The fear is driving me…

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RogerThat

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Roger Mussa
Hello all,
Long time lurker and first post. Reading a lot of knowledge is super helpful and encouraging.

I took the step towards my PPL.
I have flown commercial since a baby but about 15 years ago I developed a phobia of turbulence and I was a wreck during turbulence but mostly worried about it happening. Since then I have trained and worked on my mind to the point that I am fine with it on a commercial flight.

The fear of turbulence still exists and in my first few hours of training it does bring me anxiety and worry. I don’t worry about the plane falling, my fear is the unexpected jolt up and down that brings me to cringe and get a fear in my stomach (not to the point of throwing up buy plain anxiety and fear).
I know it is totally psychological and I wonder if I am in control of the plane whether this fear can be lessened. Time will tell.

But my fascination of flying and my desire to conquer this fear has kept me going so far. I imagine, and read, that this could subside over time.

Just wanted to chime in, happy to be here and soak up all this site and board has to offer.

Thanks for reading, I’ll get off my soap box now.
RM
 
I don't have an answer about it, but I do acknowledge that phobias are real.... I get it from heights

You might look into NLP (Neuro Linguistic Programming). I took a course in it years ago. Went into it reluctantly, thinking it was extremely silly. Turns out I changed my impression of it. I think that it can be quite powerful for some things like this. Sadly I've forgotten most of what I learned.

The only other thing I can add is that I think pushing through a fear and doing it over and over can sometimes help...puts things into perspective I suppose. It doesn't completely go away but it helps in my experience
 
I don't like turbulence. not at all. It'll tire me out.

It's my understanding that people have different levels of comfort/discomfort with the bumps and all. And that people (or at least most people) can develop some level of tolerance for the bumps and all. Part of it is getting beyond the anxiety/stress of lessons and all the new experiences thrown at the new student pilot. Part of it can be being the one with your hands on the stick/yoke. Part of it can be the knowledge that experience gives that the plane will ride through the bumps/whatever just fine (don't try to react to every single bump/wing rock).

Paying attention to the preflight weather can help know when the flight will be relatively smooth and when there can be a few bumps.

Good luck... and don't let a few bumps deter you from a passion.
 
I don’t think many of us like turbulence. As Bob said, it tires you out. Like everything, the more you do, the better you get at handling it. I find that just having my hand in the stick & being in control of the plane helps a lot in how I feel about bumps. I tolerate a lot more than if I were the passenger (which is the reason I keep an eye on my wife’s reaction to gauge when to quit for the day.).

The air is normally smoothest just after dawn & just before sunset. A lot of pilots prefer to train then.
 
Brad W said:
I don't have an answer about it, but I do acknowledge that phobias are real.... I get it from heights

You might look into NLP (Neuro Linguistic Programming). I took a course in it years ago. Went into it reluctantly, thinking it was extremely silly. Turns out I changed my impression of it. I think that it can be quite powerful for some things like this. Sadly I've forgotten most of what I learned.

The only other thing I can add is that I think pushing through a fear and doing it over and over can sometimes help...puts things into perspective I suppose. It doesn't completely go away but it helps in my experience
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Thanks for the note.
In regards to NLP, I have thought of seeking some kind of “treatment” but never enough to look into any. This is something I will look into.
I agree, for me the unknown is also lessened by me learning and obsessing to learn. That helps me.
 
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Joe_B1 said:
Find a big rollercoaster and ride it until you are cured.
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Absolutely not! My entire life this has been a hard no. LOL
But I never thought I’d be in a small plane either.
 
rhkennerly said:
I don’t think many of us like turbulence. As Bob said, it tires you out. Like everything, the more you do, the better you get at handling it. I find that just having my hand in the stick & being in control of the plane helps a lot in how I feel about bumps. I tolerate a lot more than if I were the passenger (which is the reason I keep an eye on my wife’s reaction to gauge when to quit for the day.).

The air is normally smoothest just after dawn & just before sunset. A lot of pilots prefer to train then.
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My problem is hard unexpected jolts and the up, mainly down, feeling I get. And I fear, dislike and worry about it.
Much like when I’m a passenger in a car going up and down a hill, when I am behind the wheel the anxiety is dramatically reduced. Perhaps the in control factor and knowledge of what’s ahead is the difference. The difference I am hoping will help me behind the yoke.
I do plan my lessons early am, which helps at least in the beginning while I develop that confidence. If windy enough, I can a,wys chose to skip a flight. I am not in a rush.
 
RogerThat said:
Hello all,
Long time lurker and first post. Reading a lot of knowledge is super helpful and encouraging.

I took the step towards my PPL.
I have flown commercial since a baby but about 15 years ago I developed a phobia of turbulence and I was a wreck during turbulence but mostly worried about it happening. Since then I have trained and worked on my mind to the point that I am fine with it on a commercial flight.

