreadsheeet and was warned against it. I no longer have a spreadsheet...lol. I kind of a tight wad and spend about $6000-7000/year on the boat. If you had told me before I bought it that it would cost me that much /year I probably wouldn't have bought it. Now I just don't think about it
 
TheFB said:
I love Dave Ramsey and honestly he is a part of why I can afford to buy an airplane. But, NO, I don’t keep a spreadsheet for a myriad of reasons. I don’t want to know what I’m spending. God, don’t tell my wife.
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Dave Ramsey gave me the strength to get our home paid off and debt free. Now I can afford to finish up my PPL and fly often. I wish he would run for President.

The aircraft is double mission, finish up my training and business use so I have to keep books on it.
 
WDD said:
From a Dave Ramsey / budgeting / I don't want any surprises, I can see where budget planning would be helpful. You'll know how much each month tie down/hanger, insurance, annual fund, etc. Want to add IFR to it? What will it cost, and save/plan for it as a budget item. Have a fund for "well shoot, why did that break".

Figure what the cost per hour would be in fuel and engine replacement, etc.

I think the trick is if you plan it / control your money, you'll get to your objectives faster and not worry if something breaks you won't be able to fly.
Click to expand...

Fix cost are easy. The aircraft is basic IFR certified so I can transition fairly quickly. It's the got ya stuff, surprises, that needs to be budgeted for because everything will wear or burn out.
 
Ventucky Red said:
Glad I can bring some humor to your life.... I hate a nickle because it is not a quarter...
Click to expand...

This is exactly what I'm asking for. I like the fact you are planning for 82-27-08. The -16 web for part 3 is $1,111 by itself.
 
You can certainly track fixed costs easily... but beyond that - fly man fly! As long as you aren’t living paycheck to paycheck ya do what ya gotta (or really want to) do...

Be as active as you can in your crafts maintenance and even repair when possible. You will begin to understand her more and be a wiser and wiser aircraft owner/pilot as the years roll... Making educated maintenance decisions.

Besides...

Ya just can’t plan on expenses such as those VGs you just truly need now for safety purposes from what your buddy over coffee told ya... Really it would now be irresponsible to not get them now after What he told ya...
 
asicer said:
Judging by all the posts around here, it's the novice owners that have the detailed spreadsheets. Apparently the experienced owners delete them at some point. :)
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Experienced owners never delete them. We keep them so we can leave the impression we are being responsible citizens by budgeting and tracking costs.
We just stop adding to them once the first screen of cells is filled. We flash it up to impress anybody, like your neighbors, who will think so highly of your prudence and good management they'll start lobbying you to run for alderman and straighten out the local council budget or something...;)

I'm on the Board of our Flying Club. We've debated adding a bylaw that any Club member that owns an airplane is disqualified from holding such positions on the grounds they clearly demonstrate lack of good judgement.
 
DenverDave said:
Don’t forget a healthy budget for initial catch up maintenance.
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Yup, budget 10-20% of the initial purchase price to be spent in the 1st year or two fixing all of the DPO deferred mx and getting it up to your standards.
 
You will generally spend double whatever a spreadsheet says you will spend. Still, it is 100% worth it. Just make sure you have enough cash on hand to deal with whatever WILL come up. If not, you will be better off waiting and saving until you do.
 
Strutwipe said:
Come on man, I'll grow into it.
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That was slightly tongue-in-cheek. Many of us who own/owned planes said the same thing "I'll grow into it." And yet there's a certain amount of truth to the saying "The 2 happiest days of an airplane owner's life are the day they buy the plane and the day they sell it".

While a Tomahawk (like a 152 or 172) is fairly simple compared to a retract, the fact remains that many, many pilots get into ownership and then don't put the resources into maintaining their planes. Stuff gets ignored or deferred. There is a lot of junk out there as a result. I spent a *lot* on maintenance of my Commander, but I wanted dispatch reliability as close to 100% as I could owing to using the plane for business travel and the lack of familiarity by a number of mechanics at other airports. Other folks have a different attitude toward maintenance with much lower cost (I bought my plane after dealing with breakage after breakage in the flight school fleet - the final straw was during instrument training when the AI on one plane rolled over and went T.U. and the next plane we took out lost the vacuum pump). Cost also depends on where you're based: cost for things like tie-down/hangar, mechanics, etc. will be higher in, say DC or the NYC area than it is in Tyler, Texas.

It'll always cost more than you expect. We rationalize things and tend to underestimate costs.

Don't get me wrong: I'm not trying to discourage you from buying if that's what you want to do. Just suggesting that it's much like buying an older house.
 
Best advice given to me before the airplane purchase was “don’t buy the cheapest airplane, but buy the the airplane cheapest to own”. That is, try to find the airplane that will require the least amount of high dollar repairs. With that being said, as a farmer I am conditioned to outrageous parts and repair bills associated with John Deere equipment. It can and often exceeds that of general aviation. Neither time nor space will allow me to share the horror stories of farm equipment ownership and costs. In many ways Cessna parts and maintenance are a bargain compared to the green paint.
 
