The ADS-B Jungle - Tough on small GA

Jaker7

Jaker7

Filing Flight Plan
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Aug 27, 2012
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5
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Tennessee
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Jaker7
2005 Cessna T182T with 1650 hours and G1000/non WAAS. Just retired and now have time to shop around for an ADS-B. Locked in on the GTX Garmin 345. Got two quotes today for purchase of the GTX 345 and installation. One was $6,900 and the other was $13,475. After discussion, the more expensive proposal was reduced as they realized my plane was non- WAAS, saves $2,450 with no needed software update for G1000, saved $780 by not getting the optional pilot’s guide for the 345, kept $400 for a cockpit reference guide, and still have $1,120 for Flightstream 110. What are others paying for this with comparable airplanes? Do I need the Flightstream 110 or does the 345 already have that capability?
 
Flightstream allow you to upload and download flight plans directly to/from your panel/tablet. Makes flight planning very easy. I have the Flightstream 210, love it. I have total connectivity between by GNS 430 and ForeFlight.
 
Agree with others above... Also forget the FS110, waste of money. The GTX-345 has an AHRS with a bluetooth interface to represent synthetic vision on an iPad with Foreflight or Garmin Pilot. With a G1000, the iPad may not be very useful in flight for aux EFIS.

The FS210 is very useful and makes the G1000 much easier to operate. Make flight plans or plan changes in an iPad app and upload to the G1000 with one button acceptance on the panel. Fantastic. Once used, one of those items a pilot's not sure how he got along without.
 
Larry Korona said:
Flightstream allow you to upload and download flight plans directly to/from your panel/tablet. Makes flight planning very easy. I have the Flightstream 210, love it. I have total connectivity between by GNS 430 and ForeFlight.
Click to expand...

OP mentioned FlightStream 110. That unit does not support two-way flight plan transfer. 210 does, as you describe. The 510 does too.
 
GLMS_NC said:
OP mentioned FlightStream 110. That unit does not support two-way flight plan transfer. 210 does, as you describe. The 510 does too.
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Yes.

If the first gen G1000 supports the FS510, that's the best choice. The extra cost is mitigated by the no-charge installation costs. Plus it relies on wifi instead of BT, which I think is better and more reliable.
 
NordicDave said:
Yes.

If the first gen G1000 supports the FS510, that's the best choice. The extra cost is mitigated by the no-charge installation costs. Plus it relies on wifi instead of BT, which I think is better and more reliable.
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Personally, Bluetooth has advantages on the mobile device side since it uses far less power.
 
I don't know much about the G1000. We just bought a Lynx L3 all in one box to pair with an Avidyne IFD440. As a data point, the cost of the lynx without install was $4700 if that helps. You already have glass - so the LCD display isn't likely a factor for you. We picked the Lynx for our steam gage plane because of the extra display to handle traffic and it works well with the Avidyne.
 
The 7k price seems about right. I was quoted a little over 8k but needed a WAAS antenna. Ended up doing it my self being experimental but it was no walk in the park.
 
There's a guy on the Beech board advertising new in box Navworx systems for $750. With FAA rebate, you're into it for $250. Add a waas position sensor for $1,700 and you're all in less than $2k. If it goes TU, buy another, or upgrade to a Trig 1090 xponder.
 
5700 installed for GGTX 345 (non GPS) here in upper Midwest. already have WAAS position source. trying to decide between R or panel mounted (panel mounted would be major pain since my panel is already full)
 
Chip Sylverne said:
There's a guy on the Beech board advertising new in box Navworx systems for $750. With FAA rebate, you're into it for $250. Add a waas position sensor for $1,700 and you're all in less than $2k. If it goes TU, buy another, or upgrade to a Trig 1090 xponder.
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Isn't Navworx the outfit that had its products disallowed by the FAA?
 
kyleb said:
Isn't Navworx the outfit that had its products disallowed by the FAA?
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Yes, but several have gotten waivers to use the unit with a TSO'd navigator (e.g. 430W) as the GPS source. That said, I would not spend money on one of their boxes due to a lack of support.
 
kyleb said:
Isn't Navworx the outfit that had its products disallowed by the FAA?
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There's AMOC's to use it with position sources with all the Garmin 4xx, 5xx, 6xx,7xx boxes, and the Nexnav Mini. Not sure about Avidyne's. Yeah, no support. But what's to support? Mine's been working great for a couple years. The $11k saved buys a lot of avgas. Just sayin'.
 
Chip Sylverne said:
There's AMOC's to use it with position sources with all the Garmin 4xx, 5xx, 6xx,7xx boxes, and the Nexnav Mini. Not sure about Avidyne's. Yeah, no support. But what's to support? Mine's been working great for a couple years. The $11k saved buys a lot of avgas. Just sayin'.
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I don't think it's allowed on the rebate, tho.
 
Lynx NGT-9000 installed for $7000. Includes wifi module for data export to portable devices and audio traffic alert system. Uses independent WAAS source for redundancy.
 
chemgeek said:
Lynx NGT-9000 installed for $7000. Includes wifi module for data export to portable devices and audio traffic alert system. Uses independent WAAS source for redundancy.
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that's a great price for the box
 
NordicDave said:
Agree with others above... Also forget the FS110, waste of money. The GTX-345 has an AHRS with a bluetooth interface to represent synthetic vision on an iPad with Foreflight or Garmin Pilot. With a G1000, the iPad may not be very useful in flight for aux EFIS.