The fear of turbulence still exists and in my first few hours of training it does bring me anxiety and worry. I don’t worry about the plane falling, my fear is the unexpected jolt up and down that brings me to cringe and get a fear in my stomach (not to the point of throwing up buy plain anxiety and fear).
I know it is totally psychological and I wonder if I am in control of the plane whether this fear can be lessened. Time will tell.

But my fascination of flying and my desire to conquer this fear has kept me going so far. I imagine, and read, that this could subside over time.

Just wanted to chime in, happy to be here and soak up all this site and board has to offer.

Thanks for reading, I’ll get off my soap box now.
RM
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"Fly the turbulence". That's what my CFI told me on the briefing after my discovery flight. We got some big ones, but the guy didn't even paid attention to it, he was busy flying the plane and talking to ATC. He also told me something like "You can't control the turbulence, but you can control the plane, and the plane will get you out of there".
My take from it is that your mind should be busy flying the plane, so try to focus on that. I know it sounds easier than what it is. Don't try to hide your fear, just put it in the back seat while you control the plane in a turbulence.
 
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Luckily, turbulence never bothered me at all, not one bit. But I had anxiety before each flight, processing the emergencies and possibilities of mechanical failure. Once I pushed the throttle forward it all goes away as I lift off the runway. I guess I just say a prayer, and if it is my day then that is the day for me. Thinking about it is not fun, but once I commit lift I am happy about life again. Landings and putting the plane away always finds me with a smile on my face. That is the joy of flight for me, and I do struggle with the "just go do it" from time to time. Feel your groove and if you enjoy it at the end of the day, then keep doing it.
 
RogerThat said:
Absolutely not! My entire life this has been a hard no. LOL
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I'm with ya on that....I've been on a (small) rollercoaster once... never again. Not even with a gun to my head. forget about it. I wasn't afraid of falling out and such, but absolutely HATED the ride.
 
RogerThat said:
Absolutely not! My entire life this has been a hard no. LOL
But I never thought I’d be in a small plane either.
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I actually think joe_b1 makes a good point. I've always been afraid of heights. So bad that my head swims in certain situations.
Years ago I was like you ...a hard no for roller coasters.
but back when I was in college, I went to Carowinds, forced myself to ride that viking ship pendulum thing...you know, it swings back and forth getting higher...higher...higher...untill it goes inverted and pauses before continuing on around....
I road that thing a bunch of times in a row and it did help a bit.
Sis a similar thing in the paper mill I worked at...would force myself to go up to those high places to do things I needed to do for work...those walkways several storries up made out of grating that you see right through...stuff like that.
Didn't eliminate my fear but it did help me to at least be able to function in some situations.
 
RogerThat said:
Hello all,
Long time lurker and first post. Reading a lot of knowledge is super helpful and encouraging.

I took the step towards my PPL.
I have flown commercial since a baby but about 15 years ago I developed a phobia of turbulence and I was a wreck during turbulence but mostly worried about it happening. Since then I have trained and worked on my mind to the point that I am fine with it on a commercial flight.

The fear of turbulence still exists and in my first few hours of training it does bring me anxiety and worry. I don’t worry about the plane falling, my fear is the unexpected jolt up and down that brings me to cringe and get a fear in my stomach (not to the point of throwing up buy plain anxiety and fear).
I know it is totally psychological and I wonder if I am in control of the plane whether this fear can be lessened. Time will tell.

But my fascination of flying and my desire to conquer this fear has kept me going so far. I imagine, and read, that this could subside over time.

Just wanted to chime in, happy to be here and soak up all this site and board has to offer.

Thanks for reading, I’ll get off my soap box now.
RM
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There are different kinds of turbulence. The discomfort comes mostly from feeling not in control of the aircraft. A light chop turbulence is not any different than driving on a gravel road. I kinda enjoy that turbulence. It's like getting a chair massage. Turbulence associated with windshear is what causes the greatest discomfort for me. That is when the aircraft is doing something completely unexpected.

Having said that, I am a bit confused why you are flying in conditions that produce 'unexpected jolts up and down' in your first few hours. Atleast for the first 5 hours I would not take up a student in other than very smooth conditions.
 
