The 2019 Hawaii Crash and The “Bad Flight Instructor”

C

CaptainRobertRiter

Ejection Handle Pulled
Joined
Dec 23, 2023
Messages
65
Display Name
Display name:
CaptRobertRiter
Dear Aviators and beloved A&P’s, What would you guys say if I told you that an accident was caused due to “bad instruction” given three years prior to an accident? What would you say if I told you that a turbine engine was running at full power at impact, and yet the propeller blades were mostly undamaged? In fact, on a three blade propeller one blade, the one that struck the ground first, was snapped off at a 90 degree angle while the other two were undamaged at the tips. All the while telling you that the propeller blades were turning above 2300 RPM. The engine roaring with the power of a fully loaded semi truck going down the freeway? On the PT6 engine there is 756 shaft horse power at full power. That the aircraft “flipped inverted” which is the hallmark of a Vmc event, but call it a stall caused by a reckless pilot? The hallmark of a stall is the nose drops. Then use these conclusions to harm the “bad flight instructor,” and create a new policy of going after our new flight instructors? Unfortunately, these are not the words of the local hanger guy that is off his medications. Rather the actions of the NTSB and the FAA in an official accident report. For I am that “Bad Instructor,” and why my call sign became “That Guy!” It was actually pronounced “Duck That Guy” If you know what I mean. I know, I know, how could other pilots use such fowl language? I have attached the first article on this topic along with it’s flight patch. I plan on doing a flight patch for each topic, and currently I am up to more then 20 patches! I intend to provide many of you with what is going on in aviation legally and politically. This topic is not covered from what I have seen. Whenever a pilot or mechanic is confronted by the FAA and NTSB everyone at the airport flees from that person. Please tell me if anyone is on our side for pilots and mechanics? Are there any safeguards in place against wrong doings? I have not found any? I have YouTube videos on this topic at Capt.Robert”ThatGuy”Riter if you want to watch. I even went to Piqua, Ohio to confront Hartzell Propeller over “their factual report” on the propeller. They were shocked that someone called them out. How dare someone question the narrative put forth by the FAA and NTSB. That is something we Americans have stopped doing…to our peril. God Bless! Keep Flying Speed!
 

Attachments

  • Hartzell LTR public.pdf
    4.7 MB · Views: 64
  • 94080D76-B958-4C1C-BD83-99157B419F4B.jpeg
    94080D76-B958-4C1C-BD83-99157B419F4B.jpeg
    1.7 MB · Views: 42
Ohh another logo! This must mean it’s a big deal.

Do you have something besides a patch and a complaint?
 
Last edited:
Salty said:
Ohh another logo! This must mean it’s a big deal.

Do you have something behind a patch and a complaint?
Click to expand...
Well sir, this is about the NTSB falsifying an accident report. I believe that the FAA inspector violated my 4th amendment rights and engaged in 3 misdemeanor criminal acts under the Privacy Act of 1974, and so on, and so on! My main goal is to clear the name of Captain Jerome Renck. He was my student from zero hours to 700 hours. Lived at my home for two years and was a dear friend. He was a retired investment banker from England, so not the reckless person the NTSB made him out to be.
 
Maybe you can partner with that other YouTuber. There are some similarities.
 
I know there's a roasting in progress (it's the interwebz after all), but jest aside I don't find his criticism of the NTSB work's quality control, outside of the proverbial standard deviation. I do consider the NTSB guilty, heck continually capable, of wholesale shoddy @ss work in the non-airline accident space. And they're notoriously late to their reports to boot, to the point I feel it subverts the entire premise behind the safety enterprise in the first place. I don't know why this would be a hot take, given the decades of likeminded criticism on this matter found within POA threads young or old.

I suppose the only thing I find worthy of re-evaluation is whether the degree of criticism of Hartzell is warranted. Mind you I don't know anything about the inside baseball regarding this accident, I'm just openly wondering. If we are to argue the NTSB misattributed the sourcing of the data analysis, then it would stand to reason Hartzell shouldn't be the one to catch flak about that. NTSB findings can't be used in court anyways, so it's not like Hartzell would be insulating itself from liability from lawsuits forthcoming from the paying customers' families, by conspiring against the pilot in some inadmissible accident report. But again, all we have here is the word of an instructor defending his name and the name of the deceased, we don't really know what Hartzell positions is in the matter. Were there lawsuits from the affected parties' estates?