Strutwipe said:
Fix cost are easy. The aircraft is basic IFR certified so I can transition fairly quickly. It's the got ya stuff, surprises, that needs to be budgeted for because everything will wear or burn out.
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In figuring your cost/value be careful of the Basic IFR. 2 things to consider. Does The IFR equipment work acceptably? For IFR equipped aircraft I recommend if possible getting an IFR approach demonstrated as this is usually when you find things like CDI's or nav radio's that aren't working. 2nd Can you actually complete your instrument rating in it. I have had a couple students with "Basic IFR" airplanes wanting to do instrument ratings. While we could do about 75% of the training in their airplane, we could not reasonably meet the requirements for the IFR cross country or for providing an acceptable aircraft for the checkride. This meant they had find another aircraft to meet these requirements and train in it enough to take the check ride in it. In my area anyway there just are no longer 3 different kinds of approaches that don't require either a DME or Legal IFR GPS. Depending on where you are located there may be enough options that do not require this equipment.

BTW I really enjoyed teaching in the Tomahawks. I have a few hundred hours in them. They were reliable and even in the training environment regularly made the 2400hr TBO or more. Only engine issue I ever recall having was a nut on on one of the rocker arms falling off causeing me to have to return to the airport with 3 working cylinders. reinstalled the nut properly and all was good.

Brian
CFIIG/ASEL
 
My first plane I tracked everything for about 6 months. Everything included gas and I had a quick formula to track cost per hour based on my flying and all fixed costs. I got sick of making the entries when in reality it wasn't going to change my flying, it was just a curiosity point.

For my 10 I tracked all construction costs and now only track MX expenses. I don't track gas, the cost of my hangar, or when I buy a tool or something plane related. Now I track the Date, Vendor, Amount, and a Description on a fairly basis ledger. Since getting out of Phase I (April 2019) I have a total of 6 entries so it's not cumbersome to manage. In the same workbook I track pertinent MX info so I don't have to break out the logbooks every time I have a question. On that tab I track the dates for Condition Inspection, Oil Change, Altimeter, ELT and Transponder. Also have the Tach time for my last Oil Change for quick reference. Then below all that I have a 40 something row table where I'm tracking parts, serial numbers, install date, tach and MX Action tach, ie 2000 hours on Engine, 500 hours on Mags. This has proved handy as well and after initial set up is painless to maintain.
 
Thank you all for your input.

This plane was in a training fleet but was well looked after. The engine is a core overhauled trade from Lycoming as was the one before it. The logs up to 2013 are impeccable. Over three hundred pages between airframe, engine, and propeller. Very detailed to include torque wrench # with cert date. They even documented spraying LPS 3 every couple of years. Whoever was the director of maintenance, did a fabulous job. After that, it's just annuals C/W, ELT, ALT and such. I'm more concerned with two annuals being signed off on one page and no maintenance in between. I'm pretty sure a landing light has burned out, tire worn, or the carb heat needed to be adjusted in the past seven years. The aircraft is accumulating hours.

If the pre-buy flight goes well, to include radios, I'll do a check on the compression and scope the cylinders. If they are good, I'll open up the filter. If that is good, it's on to the airframe. All access panel will be removed and thoroughly inspected inside. This aircraft has a centerline access panel which I assume will allow me to look at the lowest point of the spar. The landing gear fairings will come off to check that the bolts have not backed off. Of course check for oil canning, waves, and corrosion. The paint is original so there is no hiding tipping rivet heads. And of course the vertical stab. I've got a quarter pound knocker to check for any type of delamination.

I appreciate all of the cost are not what you expect comments. I've taken notes, yes recorded on a spreadsheet, and taking all comments very seriously. I already have a hefty slush fund to catch up with that seven years of no documented, not saying it didn't happen, maintenance. So unless I find something major, this is going to happen!

Please keep the comments and suggestions coming!
 
This comes up pretty regularly.

Karen and I don’t have a budget, per sé. But, we do track and categorize virtually ever penny we spend on an Excel spreadsheet. A few reasons...

1) Knowledge is power. We like knowing where the money is going. I don’t care for the uncertainty of wondering how we managed to spend so much and not know where it went.

2) It’s a law of physics that you can’t observe something without some effect on the thing being observed. Just being aware of what we’re spending money on can effect how much we spend on a given category going forward.

3) Comparing years, we can spot trends in spending that might become problematic. Helps us establish future spending priorities.

But everybody’s different, and certainly this isn’t for everyone. Just works for us.
 
“The landing gear fairings will come off to check that the bolts have not backed off.”

I misunderstood your comment at first. Then I decided to search if they ever had wheel pants. This is not something you normally see. Maybe good for a few knots?

Plus it looks like extended wing tips.

upload_2020-12-30_19-51-42.jpeg
 

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