Brad W said:
I actually think joe_b1 makes a good point. I've always been afraid of heights. So bad that my head swims in certain situations.
Years ago I was like you ...a hard no for roller coasters.
but back when I was in college, I went to Carowinds, forced myself to ride that viking ship pendulum thing...you know, it swings back and forth getting higher...higher...higher...untill it goes inverted and pauses before continuing on around....
I road that thing a bunch of times in a row and it did help a bit.
Sis a similar thing in the paper mill I worked at...would force myself to go up to those high places to do things I needed to do for work...those walkways several storries up made out of grating that you see right through...stuff like that.
Didn't eliminate my fear but it did help me to at least be able to function in some situations.
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I’m a knowledge and process driven person.
Knowledge helps me finally go into something (I watched Disney Test track videos till I knew what I was getting into stepped in line, with clammy hands. After one ride, went on it 10 more times)
Before I expect to get rid of this “issue”, i need to deal with it. I also have an ability, over time, to work on my mind and that has helped me be through things.
 
sarangan said:
There are different kinds of turbulence. The discomfort comes mostly from feeling not in control of the aircraft. A light chop turbulence is not any different than driving on a gravel road. I kinda enjoy that turbulence. It's like getting a chair massage. Turbulence associated with windshear is what causes the greatest discomfort for me. That is when the aircraft is doing something completely unexpected.

Having said that, I am a bit confused why you are flying in conditions that produce 'unexpected jolts up and down' in your first few hours. Atleast for the first 5 hours I would not take up a student in other than very smooth conditions.
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No, I am not flying in anything like that. Yet.
Just the typical bumps with a little extra when heading back. Definitely nothing out of the ordinary, but enough for me to fear the unexpected and the feeling I will get. As you said, I am moving on hoping practice and control will make a big difference over time.
 
Don’t mention it to a dr lol

do you live in turbulence land? Earlier post about dawn is very true. Find an early rising cfi and get your time in. Eventually you’ll fly into a windier time of day but you’ll be more comfortable by then
 
Randomskylane said:
Don’t mention it to a dr lol

do you live in turbulence land? Earlier post about dawn is very true. Find an early rising cfi and get your time in. Eventually you’ll fly into a windier time of day but you’ll be more comfortable by then
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I live in Southern NJ, and thats the hope...eventually I'll hit worse and by then be more comfortable.

This has been helpful hearing all this feedback.
 
Rgbeard said:
If your fear is centered around structural failure, consider this:

View attachment 105867
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Zero fear of structural failure.
Its the feeling of dropping, and the fear of waiting for it to happen. Totally psychological, I probably need some hypnosis or something. I hate the feeling and fear it.... sometimes it happens, sometimes not. But I fear and have anxiety.
 
RogerThat said:
Zero fear of structural failure.
Its the feeling of dropping, and the fear of waiting for it to happen. Totally psychological, I probably need some hypnosis or something. I hate the feeling and fear it.... sometimes it happens, sometimes not. But I fear and have anxiety.
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I’m sure there’s a pill for that. :rolleyes::D
 
RogerThat said:
Zero fear of structural failure.
Its the feeling of dropping, and the fear of waiting for it to happen. Totally psychological, I probably need some hypnosis or something. I hate the feeling and fear it.... sometimes it happens, sometimes not. But I fear and have anxiety.
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Turbulence is a great opportunity to focus on heading and altitude.
 
Years ago flying in ultralight type planes I found that flying next to a friend and watching the effects of turbulence on his plane helped me see and understand what was happening from outside the cockpit. Viewing the ups and downs as not being nearly as radical as they felt inside the plane made it easier for me to come to grips with turbulence. I still don't like it though ...
 
Daleandee said:
Years ago flying in ultralight type planes I found that flying next to a friend and watching the effects of turbulence on his plane helped me see and understand what was happening from outside the cockpit. Viewing the ups and downs as not being nearly as radical as they felt inside the plane made it easier for me to come to grips with turbulence. I still don't like it though ...
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Interesting strategy. Although not as volatile, my mind feels it is much worse I suppose.
I still won’t go on a rollecoaster with my family. just saying. LOL
 
RogerThat said:
Zero fear of structural failure.
Its the feeling of dropping, and the fear of waiting for it to happen. Totally psychological, I probably need some hypnosis or something. I hate the feeling and fear it.... sometimes it happens, sometimes not. But I fear and have anxiety.
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Suggest you read the attached... Sub-gravity sensations and gliding accidents. Derek Piggott.
 

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It's an interesting read, but it doesn't seem very scientific to me. The author starts out with a list of unexplained events, then tosses out what he's basically describing as a psychological disorder as if it's fact. I know psychology barely meets the cut of actually being science, but that seemed pushing it a bit to me. To me the evidence points to poor training, not a type of normal human failing. His recommendations seem a bit backwards as well. Again, just my opinion, but it sounds like people need some actual stall training. Not "until the stall horn goes off" training, but to stall the aircraft until you can feel the descent.
 
Albany Tom said:
It's an interesting read, but it doesn't seem very scientific to me. The author starts out with a list of unexplained events, then tosses out what he's basically describing as a psychological disorder as if it's fact. I know psychology barely meets the cut of actually being science, but that seemed pushing it a bit to me. To me the evidence points to poor training, not a type of normal human failing. His recommendations seem a bit backwards as well. Again, just my opinion, but it sounds like people need some actual stall training. Not "until the stall horn goes off" training, but to stall the aircraft until you can feel the descent.
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Tom, I would 100% agree with your comments and opinion as well.