Lastly, I am curious as to what FAA policy was the one being cited that risked "ruining the lives of young instructors before they went to the airlines". Personally, I loathe the fact flight training is used as a conduit to entry level airline jerb peddling in the US. Depressing wages, and lowering the quality of the work being performed day to day by people who have no business instructing for money, whether by lack of outright instructional aptitude, or (more commonly) lack of interest in devoting the required energy to do right by the students. I do disclose my bias as a career flight instructor in the military when I make that remark. I'd love to make it a follow-on career given the schedules and nature of the flights, I just can't afford that level of paycut for the experience I bring to the table.

At any rate, this thread has potential. Looking forward to the kerfuffle.
 
Last edited:
CaptainRobertRiter said:
Well sir, this is about the NTSB falsifying an accident report. I believe that the FAA inspector violated my 4th amendment rights and engaged in 3 misdemeanor criminal acts under the Privacy Act of 1974, and so on, and so on! My main goal is to clear the name of Captain Jerome Renck. He was my student from zero hours to 700 hours. Lived at my home for two years and was a dear friend. He was a retired investment banker from England, so not the reckless person the NTSB made him out to be.
Click to expand...
There are hundreds upon hundreds of pages of documents involved in the NTSB investigation, found in the docket, and it includes very little that shines any good light on the operator, the pilot, and other related matters. Sorry you have had to experience the loss of a friend, but he was the PIC. Regarding your issue with the FAA or NTSB; that’s a separate matter.
 
Last edited:
Picking some nits with the FAA...you're not as squeaky clean as you lead on.

A case in point is a recent civil penalty case, In the Matter of: Robert M. Riter d/b/a Riter Aviation. In Riter, the Respondent was the co-owner of a Cessna 172. According to the FAA, the Respondent authorized the use of his aircraft and arranged a pilot to fly two passengers on a round-trip from Torrance, CA to Las Vegas, NV in exchange for $660.00. The FAA found out about the arrangement during its investigation after the aircraft crashed shortly after departing for the return trip to California.
 
CaptainRobertRiter said:
Dear Aviators and beloved A&P’s, What would you guys say if I told you that an accident was caused due to “bad instruction” given three years prior to an accident? What would you say if I told you that a turbine engine was running at full power at impact, and yet the propeller blades were mostly undamaged? In fact, on a three blade propeller one blade, the one that struck the ground first, was snapped off at a 90 degree angle while the other two were undamaged at the tips. All the while telling you that the propeller blades were turning above 2300 RPM. The engine roaring with the power of a fully loaded semi truck going down the freeway? On the PT6 engine there is 756 shaft horse power at full power. That the aircraft “flipped inverted” which is the hallmark of a Vmc event, but call it a stall caused by a reckless pilot? The hallmark of a stall is the nose drops. Then use these conclusions to harm the “bad flight instructor,” and create a new policy of going after our new flight instructors? Unfortunately, these are not the words of the local hanger guy that is off his medications. Rather the actions of the NTSB and the FAA in an official accident report. For I am that “Bad Instructor,” and why my call sign became “That Guy!” It was actually pronounced “Duck That Guy” If you know what I mean. I know, I know, how could other pilots use such fowl language? I have attached the first article on this topic along with it’s flight patch. I plan on doing a flight patch for each topic, and currently I am up to more then 20 patches! I intend to provide many of you with what is going on in aviation legally and politically. This topic is not covered from what I have seen. Whenever a pilot or mechanic is confronted by the FAA and NTSB everyone at the airport flees from that person. Please tell me if anyone is on our side for pilots and mechanics? Are there any safeguards in place against wrong doings? I have not found any? I have YouTube videos on this topic at Capt.Robert”ThatGuy”Riter if you want to watch. I even went to Piqua, Ohio to confront Hartzell Propeller over “their factual report” on the propeller. They were shocked that someone called them out. How dare someone question the narrative put forth by the FAA and NTSB. That is something we Americans have stopped doing…to our peril. God Bless! Keep Flying Speed!
Click to expand...
If you want people to put effort into reading your posts you will have to put some effort into writing them.
 
It is my observation that some flight instructors do a terrible job of preparing their learners for their practical test.

