The Cirrus factor

benyflyguy

benyflyguy

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benyflyguy
Could someone please explain why there is so much angst between Cirrus owners and the rest of the world??
It seems that a lot of our threads can turn Ugly when they come up. Ppl for decades have spirited conversations about different options in aviation: low wing vs high wing, tail dragger vs trigear, t-tail vs straight vs V. Stuff like that. But the Cirrus conversation turns a lot more bitter IMO.
I was away from aviation when they came to market and became popular. So I wasn’t around for their birth and gain in popularity.
Personally I don’t care. There are pluses and minuses to all airframes. I don’t fly one. But I like to see them fly.
What little part of this Holy war did I miss??
 
Seems to be a proliferation of thin skin amongst most Cirrus pilots. Take everything waaaaaaaaay too serious and personal. Even If its in jest. I have an idea why, but won't go into it.

I would fly one if they would go in and out of a 2600' grass strip with 75' obstacles, but that's not their mission.

Well, they could go in once.
 
Don't know. I want a Cirrus. I have thick skin, y'all can question my manhood all you want. I sailed a Hunter, I've already been through it.

*Hunter marine gets trash talked about them like Cirrus does in aviation. For those that know diddly about sailing.
 
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What’s not to love. I think Cirrus is awesome. Monterey to Baton Rouge in 5.5 hours with one fuel stop.
 
On one hand, slavish devotion to Uber safety, to the point of being a semi-passenger, sucking the joy out of flying; combined with a last-chance way to escape when the pilot's skills and decision making are inadequate. It's not a yank-and-bank airplane built for the delight of aviators who want to fly, as opposed to "ride". Honestly, it's a low wing G-1000 182, but throw in the chute, and you open GA up to a different sub-group, one who likes the idea of flying, to a degree, but with, shall we say, a less adventurous, more timorous, spirit. Some pilots find all that worthy of some contempt.

On the udder hand, plenty of old-school GA types are as comfortable wrapped in the cocoon of near max-safety, but they can "hide out" in heavily automated machines that don't have a chute, so they can walk among us masquerading as true brothers.

I think it's a fine traveling machine, with a great sales gimmick - likely of quite small real advantage, but it makes wife's feel more secure, and eases the path to purchase. I'd certainly take one if you gave it to me, of course. Not sure how long I'd keep it, but the comfort, speed, and convenience are alluring.

On another hand, Cirrus owners come across as smug, and fond of quoting some dubious "save" numbers, as if a justification is required for the price of the airplane and the presence of the chute - they paid a lot for it, and mostly don;t want to hear much negative feedback.
 
Sundancer said:
On one hand, slavish devotion to Uber safety, to the point of being a semi-passenger, sucking the joy out of flying; combined with a last-chance way to escape when the pilot's skills and decision making are inadequate. It's not a yank-and-bank airplane built for the delight of aviators who want to fly, as opposed to "ride". Honestly, it's a low wing G-1000 182, but throw in the chute, and you open GA up to a different sub-group, one who likes the idea of flying, to a degree, but with, shall we say, a less adventurous, more timorous, spirit. Some pilots find all that worthy of some contempt.

On the udder hand, plenty of old-school GA types are as comfortable wrapped in the cocoon of near max-safety, but they can "hide out" in heavily automated machines that don't have a chute, so they can walk among us masquerading as true brothers.

I think it's a fine traveling machine, with a great sales gimmick - likely of quite small real advantage, but it makes wife's feel more secure, and eases the path to purchase. I'd certainly take one if you gave it to me, of course. Not sure how long I'd keep it, but the comfort, speed, and convenience are alluring.

On another hand, Cirrus owners come across as smug, and fond of quoting some dubious "save" numbers, as if a justification is required for the price of the airplane and the presence of the chute - they paid a lot for it, and mostly don;t want to hear much negative feedback.
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You should try flying one too.
 
benyflyguy said:
...What little part of this Holy war did I miss??
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Just a theory: I don't think it has anything to do with the planes.

Most of the owners on this forum scrape together Benjamins to put a comparatively ancient aluminum or tube/fabric relic in their rented hangar. And then scrape together more Benjamins for its care and feeding and upgrading and...

A new Cirrus, like a new Model S Tesla, is a luxury bauble for people of means. Although most of us can't afford one, I don't actually think the pilots here are envious of or resent members that are financially successful enough to own and fly expensive, high performance airplanes. Personally I think it's pretty cool that @mulligan has taken us along over the years on his journey from SR-22 to Cirrus jet, and @James_Dean has allowed us to live vicariously through his progression to a twin turboprop Conquest.

