The "newest" childhood disorder - daydreaming

Provided I can stop an overzealous school from diagnosing my chikdren, I don't really care.

It's another fake disease like ADHD.
 
Provided I can stop an overzealous school from diagnosing my chikdren, I don't really care.

It's another fake disease like ADHD.

That is where we are at. Be smart enough to tell the childhood education industry to bleep off. A lot of otherwise smart parents that believe the 'teachers and child rearing experts.' Forget saving them all, save yours.
 
That is where we are at. Be smart enough to tell the childhood education industry to bleep off. A lot of otherwise smart parents that believe the 'teachers and child rearing experts.' Forget saving them all, save yours.

You must be a blast to have for a parent teacher conference. Yes you are right, save your child from the horrible teachers who try and educate your child each day and do the work of bettering tomorrow.

It's truly stunning that people legitimately feel this way, that teachers are now the bad people. It's no wonder discipline is a thing of the past and blame authority is now the new trend.

If you want to save your kid from being medicated, sure I have no issue with that. Please, allow others to decide for themselves where they stand on this issue and stop with the crazy comments reflected in your post above. I can no longer take you seriously on this issue if this is how you actually feel.
 
I call bull**** on this one. The school my grandson attends wants to diagnose and drug him for this make believe condition, BECAUSE it results in more money from the state every time they "diagnose" and "treat" a child by keeping them stoned.

As is the case far too often, it is always about the money.

Again, ok that's your experience and that is a shame. I'd just encourage you to not paint with such broad strokes and lump every single student into the same category as your grandson. The school I work for does not get funding for any "diagnoses" so I guess I'm lucky that I have a less negative view of schools motivations.

ADHD is not a made up condition but I'm sure I can't convince you of that so I'm not going to even attempt to. Like I've said before on this site, it would be nice if people don't use phrases like " keeping them stoned." It is an outlandishly biased phrase and hurtful to people who have to make this decision.
 
One thing is really clear, and it matters little what state your in, the nation as a whole falls significantly behind the rest of the world when it comes to the general education of it's populace.

If you ask parents, it's the schools fault. If you ask the schools, it's the parents fault, if you get them both together, it's the system fault, or the unions fault, the states fault, hell, it's probably England's fault.

We live under Bureaucratism, therefore, the only possible answer to our educational problems is it is always someone else's fault.

It is obviously nobody's fault many high school graduates have trouble making their name on a piece of paper, it's all caused by bad magic.

-John
 
Again, ok that's your experience and that is a shame. I'd just encourage you to not paint with such broad strokes and lump every single student into the same category as your grandson. The school I work for does not get funding for any "diagnoses" so I guess I'm lucky that I have a less negative view of schools motivations.

ADHD is not a made up condition but I'm sure I can't convince you of that so I'm not going to even attempt to. Like I've said before on this site, it would be nice if people don't use phrases like " keeping them stoned." It is an outlandishly biased phrase and hurtful to people who have to make this decision.

Though I appreciate the job that public school teachers are supposed to do, I see very little proof that those things are actually being accomplished.

The one thing I see is an ever increasing budget and cost per student, that is not being returned in better educated children. An increasing number of students are pushed thru the system, like cattle, treated like zombies, taught very little by teachers that seem to be more in tune with what their union contract has to offer than what they can do to improve educational outcomes and the ever increasing need to indoctrinate, beat the individual out of children and impose collective and socialist agendas instead.
 
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Judging by the posts of many on here I can now see why the education system in the United States is in the shape it's in. With this level of support for the work of teachers, schools really have become an island on to themselves. I get the sense that if I started talking to many of you at a dinner party you'd probably end up hurling insults at me within 20 minutes just because I am a teacher. I guess I fail to realize that, to many of you, teachers are no better than the local drug dealer--in fact maybe worse since at least with the local drug dealer your tax dollars don't go to pay his salary.

In fact where do many of you come off insulting schools and teachers so liberally? It's truly sickening that many think schools indoctrinate students and are out to medicate the entire populace to help them conform. I can't even believe I need to defend schools against such allegations and quite frankly I should not have to! It must be really easy to push those papers around in cushy corporate jobs knowing full well that you only need to answer to your boss or yourself each day and leave the challenge of educating the population to the teacher who you will then blame the first time you can.

