The guillotine

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woxof

Pre-takeoff checklist
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woxof
Sometimes when one reads about off-airport landings, there will be a statement about how the wings hitting trees dissipates energy and helps you slow down while the fuselage remains fairly intact.. I suppose any obstacle might.

I read this statement from a glider pilot about off airport landings which I found interesting and was wondering if you might have an opinion on this critical detail.......

"It's better to hit a fence post head-on than try to squeeze between them. The wires between the fence posts can act like a guillotine."
 
Possible I suppose... though glider is lower to the ground that a typical GA plane. I think I’m mu cessna 140 if I was on roll put in an emergency landing and a fence was inevitable I’d try for between the posts
 
woxof said:
Sometimes when one reads about off-airport landings, there will be a statement about how the wings hitting trees dissipates energy and helps you slow down while the fuselage remains fairly intact.. I suppose any obstacle might.

I read this statement from a glider pilot about off airport landings which I found interesting and was wondering if you might have an opinion on this critical detail.......

"It's better to hit a fence post head-on than try to squeeze between them. The wires between the fence posts can act like a guillotine."
Click to expand...

The potential there is the nose of the glider getting under a wire, then the wire sliding up and getting under the canopy.
 
I'm also not worried about fencing between trees in the middle of the woods. And that fencing is probably going to get stopped by my prop whether the prop is spinning or not.
 
Matthew said:
The potential there is the nose of the glider getting under a wire, then the wire sliding up and getting under the canopy.
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Wouldn't that depend on whether the canopy is forward hinged, side hinged, rear hinged or sliding?
 
asicer said:
Wouldn't that depend on whether the canopy is forward hinged, side hinged, rear hinged or sliding?
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I guess, but the gliders I flew didn’t have an A pillar like an airplane, so the only thing between you and a wire that’s sliding your way is plexiglass. I don’t know if it’s ever happened, but it’s something that’s talked about.
 
Wires.?? I ain't afraid of no stinkin' wires.....

Crop-Duster.jpg


I don't the story behind this but I wish I did.!!
 
In most airplanes you have an engine, propeller, and some substantial structure in front of you. Gliders, not so much.

Ag pilots frequently fly under wires to treat the fields crossed by them.
 
Zeldman said:
Wires.?? I ain't afraid of no stinkin' wires.....

Crop-Duster.jpg


I don't the story behind this but I wish I did.!!
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This scenario could be real, but I’m pretty sure the photo is faked.
 
I went through a wire (electric) fence on an emergency landing. I'd have minimal damage had I not hit the post.
 
woxof said:
"It's better to hit a fence post head-on than try to squeeze between them. The wires between the fence posts can act like a guillotine."
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Posts are generally only about 17 ft apart or less, on barbed wire, which is what it seems the OP would be referencing. Certainly on most planes you will hit 2 of them if you try to go in between. I would think many gliders often have wingspans longer than 35 ft, so hitting the post would mean you could hit three posts.
 
Wire can be a heck of a structure cutter, depending on how much tension it’s under at the time of impact. Had a distant relative that left a T-6 hanging on a phone cable out in west Texas in the early 60’s, with no damage. Cable hardly had any tension on it. Have seen where cables had lots of tension on them and tore deep into structures. Look at videos of tow trucks pulling vehicles out of highway cable barriers some time for a idea at how much damage they can cause and not fail.
 
In a glider it might be true. A glider doesn't have a prop and engine to rip through wires.
Next time I get to GBR I'll post a picture of one of the Cubs. The pilot ran it between two trees to avoid a deer on the runway.
Damage to both wings, but the fuselage is intact.
 
Salty said:
This scenario could be real, but I’m pretty sure the photo is faked.
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I don't know about that specific photo, but crop dusters flying under power lines is not uncommon. I've seen it more than once personally. I'm surprised Air Tractor doesn't use a side stick to make room for the pilot's balls.
 
