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WildBlueYonder

Filing Flight Plan
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WildBlueYonder
Question I've yet to be able to fully get an answer on.

I'm starting my foray into the fun process of getting ready to go for my PPL. I've always had 20/20 vision, a couple months ago at my personal eye exam it was 20/20. I just did my first ever flight physical today and was told I couldn't have class 2 because I didn't meet the vision requirements. The test was given with that crappy little machine you look into with aged yellow discs as opposed to a normal eye chart. I got most of the smallest line and when asked to do the line above it, got all of them. I'm not sure which level is what, I assume the bottom level is 20/20 or 20/15?

Anyway, I was given a class 3 but in there the AME wrote I need to wear corrective lenses. I don't have corrective lenses because as of 2 months ago I had 20/20...

My question is, if I go into an optometrist/optomologist (whatever the eyecare place I go to who does all the tests) with an FAA 8500-7, score a 20/20 and have them fill it out, can I override the limitations the AME gave me?

Can I find another AME and go in with my 8500-7 and have them give me the level 2?

Granted this is all making the assumption I didn't lose my eyesight over the course of 2 months from 20/20 to... whatever apparently stopped me from getting a class 2.
 
I’d find an AME that will accept the 8500-7 and ask if they want it done by an optometrist or ophthalmologist, do the eye exam, and get the Class 2.

That’ll be the only way to get the corrective lens limitation removed anyways. It’s going to be hard to convince a CFI or DPE you don’t need corrective lenses if the limitation is there, so the choice is lenses without a correction applied or get it corrected.
 
TCABM said:
I’d find an AME that will accept the 8500-7 and ask if they want it done by an optometrist or ophthalmologist, do the eye exam, and get the Class 2.

That’ll be the only way to get the corrective lens limitation removed anyways. It’s going to be hard to convince a CFI or DPE you don’t need corrective lenses if the limitation is there, so the choice is lenses without a correction applied or get it corrected.
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Thank you for the response. This was my first AME, is it frowned on to find another AME and go in with the 8500-7 a week later to get it corrected? Will that annoy the FAA? Etc.?

After all I have no glasses and if I go to a real eye doc and they say I’m 20/20, they aren’t going to give me glasses, so I’d have nothing to wear lol.
 
If you can pass as 20/20 with an eye doctor, you should also be able to pass as 20/20 with an AME. I’m not sure what the discrepancy is, but I suspect you aren’t 20/20.
 
Could be, I was in November 2023, which is what was odd. Either way if I'm not, I need glasses and since I was 20\20 2 months ago I don't have any, so need an eye doc to prescribe them.
 
WildBlueYonder said:
Could be, I was in November 2023, which is what was odd. Either way if I'm not, I need glasses and since I was 20\20 2 months ago I don't have any, so need an eye doc to prescribe them.
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The only difference between a first or second class and a third class is the addition of a 32” intermediate vision value of 20/40 or better in each eye for those over 50.

None of that really matters though as the limitation exists on your medical. It’s up to you to comply or get it removed. Just saying 20/20 isn’t compliance.

IIRC, i̵f̵ ̵y̵o̵u̵’̵r̵e̵ ̵w̵i̵t̵h̵i̵n̵ ̵3̵0̵ ̵d̵a̵y̵s̵ ̵o̵r̵ ̵s̵o̵ ̵o̵f̵ ̵A̵M̵E̵ ̵e̵x̵a̵m̵,̵ ̵I̵ ̵b̵e̵l̵i̵e̵v̵e̵ ̵t̵h̵e̵y̵ ̵c̵a̵n̵ ̵u̵p̵g̵r̵a̵d̵e̵ ̵t̵h̵e̵ ̵m̵e̵d̵i̵c̵a̵l̵ ̵i̵n̵ ̵t̵h̵e̵ ̵s̵y̵s̵t̵e̵m̵,̵ ̵b̵u̵t̵ ̵y̵o̵u̵’̵l̵l̵ ̵l̵i̵k̵e̵l̵y̵ ̵h̵e̵ ̵p̵a̵y̵i̵n̵g̵ ̵f̵o̵r̵ ̵t̵h̵e̵ ̵e̵x̵a̵m̵ ̵a̵g̵a̵i̵n̵.

ETA: Bruce clarified below; no new issuance for 90 days.
 
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Yeah definitely. I'm curious what it was, the AME didn't tell me, only that I couldn't get a class 2? which since I"m under 50, not sure what it was. I'll reach out to the AME today, I have an optometrist or whatnot appt tomorrow to either get it corrected or to get a script for glasses.

Before I bother the AME do you (or anyone) happen to know if I can go somewhere to see what everything was (for example my eyes) on the exam? The only thing I received from the AME was a piece of paper he signed that is my Med Cert 3rd class.The limitations says "Must use corrective Lens(es) to meet vision standards at all required distances." Of course I don't know what didn't meet the requirements so... kinda difficult to meet!
 