Listen, I don't take any of this seriously because so far no one who has attacked teaching or the education world has done so with any new material or in a way that I have not heard before. Maybe I'm just a little fed up and tired of hearing it that drives me to continue to respond.

I'd encourage anyone who is actually interessted in knowing more about medicating students and the resulting pros and cons to talk with as many teachers and parents who actually do this stuff each day and ignore the outlandish statements made by many here.
 
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Judging by the posts of many on here I can now see why the education system in the United States is in the shape it's in. With this level of support for the work of teachers, schools really have become an islad on to themselves. I get the sense that if I started talking to many of you at a dinner party you'd probably end up hurling insults at me within 20 minutes just because I am a teacher.

In fact where do many of you come off insulting schools and teachers so liberally? It's truly sickening that many think schools indoctrinate schools as ate out to medicate the entire populace. It must be really easy to push those papers around in cushy corporate jobs and leave the challenge of educating the population to the teacher who you will then blame te first time you can.

Listen, I don't take any of this seriously because so far no one who has attacke teaching or the education world has done so with any new material or in a way that I have not heard before. Maybe I'm just a little fed up and tired of hearing it that drives me to continue to respond.

I'd encourage anyone who is actually interessted in knowing more about medicating students and the resulting pros and cons to talk with as many teachers and parents who actually do this stuff each day and ignore the outlandish statements made by many here.

"The work of teachers" is to educate our students, not play doctor and diagnose them with illnesses. That should be limited to their health professionals.
 
"The work of teachers" is to educate our students, not play doctor and diagnose them with illnesses. That should be limited to their health professionals.

.... And it is. Health professionals diagnose students and are the only ones who can. I've said that about 20 times on this web site in multiple threads where teachers have been attacked. Teachers teach and doctors medicate. It does not happen any other way.
 
.... And it is. Health professionals diagnose students and are the only ones who can. I've said that about 20 times on this web site in multiple threads where teachers have been attacked. Teachers teach and doctors medicate. It does not happen any other way.

It does in many areas, where teachers/principles are allowed to push diagnoses and medication through the school nurse in some cases.

I see nothing wrong with a teacher suggesting a potential illness. I do, however, have a problem with the teacher working with the nurse to dispense medication.
 
I get the sense that if I started talking to many of you at a dinner party you'd probably end up hurling insults at me within 20 minutes just because I am a teacher.

Not at any one individual teacher, but at the general population of them because they are failing to educate our students.

Kids graduate not being able to read or know how much change to give if the cash register doesn't tell them. The system teaches them little of history, leaving them to repeat the same mistakes . This continues at the university level. Is that doing the kids a service? I think not.

Follow directions; don't challenge what we're teaching you. We don't want you to think for yourselves is the message I take away from that.
 
It does in many areas, where teachers/principles are allowed to push diagnoses and medication through the school nurse in some cases.

I see nothing wrong with a teacher suggesting a potential illness. I do, however, have a problem with the teacher working with the nurse to dispense medication.

I never knew a nurse could write a script. Regardless of whether someone in the school or a parent is pushing for a diagnosis, it is the PHYSICIAN'S responsibility to only write prescriptions when NECESSARY. I don't get the anger towards the teachers either. They do not have the legal authority on this issue; the fault doesn't lie there. The docs are the gatekeepers.
 
Not at any one individual teacher, but at the general population of them because they are failing to educate our students.

Kids graduate not being able to read or know how much change to give if the cash register doesn't tell them. The system teaches them little of history, leaving them to repeat the same mistakes . This continues at the university level. Is that doing the kids a service? I think not.

Follow directions; don't challenge what we're teaching you. We don't want you to think for yourselves is the message I take away from that.

Have you folks every heard of a School Board? Who do you think runs the schools, ultimately? It is the parent's responsibility. If they don't like what is happening, GET INVOLVED.
 
