The Cirrus factor

PaulS said:
Rental Cirrus are much more plentiful than you might think if you are in the right area.
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I meant to get back to this- if there is one near the Sacramento foothills where I am, I don’t know about it. There are quite a few late model Cirrus rentals in the Bay- for about $440/hour + an extensive garmin ground school and checkout. I don’t blame them considering it’s just hefty for me
 
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All planes are awesome. I owned a Cirrus for several years and enjoyed it. Even as a Cirrus owner the thing that always annoyed me is the attitude of some Cirrus pilots that like to impugn aircraft without caps is being less safe. I always owned other aircraft without caps while I owned my Cirrus, and would fly both of them on the same day, and never felt less safe in them. I have no problem saying the parachute adds safety to the Cirrus, and gives a Cirrus pilot another option, but it’s disingenuous to say that the plane is more safe than others. In fact none of the safest planes flying have a parachute. The safety record of the Cirrus is on par with the rest of GA high-performance aircraft. Some have a better safety record, some have worse. In fact the lifetime fatal record of Cirri is in excess of several similar types. But what the Cirrus has in common with all other aircraft, is that usually when it ends up in a smoking hole it’s the fault of the pilot. But the Cirrus has a tool, like any tools that are in the airplane, you should learn how to use it, and use it when it’s appropriate. It is just disingenuous to believe it makes the plane safer then competing models. I believe the Cessna TTX still has a better safety record as a direct comparison, certainly all the Diamonds do, as well as a the Cessna 172 and 182 going on lifetime safety records. All certified planes are safe if flown properly by a well trained pilot. All certified planes are dangerous if not
 
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Rockymountain said:
All planes are awesome. I owned a Cirrus for several years and enjoyed it. Even as a Cirrus owner the thing that always annoyed me is the attitude of some Cirrus pilots that like to impugn aircraft without caps is being less safe. I always owned other aircraft without caps while I owned my Cirrus, and would fly both of them on the same day, and never felt less safe in them. I have no problem saying the parachute adds safety to the Corrus, and gives a serious pilot another option, but it’s disingenuous to say that the plane is more safe than others. In fact none of the safest planes flying have a parachute. The safety record of the Cirrus is on par with the rest of GA high-performance aircraft. Some have a better safety record, some have worse. In fact the lifetime record of a Cirrus is an excess of several similar types. But what the Cirrus has in common with all other aircraft, is that usually when it ends up in a smoking hole it’s the fault of the pilot. But the Cirrus has a tool, like any tools that are in the airplane, you should learn how to use it, and use it when it’s appropriate. It is just disingenuous to believe it makes the plane safer then competing models. I believe the Cessna TTX still has a better safety record as a direct comparison, certainly all the Diamonds do, as well as a the Cessna 172 and 182 going on lifetime safety records. All certified planes are safe if flown properly by a well trained pilot. All certified planes are dangerous if not
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I agree with most of what you write. But I think you'll find many more pilots inferring that Cirrus pilots are inept and the chute makes flying a Cirrus more dangerous because of a "the chute will save me" attitude, than Cirrus pilots ragging on other airplanes. I'm thinking you weren't inept and didn't have the chute will save me attitude, most Cirrus pilots are like that in my experience.

I fly Cirrus exclusively, for now. I like the extra tool in my chest of the chute of something unthinkable happens. I like the option of FIKI should I have to go through a layer of light icing on an approach that would make the approach illegal in other SE airplanes. I will also fly in non chute planes.

It actually takes quite a bit of work to get proficient with all the systems in a Cirrus, my sense is some take the time to learn it all, other don't.


Most of the angst about Cirrus seems to come from people who have never been in one. Statistics are great things, if you realize their limitations. All airplanes are dangerous if the pilot isn't up to the task.
 