Jim K said:
I don't know about that specific photo, but crop dusters flying under power lines is not uncommon. I've seen it more than once personally. I'm surprised Air Tractor doesn't use a side stick to make room for the pilot's balls.
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Oh I agree. The photo just looked suspect to me. The shutter speed was fast enough to nearly freeze the prop, but there's a lot of blur on the poles. It just looked odd to me at first glance. Looking at it more, I'd go the other way and say if it's not real, somebody spent a long time making it look real.
 
Shepherd said:
In a glider it might be true. A glider doesn't have a prop and engine to rip through wires.
Next time I get to GBR I'll post a picture of one of the Cubs. The pilot ran it between two trees to avoid a deer on the runway.
Damage to both wings, but the fuselage is intact.
Click to expand...

At Vandenburg AFB, the indoctrination brief says "Hit the deer." The alternative is to drive off the side of a cliff.
 
Salty said:
Oh I agree. The photo just looked suspect to me. The shutter speed was fast enough to nearly freeze the prop, but there's a lot of blur on the poles. It just looked odd to me at first glance. Looking at it more, I'd go the other way and say if it's not real, somebody spent a long time making it look real.
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Either real or the best Photoshop ever. Looks like a carefully planned shot with professional equipment but ya never know. And then there's this: https://kxrb.com/crop-dusting-pilot-killed-in-crash-in-south-dakota/
 
Salty said:
This scenario could be real, but I’m pretty sure the photo is faked.
Click to expand...

Possibly faked, but cool enough to get my attention.!! Or it could just be the angle of the shot to make it look more crowded than it really is.

Piperonca said:
Either real or the best Photoshop ever. Looks like a carefully planned shot with professional equipment but ya never know. And then there's this: https://kxrb.com/crop-dusting-pilot-killed-in-crash-in-south-dakota/
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Oh man, I hope this is not the guy in the picture.
 
Zeldman said:
Wires.?? I ain't afraid of no stinkin' wires.....

Crop-Duster.jpg


I don't the story behind this but I wish I did.!!
Click to expand...

Man, that picture is literally the stuff of my nightmares. Well, maybe not "nightmares" exactly, because they're not particularly frightening, but a recurring dream I have where I'm dodging power lines and just can't climb over them no matter how much I try. I asked some other pilots if they have this type of dream and about 8/10 said yes, pretty much identical.
 
RussR said:
Man, that picture is literally the stuff of my nightmares. Well, maybe not "nightmares" exactly, because they're not particularly frightening, but a recurring dream I have where I'm dodging power lines and just can't climb over them no matter how much I try. I asked some other pilots if they have this type of dream and about 8/10 said yes, pretty much identical.
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Add me to that list. No matter which ones you get over, there's another set higher up. Horrible.

Another recurring nightmare is all of a sudden finding myself flying over a very busy airport with lots of traffic, and no radio contact, not even an idea of the right frequency. Thinking I am in a heap of trouble for sure.
 
Zeldman said:
Possibly faked, but cool enough to get my attention.!! Or it could just be the angle of the shot to make it look more crowded than it really is.

Oh man, I hope this is not the guy in the picture.
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Quick search on the interwebs says the news article using that photo is bogus--the aircraft never in an accident.
 
RussR said:
Man, that picture is literally the stuff of my nightmares. Well, maybe not "nightmares" exactly, because they're not particularly frightening, but a recurring dream I have where I'm dodging power lines and just can't climb over them no matter how much I try. I asked some other pilots if they have this type of dream and about 8/10 said yes, pretty much identical.
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That's interesting. I've had that dream, too. Somehow I end up low, then there are power lines I have to fly under, but every time I think I can climb I see more.
 
Piperonca said:
Add me to that list. No matter which ones you get over, there's another set higher up. Horrible.

Another recurring nightmare is all of a sudden finding myself flying over a very busy airport with lots of traffic, and no radio contact, not even an idea of the right frequency. Thinking I am in a heap of trouble for sure.
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Thanks! I just created another thread with a poll on this:

https://www.pilotsofamerica.com/com...le-to-climb-over-powerlines-buildings.128283/
 
RussR said:
Man, that picture is literally the stuff of my nightmares. Well, maybe not "nightmares" exactly, because they're not particularly frightening, but a recurring dream I have where I'm dodging power lines and just can't climb over them no matter how much I try. I asked some other pilots if they have this type of dream and about 8/10 said yes, pretty much identical.
Click to expand...