Judging by the posts of many on here I can now see why the education system in the United States is in the shape it's in. With this level of support for the work of teachers, schools really have become an island on to themselves. I get the sense that if I started talking to many of you at a dinner party you'd probably end up hurling insults at me within 20 minutes just because I am a teacher. I guess I fail to realize that, to many of you, teachers are no better than the local drug dealer--in fact maybe worse since at least with the local drug dealer your tax dollars don't go to pay his salary.



In fact where do many of you come off insulting schools and teachers so liberally? It's truly sickening that many think schools indoctrinate students and are out to medicate the entire populace to help them conform. I can't even believe I need to defend schools against such allegations and quite frankly I should not have to! It must be really easy to push those papers around in cushy corporate jobs knowing full well that you only need to answer to your boss or yourself each day and leave the challenge of educating the population to the teacher who you will then blame the first time you can.



Listen, I don't take any of this seriously because so far no one who has attacked teaching or the education world has done so with any new material or in a way that I have not heard before. Maybe I'm just a little fed up and tired of hearing it that drives me to continue to respond.



I'd encourage anyone who is actually interessted in knowing more about medicating students and the resulting pros and cons to talk with as many teachers and parents who actually do this stuff each day and ignore the outlandish statements made by many here.


First, lighten up on the drama. I know what it's like when someone attacks one's profession, but there's no need to have a persecution complex. Try being a CPA after the Enron problem.

Second, many here probably have more knowledge and perspective than you give them credit for. My wife, daughter and I each had 12 years of Catholic education, so don't have direct exposure to the public education system. However, I'm well aware of the benefits for teachers in that system (and usually financial is not one of them) vs the public system.

However, my father-in-law was a PhD in the College of Education at Illinois State University, and we spoke often about the state of public education. It is no secret that school age boys are more medicated than 2-4 decades ago, and it's no secret that it is a contentious and highly debated issue.

Third, I totally understand the idealism that shapes people to become teachers. It is an admirable and sometimes underpaid profession. However, your compatriots in the public sector teachers unions and the Department of Education have done you and idealistic teachers like you no favors in their adversarial and combative approach to the same taxpayers that fund their pay and benefits and facilities. So pardon some of us who bristle when we are told that we are monsters if we balk at finding some of the Taj Mahals of public schools. Us paper pushers that you unfairly offend are the ones who fund the public systems, and usually the private and parochial systems as well.

Lastly, you would have more credibility if you could at least acknowledged that indoctrination often takes place in the education system. While it can happen in the private or parochial schools, you have to admit that there can be systemic indoctrination in the public system, whether it is driven at the district level, state level, or national level. What do you think of Common Core?
 
Judging by the posts of many on here I can now see why the education system in the United States is in the shape it's in. With this level of support for the work of teachers, schools really have become an island on to themselves. I get the sense that if I started talking to many of you at a dinner party you'd probably end up hurling insults at me within 20 minutes just because I am a teacher. I guess I fail to realize that, to many of you, teachers are no better than the local drug dealer--in fact maybe worse since at least with the local drug dealer your tax dollars don't go to pay his salary.

In fact where do many of you come off insulting schools and teachers so liberally? It's truly sickening that many think schools indoctrinate students and are out to medicate the entire populace to help them conform. I can't even believe I need to defend schools against such allegations and quite frankly I should not have to! It must be really easy to push those papers around in cushy corporate jobs knowing full well that you only need to answer to your boss or yourself each day and leave the challenge of educating the population to the teacher who you will then blame the first time you can.

Listen, I don't take any of this seriously because so far no one who has attacked teaching or the education world has done so with any new material or in a way that I have not heard before. Maybe I'm just a little fed up and tired of hearing it that drives me to continue to respond.

I'd encourage anyone who is actually interessted in knowing more about medicating students and the resulting pros and cons to talk with as many teachers and parents who actually do this stuff each day and ignore the outlandish statements made by many here.

It could be that people are lashing out at the bureaucracies and the people who work for them, bureaucrats.

The stories of a teachers unthinking blind obedience to regulation and policy, no matter what harm befalls a child as a result, then add the less than mediocre results of a once great system, that actually did produce educated young people.

Even those that failed to graduate from high school at least learned enough to fill out a job application or start their own business, a rarity among todays high school graduates who have spent their entire grade school years being convinced that they will be failures without a college degree.