A 22 is on my short list, for next aircraft, and I've never seen one in person. If I do, it should fit the theme of my entire life, always being the outcast guy. It doesn't bother me, made a lot of unpopular choices, that ****ed off many groups of people. That really is more their problem, than mine. Their hatred eats them up from the inside out, bit by bit, while I continue on with life, unaffected by their hatred. Much the same as most Cirrus owner I assume. They continue on, enjoy their plane, and don't sweat about the haters.
 
You should join COPA. You’ll find it a very large support group there. First, you should define your mission and your budget, then keep an open mind. The Cirrus is a great cross country aircraft. But your mission should help you decide what is right.
 
YKA said:
A 22 is on my short list, for next aircraft, and I've never seen one in person. If I do, it should fit the theme of my entire life, always being the outcast guy. It doesn't bother me, made a lot of unpopular choices, that ****ed off many groups of people. That really is more their problem, than mine. Their hatred eats them up from the inside out, bit by bit, while I continue on with life, unaffected by their hatred. Much the same as most Cirrus owner I assume. They continue on, enjoy their plane, and don't sweat about the haters.
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Don't confuse the opinions on this site with the actual GA community. Cirrus sells over 300 SR22s per year. For comparison, there were 7 Bonanzas sold in 2019 and it looks like they might just break 10 in 2020. If you remove flight school purchases/fleet aircraft from the picture, Cirrus absolutely dominates the piston single market. Owning or wanting to own a Cirrus places you squarely within the mainstream.
 
Cervieres said:
Don't confuse the opinions on this site with the actual GA community. Cirrus sells over 300 SR22s per year. For comparison, there were 7 Bonanzas sold in 2019 and it looks like they might just break 10 in 2020. If you remove flight school purchases/fleet aircraft from the picture, Cirrus absolutely dominates the piston single market. Owning or wanting to own a Cirrus places you squarely within the mainstream.
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For new aircraft. But for the percentage of all aircraft flying and for sale cirrus is still a small percent.

Still IMHO cirrus looks like a great airplane. Just not something I will ever afford
 
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Cirrus prohibits their CSIPs for expressing negative opinions on the aircraft. Their CSIP designation can be revoked for violating this rule. The Cirrus training program has a brand loyalty component that serves to convince the Cirrus owner they are flying the best aircraft.

The fact is the Cirrus airplanes are very nice aircraft. Like any aircraft they have their strengths and weaknesses.
 
Clip4 said:
Cirrus prohibits their CSIPs for expressing negative opinions on the aircraft. Their CSIP designation can be revoked for violating this rule. The Cirrus training program has a brand loyalty component that serves to convince the Cirrus owner they are flying the best aircraft.

The fact is the Cirrus airplanes are very nice aircraft. Like any aircraft they have their strengths and weaknesses.
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I fly with CSIPs, and not one has ever tried to convince me it's the best aircraft. But honestly, the weaknesses are very few. They do work very hard to convince you to properly use the systems that are there, especially the chute.
 
Clip4 said:
Cirrus prohibits their CSIPs for expressing negative opinions on the aircraft.
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Makes sense though, right? They carry a very personal face to the brand, GM or Ford wouldn't want their own salesmen poopoo'ing their own cars either

PaulS said:
CSIPs
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Same here, they've been great people.. mine still actively teaches instrument in his Piper Archer and previous to that flew a Lance

Mind you, there's no actual (legal) requirement to do any CSIP work. Personally I think you'd be foolish not to as the aircraft is somewhat different from the standard 172 or PA28 many folks may be stepping up from but it's otherwise just a basic ASEL, it's not even complex
 
Tantalum said:
Makes sense though, right? They carry a very personal face to the brand, GM or Ford wouldn't want their own salesmen poopoo'ing their own cars either


Same here, they've been great people.. mine still actively teaches instrument in his Piper Archer and previous to that flew a Lance

Mind you, there's no actual (legal) requirement to do any CSIP work. Personally I think you'd be foolish not to as the aircraft is somewhat different from the standard 172 or PA28 many folks may be stepping up from but it's otherwise just a basic ASEL, it's not even complex
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Yup, it's a pretty simple machine to fly if you fly it the way they recommend. What I've found with non CSIP instructors is they tend to apply techniques from other aircraft to the Cirrus such as carrying extra speed or going half flaps in crosswinds, not needed and not usually a good idea.
 