Before posting here, I would have just found a different AME. Did he even say what your vision is currently?
 
darthanubis said:
Before posting here, I would have just found a different AME. Did he even say what your vision is currently?
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No, that is the problem I was getting at. I don't know what my vision is at, I don't know if it was near/far that was not up to standard. Hopefully I can just get the 8500-7 filled out tomorrow at a real optometrist, and find a way to send it in to the FAA to get the medical cert corrected (assuming its 20/20) or glasses if I need them.
 
WildBlueYonder said:
No, that is the problem I was getting at. I don't know what my vision is at, I don't know if it was near/far that was not up to standard. Hopefully I can just get the 8500-7 filled out tomorrow at a real optometrist, and find a way to send it in to the FAA to get the medical cert corrected (assuming its 20/20) or glasses if I need them.
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I was getting at not going back to that particular AME for any reason.
 
If you met the class 3 vision standards in the AME's office without corrective lenses then it seems like an error on his part adding that limitation.

You might need corrective lenses to meet the class 2 standards and then it would be appropriate to include that limitation.
 
WildBlueYonder said:
No, that is the problem I was getting at. I don't know what my vision is at, I don't know if it was near/far that was not up to standard. Hopefully I can just get the 8500-7 filled out tomorrow at a real optometrist, and find a way to send it in to the FAA to get the medical cert corrected (assuming its 20/20) or glasses if I need them.
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I suggest going to an ophthalmologist (M.D.) rather than an optometrist. And if you're not going back to the original AME then you'll probably have to just get a fresh exam with another.
 
There is one other part of the Class 2 vision beyond simply the 20/20 at the three required distances: (I may get the name wrong) optical fusion. Essentially do your eyes work together as "fused" vision. They test this (in my experience) with a machine where thay ask which letter the line passes through. The lines are shown to one eye and the letters (dots?) shown to the other. I'm aware of this because I've never had fused, stereoptic vision. No problem for Class 3.

I have no idea if that's your issue (doesn't sound like it with the note about corrective lenses) but it is a Class 2 (and 1) test.
 
I do exactly as you suggest; before every annual AME visit I go to an ophthalmologist for a checkup and acuity test. I have the Dr. write down my corrected vision (20:20 and 20:15) and I take that to the AME (within a month or two).
The AME also has a crappy acuity test device that has half the lights burned out inside it.
 
Let'sgoflying! said:
I do exactly as you suggest; before every annual AME visit I go to an ophthalmologist for a checkup and acuity test. I have the Dr. write down my corrected vision (20:20 and 20:15) and I take that to the AME (within a month or two).
The AME also has a crappy acuity test device that has half the lights burned out inside it.
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This was my experience lol, It was so old school. And someone else mentioned they probably messed up the bit about needing the it for Class 3, so we will see. He is a very old AME but he was funny as hell and a nice guy.
Does anyone know if there are any odd looks from the FAA for going for another exam with another AME within a couple weeks of the first one and getting different rating/class? Don't want to tick off the government...
 
There is one other part of the Class 2 vision beyond simply the 20/20 at the three required distances: (I may get the name wrong) optical fusion. Essentially do your eyes work together as "fused" vision. They test this (in my experience) with a machine where thay ask which letter the line passes through. The lines are shown to one eye and the letters (dots?) shown to the other. I'm aware of this because I've never had fused, stereoptic vision. No problem for Class 3.

I have no idea if that's your issue (doesn't sound like it with the note about corrective lenses) but it is a Class 2 (and 1) test.
 
jsstevens said:
There is one other part of the Class 2 vision beyond simply the 20/20 at the three required distances: (I may get the name wrong) optical fusion. Essentially do your eyes work together as "fused" vision. They test this (in my experience) with a machine where thay ask which letter the line passes through. The lines are shown to one eye and the letters (dots?) shown to the other. I'm aware of this because I've never had fused, stereoptic vision. No problem for Class 3.

I have no idea if that's your issue (doesn't sound like it with the note about corrective lenses) but it is a Class 2 (and 1) test.
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I think this used to be called "Alignment of the Elements"?
I had some trouble with it, always wondered what the practical implications were.
I usually spot traffic way before my copilots. Never had a problem finding a runway.
 
jsstevens said:
There is one other part of the Class 2 vision beyond simply the 20/20 at the three required distances: (I may get the name wrong) optical fusion. Essentially do your eyes work together as "fused" vision. They test this (in my experience) with a machine where thay ask which letter the line passes through. The lines are shown to one eye and the letters (dots?) shown to the other. I'm aware of this because I've never had fused, stereoptic vision. No problem for Class 3.

I have no idea if that's your issue (doesn't sound like it with the note about corrective lenses) but it is a Class 2 (and 1) test.
Click to expand...
I wonder if that is what he was doing by wiggling his fingers above/below/left/right of my face and said "do ya see the wiggles" lol. I believe I did good on that. I also did fine on the color blindness part, the little "where is the line over the note, etc.. I've sent him a message to ask what exactly the issue was and what my eyes were if they weren't 20/20. Hopefullly he will get back to me today.