It does not matter how dedicated and sincere a teacher might be, their membership in a failing bureaucracy has tainted the public perception of what it is they are doing.

I disagree, if the members of this board met you at a party or for some hangar flying, you would be treated like a pilot and a friend. Your occupation would be secondary.

-John
 
First, lighten up on the drama. I know what it's like when someone attacks one's profession, but there's no need to have a persecution complex. Try being a CPA after the Enron problem.

Second, many here probably have more knowledge and perspective than you give them credit for. My wife, daughter and I each had 12 years of Catholic education, so don't have direct exposure to the public education system. However, I'm well aware of the benefits for teachers in that system (and usually financial is not one of them) vs the public system.

However, my father-in-law was a PhD in the College of Education at Illinois State University, and we spoke often about the state of public education. It is no secret that school age boys are more medicated than 2-4 decades ago, and it's no secret that it is a contentious and highly debated issue.

Third, I totally understand the idealism that shapes people to become teachers. It is an admirable and sometimes underpaid profession. However, your compatriots in the public sector teachers unions and the Department of Education have done you and idealistic teachers like you no favors in their adversarial and combative approach to the same taxpayers that fund their pay and benefits and facilities. So pardon some of us who bristle when we are told that we are monsters if we balk at finding some of the Taj Mahals of public schools. Us paper pushers that you unfairly offend are the ones who fund the public systems, and usually the private and parochial systems as well.

Lastly, you would have more credibility if you could at least acknowledged that indoctrination often takes place in the education system. While it can happen in the private or parochial schools, you have to admit that there can be systemic indoctrination in the public system, whether it is driven at the district level, state level, or national level. What do you think of Common Core?

I'll lighten up for the purposes of continuing this discussion but I'll remind you that I did not throw the first jab here.

You make valid points for sure. Yeah education has its flaws and has and always will suffer from extensive buracractic garbage. I never begin to defend that and can't stand it myself.

What I will continue to defend is the individual teacher who is not "indoctrinating students or medicating students into compliance." If people here want to throw stones at the systematic issues with the current state of education then far be it from me to stand in their way. Just let's not blame the teachers for the current state of medicating students or the failures of the education system. It's just not fair and not my experience.

I only pass comment about pushing papers to expose the relative lack of blame corporate America gets for the failings of society. You mention "try being an accountant after Enron.". Well try beig a teacher during many conversations with people who have kids. Everyone becomes an expert on education and what goes on in schools just because they send their kids there each day. It's a little tough to just keep sitting by and taking hits over and over again. I can sit idly and allow this to go on when I know the people are actually attacking the system-- I can't when it becomes personally against the teacher. I'd hope some here can respect that.
 
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It could be that people are lashing out at the bureaucracies and the people who work for them, bureaucrats.

The stories of a teachers unthinking blind obedience to regulation and policy, no matter what harm befalls a child as a result, then add the less than mediocre results of a once great system, that actually did produce educated young people.

Even those that failed to graduate from high school at least learned enough to fill out a job application or start their own business, a rarity among todays high school graduates who have spent their entire grade school years being convinced that they will be failures without a college degree.

It does not matter how dedicated and sincere a teacher might be, their membership in a failing bureaucracy has tainted the public perception of what it is they are doing.

I disagree, if the members of this board met you at a party or for some hangar flying, you would be treated like a pilot and a friend. Your occupation would be secondary.

-John

Very good points John. My last employer was a high school dropout back in the late fifties. He never let that stop his continuing education, and went on to become a successful businessman.
 
I disagree, if the members of this board met you at a party or for some hangar flying, you would be treated like a pilot and a friend. Your occupation would be secondary.

-John

Well thanks John. I appreciate that. Although I fear that if I continue my defense of teachers I may alienate myself! I don't worry about that too much though because I healthy discussion is never bad!

And I too would still great all of you kindly and with respect because no matter what are stance are on education, we are all united by the drive to learn more each day while we fly.
 
Well thanks John. I appreciate that. Although I fear that if I continue my defense of teachers I may alienate myself! I don't worry about that too much though because I healthy discussion is never bad!