Imo, the problem, if there is one, is Cirrus itself and it's marketing. Every year it sells a few hundred of among the most expensive personal airplanes on the planet. It has to market them as something unique and exclusive, just like every other top-end luxury goods maker. Right down to the photon and audio wave histrionics when it delivers each one to a customer.

Around this joint it's a rather egalitarian society - everyone's entitled to to ask a question or express a view on any aviation topic, and the rest are equally entitled to support or criticize it. The common denominator is we are pilots, which implies "we are all the same" (including, of course, we are all better than average pilots ;) ). Being tarred by association with the company's elite "lifestyle" vanity marketing might be the reason the Cirrus fans around here are sometimes met with such vexatious disapprobation.
 
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I think there’s probably less angst against a guy that works there way up to them, learning invaluable piloting skills along the way and has the means for them... I think the angst comes in against the stereotype of the guy that goes gets all his ratings in a crash course, no pun intended, in several weeks and jumps in a newly acquired Cirrus... that guy is the guy that drives everyone nuts... that “type” tends to view themselves as accomplished pilots from day one, and yup they need the chute as they never learned along the way the lessons slow underpowered planes teach... folks like JFK Jr... Not a Cirrus but fits the stereotype we dislike... I’m not an accomplished pilot but My old bird reminds me of that if I decide to think I am when I’m not...

To those that fly em, congrats... If you can sip bad coffee out of styrofoam n chat with the guy that flies a beat ragwing as your equal, if not superior aviator depending on circumstance... no angst from me... if you have never flown anything that didn’t cover for so many skills you haven’t earned and think you are better than everyone cuz you are in the Cirrus club, you aren’t my type of fellow pilot...

Ps... I’ve met both types of cirrus pilots personally...
 
There has always been the presence of a subset of counter-culture persona in the internet circles I have participated in, more so in the aviation groups I think.
It shrieks of 'I want to stand out (or appear superior) so I will present anything negative I can scrape together', as the most important facet of an issue (or in this case, product).
A sort of 'Contrarion Elitism' might describe it.
Then there will be those who didn't think of it first but also want to appear cool so they glom on to these ideas later and soon it takes on a life of it's own.
Just stop it.
 
benyflyguy said:
Could someone please explain why there is so much angst between Cirrus owners and the rest of the world??
Click to expand...
I would say 99 percent of pilots and people I talk to don't have any animosity, they think it's a cool plane and if they don't fly one they have objective reasons for it, typically coming down to cost

What I find is that people are able to discuss differences in Mooney, Bonanza, etc objectively, but when it comes to Cirrus there tends to be a personal attack or indictment on the owners.. I find that usually non Cirrus people throw the first personal punch that the pilots aren't as good, etc. This literally just happened in another thread..

EdFred said:
Seems to be a proliferation of thin skin amongst most Cirrus pilots
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Case in point, first personal thing coming from non Cirrus
 
I flew one. I hated it. Felt like driving an suv.

but i can understand those that like the idea of a roomy, comfortable suv with a parachute.

for me, it just seemed so disconnected from my flying experiences in 40 year old tin cans with no room, sloppy controls and brain rattling noise.

maybe theres something wrong with me?
 
EC4567D0-1D63-4978-B0F4-253BF27121BF.jpeg I don't have a Cirrus and I don't want a Cirrus.
My personal opinion is I don't like them at all and some of the pilots I see fly them are total idiots!
For a go somewhere plane I would pick my classic IO-550 powered M35 Bonanza any day! Its classy and has ramp appeal :)
 
My last experience with a cirrus pilot was to pull up behind his plane parked in front of the fuel pump with the doors swung wide open, and nobody around. After waiting for 5 minutes, I walked to the FBO where he finally popped out with a 5 year old kid, totally ignored my question because the kid was already running around the ramp like an idiot.

He takes more than 5 minutes to strap the kid in the plane (rather than pulling the plane out of my way, he got ready and fired it up in front of the pump), and as he’s walking around to his side the kid is slamming the controls from stop to stop the entire time. He gets in and spends another 5 to 10 minutes getting ready and firing up the engine.

At least he then moved out of my way before stopping on the ramp again to do whatever prep he needed, but I had to wait nearly a half hour all said for him to move his plane and he’d already filled it before I ever got there.

I pull my plane up, fuel up, sump my tanks, start up and put on my headset and he’s just making it to the end of the runway. By the time I get to the runway (at midfield) he’s finally on his takeoff roll and he calls an aborted takeoff. As he goes by me, I see that the kids door is popped open.....

Obviously this is only one experience, and I’ve seen worse in planes other than a cirrus, but it fit the stereotype pretty well.
 