PaulS said:
Yup, it's a pretty simple machine to fly if you fly it the way they recommend. What I've found with non CSIP instructors is they tend to apply techniques from other aircraft to the Cirrus such as carrying extra speed or going half flaps in crosswinds, not needed and not usually a good idea.
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Generally the same applies to those other aircraft.
 
MauleSkinner said:
Generally the same applies to those other aircraft.
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So I understand, which is the puzzling part, I hear pilots talking like this a lot, half flaps and or extra speed. I've only flown a couple different types of planes so my experience is limited in that regard.
 
PaulS said:
So I understand, which is the puzzling part, I hear pilots talking like this a lot, half flaps and or extra speed. I've only flown a couple different types of planes so my experience is limited in that regard.
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There are “a couple” of airplanes where stuff like that is helpful, but more often it started off as a teaching technique that morphed into procedure.
 
Don’t get all the shade. I know several Cirrus pilots and a ton of non-Cirrus pilots. Found very few morons and definitely the minority of all pilots I know. No attitude issues with the few Cirri guys. Seems some are mad that the company has shown up Beech (what I fly) and Textron. I don’t have a chute, hope I never need one, not mad at anyone that does. Sheesh, I like Niko too. Maybe I’m a moron?! LOL!
 
TheFB said:
Don’t get all the shade. I know several Cirrus pilots and a ton of non-Cirrus pilots. Found very few morons and definitely the minority of all pilots I know. No attitude issues with the few Cirri guys. Seems some are mad that the company has shown up Beech (what I fly) and Textron. I don’t have a chute, hope I never need one, not mad at anyone that does. Sheesh, I like Niko too. Maybe I’m a moron?! LOL!
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Niko went political, big nope for me now, just sayin'.
 
PaulS said:
So I understand, which is the puzzling part, I hear pilots talking like this a lot, half flaps and or extra speed. I've only flown a couple different types of planes so my experience is limited in that regard.
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I approach faster than 1.3 vso. My logic is if the engine cuts on short final I’ll have no issue making the field. I still touch down close to stall and am off at midfield.

I land full flap all the time for the most part in my RV. With my old STOL plane it was half flaps with crosswinds. To do otherwise was essentially flying a kite... you’d land, gust would pick you up, you’d land again. With crosswinds this wasn’t fun, it would easily get you off centerline.
 
OkieAviator said:
I approach faster than 1.3 vso. My logic is if the engine cuts on short final I’ll have no issue making the field. I still touch down close to stall and am off at midfield.

I land full flap all the time for the most part in my RV. With my old STOL plane it was half flaps with crosswinds. To do otherwise was essentially flying a kite... you’d land, gust would pick you up, you’d land again. With crosswinds this wasn’t fun, it would easily get you off centerline.
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Yup, that's fine, I fly the approach faster too, extra speed really doesn't affect you until you're ready to touch down. By 50 feet or so I'm close the recommended approach speed. I try to be on my number over the threshold.

As far as the crosswind, I guess I should have been clear, I'm flying Cirrus, the only compensation you make on the approach speed is for the gust factor which is for gusts over 10 knots more than the wind speed. Flying faster for crosswinds just leaves you zipping over the runway for longer than you need, they are actually a great crosswind airplane. Rvs are cool planes.

Cirrus recommends no configuration changes below 500 feet when IFR. Approaches are flown at half flaps 100knots. If you get below 500 ft agl, they want you to land half flaps. I guess enough people were getting themselves in trouble adding final flaps down low. Cirrus pilots.... lol.
 
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