The Most Difficult Part of IFR Aviation

flyingtexas

flyingtexas

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flyingtexas
What do you find is the most difficult procedure or aspect of IFR flying? I'm still in the ground school part of IFR, self-study, and alot of the material appears pretty complex to me, and so wanted to hear some feedback about what the pros think is the most difficult part of flying IFR.

Thanks
 
"IFR flying is 50% flying the plane and 90% mental" ~my CFII
Keeping the plane where it's supposed to be, while doing everything else.

Much like a student trying to fly in the pattern for the first time, a lot of things to watch, analyze, and correct.

Much like a student - you get used to it.
 
Staying current. And I don't just mean legally current...but "I feel like I could go fly shoot an approach to minimums" current.
 
I got to disagree with that comment about staying sharp enough to fly a approach to minimums. Stay sharp enough to fly in the system and know that may not be sharp enough to fly a ILS to 200 and 1 but just like you don't want to mess with minimum VFR weather you also don't want to mess with minimum IFR weather. Know what the weather and your personal minimums are and don't go past them. For the vast majority of IFR flyers it's not about shooting a ILS to minimums but being able to get above a low layer during take off and descend at the other end. That does not mean ignore the approach phase but it also means don't forgo getting IFR rating because you don't think you have the time or money to fly 6 approaches a month to stay razor sharp.
 
ILS approaches are among the easiest elements in IFR flying. Think about it. Aren't they all the same? Don't they all dump you off at the end of the runway in perfect position to land? What could be easier? What do you have do do different to fly one in NYC or BFE? Once you master the head-tapping belly-rubbing routine, you can perform it in any airspace as well as at weddings, bar mitzvahs and county fairs.

Non-precision approaches are much more difficult because, well, they are non-precision and lack the neat stuff that spits you out over the numbers.

Truth be known, none of the approaches that scare the newb's (because the haven't done enough of them to know there's nothing to it) are even a blip on the radar at hallowed halls where the hard separatin-the-men-from-the-boys work of flying in shlttyweather is done. The real work is figuring out what's really out there that can cause you to have a much more interesting day that you're mentally signed up for, and whether you and the airplane are up to the task. Once those brain cells are assigned to the task, you just gotta be sure they stay aodused up, you don't need a bunch more to do the necessary yanking and banking to get where youre going.
 
The hardest thing for ME to learn was ADF holds. Just took a while before it sank in, especially on the really windy days. Unless you have been around a while then you probobly won't even see ADF stuff anymore.

The hardest part now for ME is finding time to stay current. No biggie, just gotta do it. :thumbsup:
 
jtheune said:
I got to disagree with that comment about staying sharp enough to fly a approach to minimums. Stay sharp enough to fly in the system and know that may not be sharp enough to fly a ILS to 200 and 1 but just like you don't want to mess with minimum VFR weather you also don't want to mess with minimum IFR weather. Know what the weather and your personal minimums are and don't go past them. For the vast majority of IFR flyers it's not about shooting a ILS to minimums but being able to get above a low layer during take off and descend at the other end. That does not mean ignore the approach phase but it also means don't forgo getting IFR rating because you don't think you have the time or money to fly 6 approaches a month to stay razor sharp.
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I'm not sure that we disagree, really. You set personal minimums and you don't fly when you can't meet them. He asked me what the most difficult part was and I answered the question.

I didn't say that he shouldn't earn the rating if he couldn't stay proficient enough to fly an approach to minimums.
 
IFR training is the worst case scenario where you've lost communication, weather is at minimums, you've lost your vacuum system, and you're in a hold with an expected further clearance time. Real world IFR is vectors to final in reasonable weather, your radio works fine, and getting put into a hold is somewhere around lottery odds. Knowing the worst case is critical just in case it happens, but the normal IFR flight is much simpler.

Every IFR flying private pilot must have personal minimums above the legal minimums. I've never flown an ADF in the real world, yet I'm legal to fly one to minimums right now. Being competent in everything you're legal to do is nearly impossible unless you fly professionally.

For me, the most complex part of IFR on the east coast is working through the differences of what you've filed/cleared/fly. You try your hardest with fltplan.com and other tools but you really just have to deal with replanning whatever is thrown at you. Most of the time it's innocuous, other times you spend 10 minutes with the engine running studying charts.
 
wabower said:
Truth be known, none of the approaches that scare the newb's (because the haven't done enough of them to know there's nothing to it) are even a blip on the radar at hallowed halls where the hard separatin-the-men-from-the-boys work of flying in shlttyweather is done. The real work is figuring out what's really out there that can cause you to have a much more interesting day that you're mentally signed up for, and whether you and the airplane are up to the task. Once those brain cells are assigned to the task, you just gotta be sure they stay aodused up, you don't need a bunch more to do the necessary yanking and banking to get where youre going.
Click to expand...