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Oh, and my first experience with a cirrus pilot was when he used my driveway to turn around and taxi the other way and drove off into my ditch ripping the boot on one of his mains to shreds. It took 3 of us with my truck and shovels and boards to get him out.
 
I don’t have anything against cirrus or their pilots, but there are reasons behind the criticisms.

Ps> I’m sometimes embarrassed by mooney pilots saying how perfect Mooney’s are too. I love my mooney, but it’s still a compromise. No one plane has it all.
 
Most Cirrus pilots I know are decent weekend warriors. Most. The problem is, the ones that stick out are those which are down right egregious in their behavior. Things like taking up 2 of 3 free spots in an airport or dangerously cutting in the pattern. On the other hand, I've seen the same from Mooney pilots too.
 
Tantalum said:
I would say 99 percent of pilots and people I talk to don't have any animosity, they think it's a cool plane and if they don't fly one they have objective reasons for it, typically coming down to cost

What I find is that people are able to discuss differences in Mooney, Bonanza, etc objectively, but when it comes to Cirrus there tends to be a personal attack or indictment on the owners.. I find that usually non Cirrus people throw the first personal punch that the pilots aren't as good, etc. This literally just happened in another thread..


Case in point, first personal thing coming from non Cirrus
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Never said anything about skill, but you literally demonstrated exactly what I was saying. You guys take everything and anything personally, completely ignoring the part where I said I would be in one if it fit my mission. And it wasn't "first" because I have maintained this looooooong before you were ever on the board. I have given grief to Cessna guys, Mooney guys, and Grumman guys as well. The Cirrus guys are the ones that butt hurt over it and take as as some sort of indictment against them being human. As demonstrated.
 
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I fly a V35b and did rent a Cirrus for a while before buying the Bo. I liked the Cirrus. It was new and something different. They obviously filled a niche in the market and good for them. As far as piloting goes, plenty of d*cks flying all brands. For me, the ability to get in and out of smaller grass fields on occasion while cruising at 160kts hit the sweet spot for me. The surrounding hangars in my row are mostly filled with Cirri. I would have no problem owning one but for the cost. My gripe is mostly with the other manufacturers who just sat on their hands while Cirrus cleaned their clocks. That includes Beech/Textron.
 
As a flyer of Cirrus and non Cirrus (And importantly not being the one in the socioeconomic class of having my name on the title) I think it is an internet problem.
In real life I haven't ever gotten mad at a pilot because of what he flies.

I chime in when the riff raff.. Er I mean non-cirrus pilot states wrong facts about the plane.
I was walking out to the Cirrus last summer and a ramp guy says "Nice plane. Don't stall it" I had to ask why. He proceeded to tell me he heard they can't recover from a stall.
 
SixPapaCharlie said:
As a flyer of Cirrus and non Cirrus (And importantly not being the one in the socioeconomic class of having my name on the title) I think it is an internet problem.
In real life I haven't ever gotten mad at a pilot because of what he flies.

I chime in when the riff raff.. Er I mean non-cirrus pilot states wrong facts about the plane.
I was walking out to the Cirrus last summer and a ramp guy says "Nice plane. Don't stall it" I had to ask why. He proceeded to tell me he heard they can't recover from a stall.
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Everyone knows when the engine stalls no plane can recover. Duhyyyyyyyyyy!
 
EdFred said:
The Cirrus guys are the ones that butt hurt over it and take as as some sort of indictment against them being human.
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haha, it takes a little more than that to get this millennial to retreat to a coloring book safe space but it does seem like there's a prevalence of personal indictments against Cirrus pilots in general

Funny you mention Mooney though, as we've seen demonstrated on our own threads those guys tend to get a little butt hurt too..
 
Total troll thread.

“There seems to be a lot beef between cirrus guys and everyone else. So let’s start a thread specifically on that”

Nice
 
Tantalum said:
haha, it takes a little more than that to get this millennial to retreat to a coloring book safe space but it does seem like there's a prevalence of personal indictments against Cirrus pilots in general

Funny you mention Mooney though, as we've seen demonstrated on our own threads those guys tend to get a little butt hurt too..
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They were the Cirrus guys before there were Cirrus guys. :D
 
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pigpenracing said:
View attachment 75168 I don't have a Cirrus and I don't want a Cirrus.
My personal opinion is I don't like them at all and some of the pilots I see fly them are total idiots!
For a go somewhere plane I would pick my classic IO-550 powered M35 Bonanza any day! Its classy and has ramp appeal :)
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bingo....but, I'm forever grateful for the Cirrus....they've replaced the forked tail doctor killers. :D
 
Cirrus privilege??? I was getting checked out in a 22 at our home airport, which has a tower. It was the final landing for me, we were behind a warrior with a student and instructor, no one else in the pattern. I turned base too soon, got on final and was gaining on him. I was about to ask for s turns when the controller said we were getting too close and told the Warrior to go around, lol. The Warrior instructor was not happy and said "That Cirrus needs to slow down!". I was a little shocked I didn't get the go around instruction, but landed. My instructor hunted the other guy down and apologized. I guess there is Cirrus privilege.
 