Thank you for the info about the 90 day window. So i'll have to wait either way to get those corrected. I wonder, if I go to the eye doc and they clear me with 20/20 do I just wear glasses with no script? lol
 
As an FYI - I had trouble with the machine at my AME about 10 years ago and could not pass the class 2 20/20 corrected requirement. I started having my Ophthalmologist fill out the FAA form when I went for my annual visit. The form states I met the 20/20 corrected requirements. The AME was fine with the form.
 
Sounds like the AME might not have kept his visual acuity machine in good shape. Why not continue your training with your third class and then get the first class in 6 mos, a year or 3 years, whenever you need the first class. Needless to say I would find another AME. I would trust the eye professional vs the AME regarding my visual acuity. He was crudely checking your peripheral vision when he was wiggling his fingers, not very accurate. The other test regarding the line going thru the dot is checking for phorias, this needs to be checked for a first class physical.
 
Now I‘m confused. How can an AME give out a class 3 physical when he did not meet the visual requirements at the time of exam. I can see him being told to go get spectacles and then return with specs to see if he meets the requirement. Now if he could not pass the second class because of the visual requirements but could pass the 3rd class, then I could see him being given a 3rd class but without visual restrictions.
 
Eldorado said:
Now I‘m confused. How can an AME give out a class 3 physical when he did not meet the visual requirements at the time of exam. I can see him being told to go get spectacles and then return with specs to see if he meets the requirement. Now if he could not pass the second class because of the visual requirements but could pass the 3rd class, then I could see him being given a 3rd class but without visual restrictions.
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Yep, seems weird. But the OP wrote:
WildBlueYonder said:
Anyway, I was given a class 3 but in there the AME wrote I need to wear corrective lenses.
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WildBlueYonder said:
No, that is the problem I was getting at. I don't know what my vision is at, I don't know if it was near/far that was not up to standard. Hopefully I can just get the 8500-7 filled out tomorrow at a real optometrist, and find a way to send it in to the FAA to get the medical cert corrected (assuming its 20/20) or glasses if I need them.
Click to expand...
How old are you? The hard truth is your near vision worsens as you hit your late 40’s. Most of us with previously perfect vision go through a period of denial where we squint at small print. Eventually we go to an eye doctor and accept the inevitable. I’ve been flying with cheapo drug store 1.5x readers for about 10 years now. It’s just life.
 
Eldorado said:
Now I‘m confused. How can an AME give out a class 3 physical when he did not meet the visual requirements at the time of exam. I can see him being told to go get spectacles and then return with specs to see if he meets the requirement. Now if he could not pass the second class because of the visual requirements but could pass the 3rd class, then I could see him being given a 3rd class but without visual restrictions.
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The AME screwed up is how. He should have issued the third class without a restriction. Since the OP only needs a third class for now, I'd go back to the AME and have him fix his error.
 
Yep first time I needed near vision (cheaters). I didn't know till the exam. But the AME had about 6 pairs of cheaters and he told me to use a pair for the test, then told me what power to buy.
 
Lindberg said:
... I'd go back to the AME and have him fix his error.
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That worked for me when my first medical certificate was issued with a date that caused it to be expired as soon as it was issued. The doctor's administrative assistant was surly about it, however, so I switched AMEs for the next one. (I didn't notice the problem until a phase-check instructor pointed it out when I was getting ready to solo.)
 
Lindberg said:
The AME screwed up is how. He should have issued the third class without a restriction. Since the OP only needs a third class for now, I'd go back to the AME and have him fix his error.
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I'm thinking this is what happened. He was like oh, you didn't qual for a class 2 so here is a class 3 but the right hand side had that information about the glasses on the right hand side... I'm guessing he just made a mistake I'll try to call this week and ask him if that was supposed to be there or not.
 
Mikey52 said:
Yep first time I needed near vision (cheaters). I didn't know till the exam. But the AME had about 6 pairs of cheaters and he told me to use a pair for the test, then told me what power to buy.
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I'd consider, if the AME gave me that restriction, buying some +1 cheaters, putting them on a lanyard, and wearing them around my neck whilst flying. At some point in one's life, they'll be doing that anyway!
 
Eldorado said:
Sounds like the AME might not have kept his visual acuity machine in good shape. Why not continue your training with your third class and then get the first class in 6 mos, a year or 3 years, whenever you need the first class. Needless to say I would find another AME. I would trust the eye professional vs the AME regarding my visual acuity. He was crudely checking your peripheral vision when he was wiggling his fingers, not very accurate. The other test regarding the line going thru the dot is checking for phorias, this needs to be checked for a first class physical.
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This is a good point however I will be moving overseas soon and I must have a class 2 at a minimum. If I don't I have to take something like 650 hours of ground training or something ridiculous to get my license over there. If I have at least a class 2 and 100+ hours I don't have to do that.
 
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