Thought I was the only one.... interesting that this kind of dream is so common.
 
Zeldman said:
Wires.?? I ain't afraid of no stinkin' wires.....

Crop-Duster.jpg


I don't the story behind this but I wish I did.!!
Click to expand...


I see crop dusters zipping under power lines all the time, although that does look like a pretty dense area of them.
 
Dan Thomas said:
Telephoto lenses will do that.
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That’s one of the things that bugs me. If it’s real, that’s an incredible shot with a telephoto lens.
 
Let'sgoflying! said:
In a real emergency, few pilots will have the skill or opportunity to choose post/not post.
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I was going to say, at low altitude and energy your options become limited to hitting whatever's in front of you and hoping for the best. Keep the airplane under control and things are likely to be a lot better in the end.
 
In the 60's a friend of mine tried to take off out of an alfalfa field with his 1947 Cessna 140. He did not get enough airspeed to clear a barb wire fence and caught the top two wires. They folded his main gear back. In addition to costing a few bucks the FAA gave him a month off.
 
Salty said:
Oh I agree. The photo just looked suspect to me. The shutter speed was fast enough to nearly freeze the prop, but there's a lot of blur on the poles. It just looked odd to me at first glance. Looking at it more, I'd go the other way and say if it's not real, somebody spent a long time making it look real.
Click to expand...


The blurring of the poles looks to me like defocus, not motion. That would imply the poles are farther apart than it appears and a long telephoto was used.
 
Zeldman said:
Wires.?? I ain't afraid of no stinkin' wires.....

Crop-Duster.jpg


I don't the story behind this but I wish I did.!!
Click to expand...

Nice enough photo, shame the pilot is not smiling and waving to the camera.
 
Half Fast said:
The blurring of the poles looks to me like defocus, not motion. That would imply the poles are farther apart than it appears and a long telephoto was used.
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I agree, but damn the plane is crazy crisp focus for an action shot with motion 90 degrees off and a lens that long.
 
When you swing a camera with a long telephoto to match the speed of the moving object (like swinging a shotgun shooting skeet), stationary objects will blur. If you did not swing the camera, the moving object would blur.
 
CarlH said:
When you swing a camera with a long telephoto to match the speed of the moving object (like swinging a shotgun shooting skeet), stationary objects will blur. If you did not swing the camera, the moving object would blur.
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I am more than aware of this fact. I’m also more than aware of how difficult it is to get that shot with a long lens, a slow enough shutter to cause that much blur, and still get the subject in perfect focus with zero blur, when it is moving that fast. You can’t pan the camera a tiny bit too slowly, or a tiny bit too fast, or the subject will not be that crisp. It’s an incredible shot IMO. Or an incredible fake ;)
 
flyingron said:
I went through a wire (electric) fence on an emergency landing. I'd have minimal damage had I not hit the post.
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If it is a wood post, hitting the post may cause more damage, but on a barbed wire fence you could have the advantage of knocking the post down and riding over the top, thus preventing the decapitation scenario. An electric fence is often lighter gage wire and will most likely snap and not cause the decapitation.

Half Fast said:
The blurring of the poles looks to me like defocus, not motion. That would imply the poles are farther apart than it appears and a long telephoto was used.
Click to expand...

Salty said:
I agree, but damn the plane is crazy crisp focus for an action shot with motion 90 degrees off and a lens that long.
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Salty said:
You can’t pan the camera a tiny bit too slowly, or a tiny bit too fast, or the subject will not be that crisp. It’s an incredible shot IMO. Or an incredible fake
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I believe the shot is real. A good professional photographer would get that shot. (speaking from 20+ years experience) It was probably taken with high quality expensive equipment, ie lens and camera. The photographer probably had multiple chances as well. If he was spraying a field, he was making multiple passes. He would have followed the plane, and just needed to time his shutter. He would also have the ability to take 9 or even more frames per second with some cameras, just by holding down the shutter button. The prop is stopped, so shutter speed is extremely fast. that is why the only real blur is the depth of field.
 
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