I don't personally know any Cirrus pilots. I think that they are cool airplanes. I can't afford one so I fly a Cherokee. :dunno:

There is only one Cirrus pilot I "know" on YouTube who comes across as a pompous arse but he's Swiss so I don't know how much is actually PAnous or just the way he talks.
 
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SixPapaCharlie said:
As a flyer of Cirrus and non Cirrus (And importantly not being the one in the socioeconomic class of having my name on the title) I think it is an internet problem.
In real life I haven't ever gotten mad at a pilot because of what he flies.

I chime in when the riff raff.. Er I mean non-cirrus pilot states wrong facts about the plane.
I was walking out to the Cirrus last summer and a ramp guy says "Nice plane. Don't stall it" I had to ask why. He proceeded to tell me he heard they can't recover from a stall.
Click to expand...
I've had people say the same about the mooney.
 
benyflyguy said:
...
It seems that a lot of our threads can turn Ugly when they come up. Ppl for decades have spirited conversations about different options in aviation: low wing vs high wing, tail dragger vs trigear, t-tail vs straight vs V. Stuff like that. But the Cirrus conversation turns a lot more bitter IMO.
....
What little part of this Holy war did I miss??
Click to expand...
Here’s my quasi informed opinion.

Low vs high wing is mostly personal preference and there are advantages to both. Most of the banter between the opposing camps is good natured tongue in cheek ribbing.

Straight vs t or v tail is also mostly personal preference though they do fly a bit different. Mostly though it is an aesthetic argument.

Tail wheel vs nose gear is mostly personal preference although there is also a valid mission capability argument to be made. There is also the fact that many feel tail wheels make you a better pilot but few really think you are a lesser pilot for flying nose wheels.

The Cirrus vs all others deal is a bit different at times. Though I have never flown one, I’d like to. I think they are wonderful planes with great onboard technology though most of that is available in other aircraft as well. The major issue is the chute. But not the presence of the chute itself per se. It’s that some Cirrus owners sincerely and often vehemently opine that another plane is less of a plane if it doesn’t have a chute and consider those other planes as less safe at minimum if not downright dangerous. Also Cirrus’s marketing of its “saves” is rather disingenuous in my opinion. On the other hand, there are those non Cirrus pilots who think pulling the red handle is surrendering to the emergency rather than dealing with it like a real pilot and putting it down on a city street or in postage stamp sized field. If you have skills, you don’t need a chute. Learn to fly, damnit.

So basically non Cirrus pilots are flying death traps and Cirrus pilots can’t deal with simple emergency landings. Those viewpoints seem to be taken more personally than the other viewpoints or personal preference type arguments.

And when some of us poke fun of the Cirrus or Cirrus pilots just for giggles, it adds fuel to the fire although no ill intent was actually meant.
 
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EdFred said:
They were the Cirrus guys before there were Cirrus guys. :D
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They may have even been Ferari [sic] guys. Here's a video about their lifestyle.

And just like there are Ferrari guys who know how to drive and love driving but also Ferari guys who have (access to) money and want you to know it, there are airplane guys in both camps, too. That even applies to Cirrus pilots. Some of them just googled "most expensive personal airplane" and bought the first one that came up. Some actually like that it's fast, comfortable, and full of features that make the dangers and inconveniences of flying less of an argument with their (third) wife.

Now, can we talk about the Icon A5?
 
EdFred said:
They were the Cirrus guys before there were Cirrus guys.
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the tail is on backwards anyway.. I never could take them seriously, and hockey pucks for landing gear??!! /S

Timbeck2 said:
Cirrus pilot I "know" on YouTube
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Is it Niko's wings? That guy single handedly makes me not want to fly the Cirrus and makes us all look like idiots. He's the CNN / Tabloid equivalent of aviation. Can this guy get one flight done without some near death catastrophe happening? I get the whole clickbait thing.. but this guy's videos gives me hives

-EVERYTHING WANTS TO KILL YOU
-SMALL UNPRESSURIZED PLANE
-NOPE NOT LANDING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
-FLAPS ICING
-EXTREME!!!!!!!!!

...ugh give me a break!

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