Exactly.

And also shooting approaches to "real" minimums, not just to a minimum altitude on a beautiful clear, sunny, bright day. Breaking out and actually being in 200-1/2 with snow blowing across the runway is not the same as pulling the foggles off at 200 AGL and having great visibility.

Dealing with thunderstorms and ice... that's big.
 
seand said:
IFR training is the worst case scenario where you've lost communication, weather is at minimums, you've lost your vacuum system, and you're in a hold with an expected further clearance time. Real world IFR is vectors to final in reasonable weather, your radio works fine, and getting put into a hold is somewhere around lottery odds. Knowing the worst case is critical just in case it happens, but the normal IFR flight is much simpler.
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In some ways, being without communication is easier. You just wait until your EFC time, and then do what you're expected to. It may seem more difficult, but after spending a decent amount of time flying up in the wilderness areas of Canada, I have come to appreciate hard IFR with no communication.

Every IFR flying private pilot must have personal minimums above the legal minimums. I've never flown an ADF in the real world, yet I'm legal to fly one to minimums right now. Being competent in everything you're legal to do is nearly impossible unless you fly professionally.
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And even then, you're not going to be competent in everything. For example, I haven't shot a real NDB approach since my multi-engine training. Even though I have taken planes with functioning ADFs to airports with legal NDB approaches, I have opted to fly the GPS approaches instead. In a non-radar environment with passengers on board and crappy weather, I'm not particularly interested in taking the less-precise option. These days, about all I shoot are GPS and ILS approaches. The need to shoot a VOR, LOC/DME, or other just doesn't exist much where I fly.

For me, the most complex part of IFR on the east coast is working through the differences of what you've filed/cleared/fly. You try your hardest with fltplan.com and other tools but you really just have to deal with replanning whatever is thrown at you. Most of the time it's innocuous, other times you spend 10 minutes with the engine running studying charts.
Click to expand...

This is one of the reasons why I take lots of extra fuel with me when practical. Also, after you do the fights enough times you learn which routes you can take without trouble.
 
wabower said:
ILS approaches are among the easiest elements in IFR flying. Think about it. Aren't they all the same? Don't they all dump you off at the end of the runway in perfect position to land? What could be easier? What do you have do do different to fly one in NYC or BFE? Once you master the head-tapping belly-rubbing routine, you can perform it in any airspace as well as at weddings, bar mitzvahs and county fairs.

Non-precision approaches are much more difficult because, well, they are non-precision and lack the neat stuff that spits you out over the numbers.

Truth be known, none of the approaches that scare the newb's (because the haven't done enough of them to know there's nothing to it) are even a blip on the radar at hallowed halls where the hard separatin-the-men-from-the-boys work of flying in shlttyweather is done. The real work is figuring out what's really out there that can cause you to have a much more interesting day that you're mentally signed up for, and whether you and the airplane are up to the task. Once those brain cells are assigned to the task, you just gotta be sure they stay aodused up, you don't need a bunch more to do the necessary yanking and banking to get where youre going.
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:yeahthat:

Both parts of this are spot on...
 
I'll agree that the ILS is every IFR pilot's best friend. Especially if you get vectored for the intercept :)
 
Yep, Jesse, me too. Always go for the LPV even if over laid on an ILS. Can't add much to what Ted said. Thunderstorms and ice. Trying to stay proficient is a big one for me too.
 
I have only flown one LPV approach but it was nice. Now we have 2 birds equipped to do them! soon to be three
 
The Most Difficult Parts of IFR Aviation:

  • Justifying the cost of maintaining a personal a/c to rigorous standards required to actually travel in IMC (not the same as training around the home drome).
  • Maintaining the confidence required to be up there all by your lonesome when it all goes bad.
 
dmccormack said:
The Most Difficult Parts of IFR Aviation:

  • Justifying the cost of maintaining a personal a/c to rigorous standards required to actually travel in IMC (not the same as training around the home drome).
  • Maintaining the confidence required to be up there with other people counting on you when it all goes bad.
Click to expand...

FTFY. Just my personal philosophy that it's bad if I kill myself in an airplane. It's worse if I take my family with me. It's worst if they die and I live.
 
