The Improbable Turn

write-stuff

write-stuff

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write-stuff
Live streamed webinar this Thursday, Feb. 8 at 8pm eastern featuring Rod Machado, David St. George and some other guy. It has remained a controversial subject since 1912 (when Wilfred Parke famously tried it and failed). Come join us and be a part of the discussion (and maybe win a new Lightspeed Zulu 3 headset):
www.GoldSealGroundSchool.com/LIVE

 
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Why don't they call it the Parke Turn after the first one to fail at it??
 
Interesting recent example of a Cessna Skyhawk crashing into someone’s front yard despite what appear to be alternate landing sites without a 180 degree return to the airport (no fatality, currently under investigation):

 
I recall being taught to not kick rudder to straighten up an overshot short final leg. So, be coordinated.
 
Cool Russ! I had no idea you were affiliated with Rod Machado.
 
Hehe... Nah, Rod's just a friend. No formal affiliation. Regarding McCartney and Elvis, I used to play with the Beatles and got to know Elvis when he came to one of our shows.
 
8 Eastern tonight. Be there or be square! :D
 
mscard88 said:
8 Eastern tonight. Be there or be square! :D
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I was actually looking forward to it but I think I was either passed out again, or that may have been around the time I was texting Karen about dinner plans... don’t recall. Most of this week is gone in a fog anyway.

After sleeping on and off for four days straight, now I’m getting some energy back... just in time to not be able to go to sleep tonight and here I am at 1AM... or just before anyway.
 
@denverpilot If you go to @write-stuff 's site it's there. Anxious to try the maneuver, at altitude of course. A good option to have. It was a very informative and enjoyable webinar. Check it out Nate, you'd like it.
 
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I watched it. Enjoyable as I suspected.

I still wonder if this has the potential to encourage undertrained pilots to attempt it when they’d be better off not.

But that’s a recurring debate that we probably don’t have to replay here for the umpteenth time.
 
FastEddieB said:
I watched it. Enjoyable as I suspected.

I still wonder if this has the potential to encourage undertrained pilots to attempt it when they’d be better off not.

But that’s a recurring debate that we probably don’t have to replay here for the umpteenth time.
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Funny you say that. I was wondering if I should expose a student to it or not. As a last resort, as y'all stressed, I feel they should have that knowledge as an option if there's no where else to land it.
 
FastEddieB said:
I watched it. Enjoyable as I suspected.

I still wonder if this has the potential to encourage undertrained pilots to attempt it when they’d be better off not.

But that’s a recurring debate that we probably don’t have to replay here for the umpteenth time.
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I kept hearing them emphasize to use it if there are no alternatives, but practice at safe altitude til you know the numbers where it would work out. Familiarity with the surrounding terrain before takeoff is key. I intend to do this from now on for unfamiliar fields. Bertorelli has demonstrated it can be done.
 
mscard88 said:
As a last resort, as y'all stressed, I feel they should have that knowledge as an option if there's no where else to land it.
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Against my better judgement...

When things get real quiet real fast, a pilot will tend to fall back on reflexes - there's precious little time to make a real choice.

I guess if the decision is made on the ground, fine. Otherwise, if the last training you had was repeated attempts to return to an airport, that will likely be your response under stress.

But I understand the arguments on both sides, so its not like I'm planting a flag.
 
Seemed to be a very balanced presentation.

It can be done if you're proficient and thoughtful before launching. Otherwise, no.

I thought the parts about turning to other available runways or places ON the airport (taxiway, open areas, etc) and considering the wind in your turn were important reminders.

Overall nice presentation.

Thanks!
 
Very well done and some great info and things to consider. Thanks for arranging this


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
In watching the presentation, I took note of the guideline developed by Barry Schiff, that you need to have two-thirds of your turn-around height by the time you cross the departure end of the runway. I am puzzled by this, because based on the graphic below, it looks like that would only be sufficient when the climb angle exceeds the glide angle by a fair amount. Depending on such factors as the aircraft, the winds, and the density altitude, that condition may or may not exist.

Turnback Rule of Thumb - Ed Williams.png

http://edwilliams.org/turnback_seminar_Oct_2008.pdf (See page 28.)

The presentation makes the point that factors need to be considered before takeoff in order to determine whether a turnback would be possible under existing conditions. I would have liked to see more discussion on how to make that determination. For example, I summarized what I have been taught on that in a previous thread:

https://www.pilotsofamerica.com/community/threads/impossible-turn-practice.41993/#post-716709
 
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