And I too would still great all of you kindly and with respect because no matter what are stance are on education, we are all united by the drive to learn more each day while we fly.
I won't hold anything against you personally. Besides you are a private school teacher and that is whole nother level of competence(high) and pay(low.)
 
Judging by the posts of many on here I can now see why the education system in the United States is in the shape it's in. With this level of support for the work of teachers, schools really have become an island on to themselves. I get the sense that if I started talking to many of you at a dinner party you'd probably end up hurling insults at me within 20 minutes just because I am a teacher. I guess I fail to realize that, to many of you, teachers are no better than the local drug dealer--in fact maybe worse since at least with the local drug dealer your tax dollars don't go to pay his salary.

In fact where do many of you come off insulting schools and teachers so liberally? It's truly sickening that many think schools indoctrinate students and are out to medicate the entire populace to help them conform. I can't even believe I need to defend schools against such allegations and quite frankly I should not have to! It must be really easy to push those papers around in cushy corporate jobs knowing full well that you only need to answer to your boss or yourself each day and leave the challenge of educating the population to the teacher who you will then blame the first time you can.

Listen, I don't take any of this seriously because so far no one who has attacked teaching or the education world has done so with any new material or in a way that I have not heard before. Maybe I'm just a little fed up and tired of hearing it that drives me to continue to respond.

I'd encourage anyone who is actually interessted in knowing more about medicating students and the resulting pros and cons to talk with as many teachers and parents who actually do this stuff each day and ignore the outlandish statements made by many here.

They hate cops and teachers...lol. Welcome. Just do your job the best you can. Disregard nonsense.
 
The Anti-Authority vein runs deep here.

Why do yo think that is?

Perhaps it is due to pilots being subjected to the mind numbing, nit picking, rules, regulations, and laws that are being imposed on them, and increased annually by the FAA, and other interested bureaucracies.

I still maintain that general aviation has become a bureaucrats wet dream.

-John
 
Good now all seems right with the world again. Pilots complaining about the FAA and overreaching regulations! Now that I'll gladly fully support! :)
 
And that anti-authority attitude is just more ammunition for those bureaucrats to shut us down.


If displayed in the cockpit, the I agree.

However, I see no correlation between fighting against tyranny and abuse of the Constitution, and exhibiting anti-authority in the cockpit. One doesn't beget the other.
 
I've always been anti authority, however, I always have played the game by the rules when it comes to things like flying, my military experience, firearms, martial arts, taxes, and anything else that can fu*k up my life. I play the game, I reserve the right to ***** when on my own time.

-John
 
And that anti-authority attitude is just more ammunition for those bureaucrats to shut us down.

Fear of retaliation is a valuable weapon used by government to limit debate.

Nothing succeeds like having a bunch of panty waists, running around crying,"don't you SEE? If you disagree ad speak up, they might make thing worse?"

It is almost as pathetic as as the whiners who say, "If you have nothing to hide, why do you claim your rights against illegal searches?"
 
Maybe schools in the Denver area, but I can tell you from personal experience that around here that is simply untrue.


So how many times can they be held back? How many are leaving school at the end without a diploma who didn't drop out?

I suspect the numbers are the same here as there, and I also suspect they don't match the typical left side of any natural bell curve.
 
Fear of retaliation is a valuable weapon used by government to limit debate.

Nothing succeeds like having a bunch of panty waists, running around crying,"don't you SEE? If you disagree ad speak up, they might make thing worse?"

It is almost as pathetic as as the whiners who say, "If you have nothing to hide, why do you claim your rights against illegal searches?"


I have a newish younger co-worker who is constantly asking, "Do you think I'll get in trouble for this?" when he's not sure about some stupid paperwork BS or policy.

He's driving me insane. A) I don't know. They're morons who think paperwork fixes things. They make up the rules as they go. B) I don't care if you get in trouble. It's your job/career. C) I just do the damn job, make sure I can defend anything I've done as a benefit to the damned company and if they want to argue about procedure, I'll be busy working on the next thing that'll put us all put of business and jobs.

In other words, "I don't know and I don't care, kid. The place has lost 18 of 24 IT staff in a year. How good do you think they are as managers with that track record? Think there's probably lots of real work to do? Think they're really going to get in your way if you're not making really big mistakes? Go forth and fix stuff." LOL.