TMetzinger said:
FTFY. Just my personal philosophy that it's bad if I kill myself in an airplane. It's worse if I take my family with me. It's worst if they die and I live.
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It's certainly true that others are counting on you, whether you're Single Pilot IFR or you have the whole family on board the Caravan.

I've adjusted my thinking as I've aged. The loss of me will hurt them more than it will me, so I don't see it as graded -- it's all good or real bad.
 
marginal weather.

your go/no-go decisions are now shades of gray instead of b/w.
 
Flying IFR is much easier than VFR.

Every flight is identical, the only thing that changes is the numbers in the box. Other than that you do the same things over and over again and again.
 
TulsaWeather said:
marginal weather.

your go/no-go decisions are now shades of gray instead of b/w.
Click to expand...

This is the punch line of this thread. Once you have the instrument rating you will be tempted to challenge the weather. Don't ever challenge the weather! Ever. Once in possession of the instrument ticket your primary mission is to learn as much about the weather as you can as soon as you can. Take classes at your local community college. Attend FAA and AOPA seminars about weather. Start your new aviation weather library and never stop reading about it. VFR is all about flying while avoiding the weather. IFR is about flying IN the weather and depending on your location it may mean more often than not.

Above all remember that ATC is responsible for keeping you separated from other IFR traffic, not from the weather nor from VFR traffic (except at tower controlled airfields). ATC will provide advice on some weather phenomena and the presence of VFR traffic but ultimately you are responsible for those separations.

Continued VFR flight into IMC is still one of the top killers of GA pilots, and that includes instrument rated pilots. Go figure. I think the best advice I can give you and myself on this score is to file IFR on nearly every flight and get in the habit of planning every trip as if you are launching into hard IMC from takeoff to landing so that the probability of any weather surprises will always be minimal. Just because it is forecasted to be severe clear along the route and the destination, never believe it. Talk to flight watch. They are lonely these days. Brighten up their day and yours. Carry a portable radio and more fuel than the legal minimum. Plan more stops. You'll meet more nice people in the aviation community and see more of the country.
 
kgruber said:
Flying IFR is much easier than VFR.
Click to expand...

Once you get good at it, assuming it's an easy IFR day and nothing goes wrong.

Every flight is identical, the only thing that changes is the numbers in the box. Other than that you do the same things over and over again and again.
Click to expand...

Really? I've flown the same routes dozens of times, and each time has been different. The winds have been different, the clouds (and what's in them) have been different, the icing has been different, what's broken has been different...
 
Ted DuPuis said:
Really? I've flown the same routes dozens of times, and each time has been different. The winds have been different, the clouds (and what's in them) have been different, the icing has been different, what's broken has been different...
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Exactly. The differences remain the same.
 
flyingtexas said:
What do you find is the most difficult procedure or aspect of IFR flying? I'm still in the ground school part of IFR, self-study, and alot of the material appears pretty complex to me, and so wanted to hear some feedback about what the pros think is the most difficult part of flying IFR.

Thanks
Click to expand...

Finding a CFII that will work on my schedule, won't take off on vacations (that's right, multiple and for weeks on end), works with a syllabus, and won't quit after the first 1-2 flights because they've gotten a great job that's not in aviation and don't have time to teach anymore, are competent, aren't out to take me for my entire checkbook,....

Yup - just about everything that can go wrong with finding a CFII has happened to me. I started in 2007, need to take the written *again* and, oh, never mind.
 
TulsaWeather said:
marginal weather.

your go/no-go decisions are now shades of gray instead of b/w.
Click to expand...
Even a VFR pilot has grey areas in their go/nogo or continue/abort decisions. But a pilot flying IFR spends a lot more time flying in the weather vs flying around it. Dealing with that often ends up being the greatest challenge. When you're in VMC you can avoid most nasty weather visually. When your in IMC you have to avoid the nasty stuff mentally.
 
gismo said:
Even a VFR pilot has grey areas in their go/nogo or continue/abort decisions. But a pilot flying IFR spends a lot more time flying in the weather vs flying around it. Dealing with that often ends up being the greatest challenge. When you're in VMC you can avoid most nasty weather visually. When your in IMC you have to avoid the nasty stuff mentally.
Click to expand...

And that can be more difficult, since a number of aircraft don't have the tools to do so.
 
bbchien said:
James, I LOVE your avatar..... :)
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Thanks Doctor. In the 2011 crazy weather year department, we've had a record 75 tornadoes in our part of OK (so far). My avatar makes 76.
 
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