The FS210 is very useful and makes the G1000 much easier to operate. Make flight plans or plan changes in an iPad app and upload to the G1000 with one button acceptance on the panel. Fantastic. Once used, one of those items a pilot's not sure how he got along without.
Click to expand...
What kind of plane are you flying with the G1000 and the FS210? I was told by Garmin that the FS210 is not compatible with a G1000 in a Skylane (my plane).
 
WannFly said:
that's a great price for the box
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The area dealer, who also happens to have been one of my regular mechanics over the years has put in so many of these he can do them asleep. I was going to go the GTX345 route but this was slightly more affordable. And it's a really nice unit that will talk to your ipad or android tablet efb.
 
chemgeek said:
Lynx NGT-9000 installed for $7000. Includes wifi module for data export to portable devices and audio traffic alert system. Uses independent WAAS source for redundancy.
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I will be be interested to hear how how you like it. It is going to be about a month before the avionics shop gets ours installed.
 
Jim_CAK said:
I will be be interested to hear how how you like it. It is going to be about a month before the avionics shop gets ours installed.
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So far, so good. The screen is almost the same acreage as my GNS-430, but much higher resolution. I keep the traffic page on the left side, and the weather page on the right side. It exports everything (ADS-B traffic, FIS-B) via wifi to my yoke-mounted Android tablet EFB. I haven't heard an ATAS announcement through the audio panel yet, but I'm told by others that it will get your attention. You will want it high up in the stack. I put it just under the audio panel and just above the GNS-430W. I pick up ADS-B and FIS-B at about 1500 AGL after takeoff. The "knobology" (or "tapology" in this case) is very simple to learn, unlike say, a GNS-430.

The traffic page will "filter" the non-threatening traffic. You will see EVERYTHING on your tablet, appropriately color coded for threat level. You can also monitor traffic on your GNS-430W, but I don't see the point with the NGT-9000 screen and export to your portable EFB device. I wonder if I should just disable it, as the GNS-430W complains when ADS-B is not available for display.
 

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Thanks for posting the pic of a real panel with the L3. Looks good.
 
chemgeek said:
So far, so good. The screen is almost the same acreage as my GNS-430, but much higher resolution. I keep the traffic page on the left side, and the weather page on the right side. It exports everything (ADS-B traffic, FIS-B) via wifi to my yoke-mounted Android tablet EFB. I haven't heard an ATAS announcement through the audio panel yet, but I'm told by others that it will get your attention. You will want it high up in the stack. I put it just under the audio panel and just above the GNS-430W. I pick up ADS-B and FIS-B at about 1500 AGL after takeoff. The "knobology" (or "tapology" in this case) is very simple to learn, unlike say, a GNS-430.

The traffic page will "filter" the non-threatening traffic. You will see EVERYTHING on your tablet, appropriately color coded for threat level. You can also monitor traffic on your GNS-430W, but I don't see the point with the NGT-9000 screen and export to your portable EFB device. I wonder if I should just disable it, as the GNS-430W complains when ADS-B is not available for display.
Click to expand...
That looks good. We are going to put ours right under the GPS. Our transponder is currently in the bottom of the stack. The display is the reason I went for the Lynx. Our transponder has always been just a box that you punch in the a 4 digit code and never look at it again. The screen turns the transponder into a limited MFD for traffic and weather. It is nice to get some extra utility out of the transponder.
 
Stratus ES I charge $2,800 installed and Stratus ESG I charge $3,200 installed. I just installed a GTX345 for $5,000 without GPS.
 
Jesse Saint said:
Stratus ES I charge $2,800 installed and Stratus ESG I charge $3,200 installed. I just installed a GTX345 for $5,000 without GPS.
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Where are you located Jesse? I know several people who are looking at the different options.
 
Jesse Saint said:
Stratus ES I charge $2,800 installed and Stratus ESG I charge $3,200 installed. I just installed a GTX345 for $5,000 without GPS.
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Is that certified or experimental aircraft only?
 
I put in a 345 in May and the L3 would have cost $1K more. Now the L3 is the same price. I wish I had waited. I am happy with the 345 but I think I would have been happier with the L3.
 
Jaker7 said:
2005 Cessna T182T with 1650 hours and G1000/non WAAS. Just retired and now have time to shop around for an ADS-B. Locked in on the GTX Garmin 345. Got two quotes today for purchase of the GTX 345 and installation. One was $6,900 and the other was $13,475. After discussion, the more expensive proposal was reduced as they realized my plane was non- WAAS, saves $2,450 with no needed software update for G1000, saved $780 by not getting the optional pilot’s guide for the 345, kept $400 for a cockpit reference guide, and still have $1,120 for Flightstream 110. What are others paying for this with comparable airplanes? Do I need the Flightstream 110 or does the 345 already have that capability?
Click to expand...

I give my customers all Flight Manuals and Reference Guides for FREE. You all spend WAYYYYY Too MUCH on these things. Its the least anyone could do for you all!!!!
 
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