He's terrified someone might not like what he's doing. He can't seem to figure out that he'd have to walk into the data center with a few pounds of explosives to actually make something significantly worse. Haha.
 
I have a newish younger co-worker who is constantly asking, "Do you think I'll get in trouble for this?" when he's not sure about some stupid paperwork BS or policy.

He's driving me insane. A) I don't know. They're morons who think paperwork fixes things. They make up the rules as they go. B) I don't care if you get in trouble. It's your job/career. C) I just do the damn job, make sure I can defend anything I've done as a benefit to the damned company and if they want to argue about procedure, I'll be busy working on the next thing that'll put us all put of business and jobs.

In other words, "I don't know and I don't care, kid. The place has lost 18 of 24 IT staff in a year. How good do you think they are as managers with that track record? Think there's probably lots of real work to do? Think they're really going to get in your way if you're not making really big mistakes? Go forth and fix stuff." LOL.

He's terrified someone might not like what he's doing. He can't seem to figure out that he'd have to walk into the data center with a few pounds of explosives to actually make something significantly worse. Haha.

One thing modern education (brainwashing) has done, is create a clear path to success for every high school and college graduate that refused to cave in, sell out, play by their petty, cowardly rules and be a drone.

Those that innovate, create, think way outside the box and generally frighten the sheep that populate the teaching profession, are the ones that will lead the lemmings, lazy parasites, frightened wimps and color inside the box at all times, losers into the future.

Home schooling, good private schools and those children that simply refuse to conform are the next generation of great American success stories, much to the everlasting displeasure of the pathetic losers teaching them to sit still, play quietly, never disagree, never challenge the status quo and never be on the wrong side of a politically correct debate.
 
Florida Cracker I have one question for you, when do you think "modern education" started? Around what year? I'm just trying to figure out if you differentiate between when you attended school( which because I figure is a long time ago because you mention you have a grandson) and what you perceive goes on in today's schools.

I also find it interessting that your quotes on the bottom of your post seem to indicate a displeasure for the current state of policy makers. I fully support your displeasure but I'd like to suggest that many of these policy makers are products of the previous wave of education reform, largely made up of a question everything mentality and make your voice heard no matter what. I think we can both agree that we would rather not hear the voice of some in power today, but this anti-brain washing stance you take, seems at odds with what the alternative model produces--people who think they are always right, willing to change what is and was just because. As a teacher I'd like to believe I instil a understanding of self worth, but I willingly restrict that self worth when it is misguided or pre-mature, something this current generation of policy makers seems may actially even be a possibility, let alone the best option.

I'm not going to fall for the traps you set by calling teachers sheep and whatever else you said. I am way more interessted in your thoughts about the things above.
 
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The worst of modern education seems to have begun in the 1920's with the first wave of the new progressives. Those folks loved hitler, dabbled about with communism and set the stage for later generations of liberal progressives, who turned logic, reason and critical thought on its head.

Those pioneer progressives migrated into the universities and taught the next generation to comply, conform, think what they were told to think and become good, little, progressives.

By the sixties the teaching profession was also populated with a large group of folks who joined to avoid being drafted, as a teaching certificate came with a draft deferment and a lot of these folks had no desire to teach, shape, encourage, or otherwise lead the coming generation. Their motivation was strictly self serving.

In the current generation of parasites clogging up the teaching profession, there is a massive swing towards conformity at any cost, lemming like devotion to the progressive line, hatred for individualism, creativity, challenging the system, refusing to believe whatever the progressive line of lies is, today and any behavior not in side the box constructed to make their job easier.

Modern teachers are more likely to emulate the disgusting behavior of all those pathetic, whining, parasites that abandoned the classrooms to protest having to pay a microscopic percentage of their own health care costs, in Wisconsin and devolved into vandalizing imbeciles of the left, leaving mountains of garbage behind them when they finally gave up and went home. The example they set for their students said everything that needed to be said about their devotion to teaching and their contempt for the producers who paid their salaries.

Modern education is all about money, control and installing the progressive mantra at any cost.
 
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