For me, scientific or not, it is helpful in the sense that as I try to "rationalize" my issues having a different point of view helps me look at this in a different way.
I would also venture to say others like myself will find it helpful.

Every little bit of knowledge, understanding or in this case a different view helps. Ill take anything with me to my next flight LOL
 
Your fear will have to be overcome, otherwise you will have ended up wasting a lot of money. Even if you plan on early morning or early evening with less winds. You can’t plan you entire flying life on those two little timeframes. My advice would to be put your effort into overcoming the fear and put the training aspect on the back burner.
 
TommyG said:
Your fear will have to be overcome, otherwise you will have ended up wasting a lot of money. Even if you plan on early morning or early evening with less winds. You can’t plan you entire flying life on those two little timeframes. My advice would to be put your effort into overcoming the fear and put the training aspect on the back burner.
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100% my thinking.

I have 5 hours of carefully planned early flying. That isn't nearly enough sample size.
My next one is scheduled for afternoon. I will know once I get bumpy if it isn't for me and save time, money and disappointment.
 
RogerThat said:
100% my thinking.

I have 5 hours of carefully planned early flying. That isn't nearly enough sample size.
My next one is scheduled for afternoon. I will know once I get bumpy if it isn't for me and save time, money and disappointment.
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There are two fears as a pilot, the healthy fear of Flying CAN be dangerous, so let me do what is in my power to make flying safe. The second fear is the unhealthy fear that is paralyzing. The constant fear that something will go wrong that you will not be able to fix a situation because you are frozen with fear.

Which one do you have, and can you overcome it?
 
This sounds like my wife's reaction to turb. Frightened her for a while until we flew in enough of it. Once she realized the airplane wasn't going to drop from the sky, she was fine with it. Now, she even likes it...up to a point. Still doesn't like the sock in a dryer treatment...but neither do I.
 
TommyG said:
There are two fears as a pilot, the healthy fear of Flying CAN be dangerous, so let me do what is in my power to make flying safe. The second fear is the unhealthy fear that is paralyzing. The constant fear that something will go wrong that you will not be able to fix a situation because you are frozen with fear.

Which one do you have, and can you overcome it?
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This is exactly what I am trying to understand and determine.
Yes, I have a fear and utter dislike of "drops", more the unexpected. I can "deal" with expected drops much much better. That being said, I worry it will happen - again, less and less.

To your point, I need to determine if it is the "paralyzing" form which is dangerous to the point it will be a deal breaker for me thus having a CFI along is the insurance as I navigate this.

As I mentioned before, there is a psychological control issue meaning if I am in control , I am able to react. Perfect example, last flight as we were descending and lining up it was super bumpy.... I noticed my focus shifted from the bumps to the runway, lining up, watching my CFI control the yoke and rudders, etc.
This suggests to me that it is something I could work through.
 
RogerThat said:
This is exactly what I am trying to understand and determine.
Yes, I have a fear and utter dislike of "drops", more the unexpected. I can "deal" with expected drops much much better. That being said, I worry it will happen - again, less and less.

To your point, I need to determine if it is the "paralyzing" form which is dangerous to the point it will be a deal breaker for me thus having a CFI along is the insurance as I navigate this.

As I mentioned before, there is a psychological control issue meaning if I am in control , I am able to react. Perfect example, last flight as we were descending and lining up it was super bumpy.... I noticed my focus shifted from the bumps to the runway, lining up, watching my CFI control the yoke and rudders, etc.
This suggests to me that it is something I could work through.
Click to expand...

This shows a normal level of building comfort to those bumps. Ride the waves and fly the plane is game. So if you know you are able to do that on the flight, you should have it in your head you can overcome it.
 
Try skydiving. Yes, there's a feel of a drop at the beginning, but your brain will associate that with fun (hopefully).
 
Updating this thread… (feedback has been super helpful)

added another 1.5 hours today s weather hasn’t cooperated. Nor has life.
10 kts winds and rolling ocean fog which caused me and my CFI to be aware.

I noticed my “anxiety” shifted. It built once we got cleared to take off, during rotation and climb till level off. I must say, a different anxiety and not a panic one.
The motor flight, maneuvers and heading back i felt my mind shifted from a worry to enjoyment and wanting to learn. I didn’t want to come back.

Most importantly todays lesson a lot more made sense. As I mentioned before, knowledge and comfort helps me tremendously and it’s starting to click.
A lot of hours and conditions left but I feel today I made meaningful (enough) progress.

* still no skydiving yet!
 
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I watched the video of my wife skydiving. That's as close as I ever plan to get.

As I understand it concerning skydiving ... if at first you don't succeed, it ain't for you.
 
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