It is a waste of the examiners time and the learners money.

Most learners believe that because I am certificated by the FAA I will do a good job of teaching them to FAA standards.

If I don’t teach to FAA standards it is reasonable to expect repercussions.

Hardly a day goes by when there is not an accident involving something that should have been learned in the first few hours of flight instruction.

I would expect a designated pilot examiner to fail a little over 20% of the applicants given the current quality of instruction and I would expect him to get some pressure from the FAA if he didn't.

I don't want my friends to fly with ignorant dangerous pilots because a flight instructor failed or a DPE didn't do their job.
 
Vance Breese said:
It is my observation that some flight instructors do a terrible job of preparing their learners for their practical test.
Click to expand...
OTOH, some instructors may do a good job of preparing their students for the practical test, but a terrible job of preparing them for flying on their own in the real world.
 
squincher said:
What's the patch for this one look like?

http://www.aerolegalservices.com/AviationLawDiscussions.shtml
Click to expand...
Here it is sir!
Racerx said:
Picking some nits with the FAA...you're not as squeaky clean as you lead on.

A case in point is a recent civil penalty case, In the Matter of: Robert M. Riter d/b/a Riter Aviation. In Riter, the Respondent was the co-owner of a Cessna 172. According to the FAA, the Respondent authorized the use of his aircraft and arranged a pilot to fly two passengers on a round-trip from Torrance, CA to Las Vegas, NV in exchange for $660.00. The FAA found out about the arrangement during its investigation after the aircraft crashed shortly after departing for the return trip to California.
Click to expand...
Dear Squincher, Thank you for your research! By any chance did you see any of the following facts of the case? The two pilots were long time renters and students of mine before the flight. One for over 5 years and the other by 2 years. The other guy was the boyfriend of the other pilot whom I had never met. Did you see the NTSB report where the investigator used a $800 cash withdrawal from an ATM for a weekend in Las Vegas and called it a “airline ticket?” Did you know that the these pilots topped the fuel, had 150lbs bags, two of them weighed about 250 lbs and the other was 150 lbs, and then tried to fly out of Las Vegas at 2 in the afternoon. Did the report reflect that the FAA safety inspector gave me official FAA letter that the case was closed, and that no further actions were being taken. Only to have the FAA wait 3 days before the statute of limitations were to expire to file charges. Were the charges reflected as operating an illegal airlines with a Cessna 172 with long time renters and students? The main pilot had just earned his Instrument rating two weeks before the crash. Did the report reflect that out of the $660 I was supposed to be paid that less then $200 was earned after fuel and engine time? So I ran an illegal airline for less then $200. If fact, most Part 135 violations involve situations where no money was involved. Did the report reflect that out of the 20 page investigation 7 pages where favorable information for me, but the FAA lawyers redacted ALL seven pages (ie. Blacked it out). That the FAA judge had no problem with this as it is ”Standard Procedure.” The FAA did not win one argument during the 8 hour trial. After the trail the FAA judge and FAA lawyers got together, rewrote the facts of the case, and then found me guilty. You my dear friend is why I have began writing articles and making flight patches about these issues. Anyone that comes up against the FAA is personally destroyed, and there are NO SAFEGUARDS IN PLACE! NONE! There are no protections for airman and mechanics. What I have always found amazing is that most of the harm is done by fellow aviators. Not the FAA or NTSB who are free to do whatever they want too with complete immunity. The last time I was in the FSDO the FAA inspector shouted out “We are the Federal Government and we can do whatever we want too!” Not a single FAA employee in the front office blinked, nor did a FAA supervisor take any action. I find this treatment to be horrific. I pray that the aviation community can come together and demand fair treatment of aviators and mechanics in the future. This topic will be a complete article and another flight patch of course! If this long reply has had any effect upon you, I pray that maybe next time you will consider coming to the aid of a fellow airman before condemning him. God Bless!
 

Attachments

  • 6073763A-8C89-4479-908C-78039D95B93F.jpeg
    6073763A-8C89-4479-908C-78039D95B93F.jpeg
    1.7 MB · Views: 7
hindsight2020 said:
I know there's a roasting in progress (it's the interwebz after all), but jest aside I don't find his criticism of the NTSB work's quality control, outside of the proverbial standard deviation. I do consider the NTSB guilty, heck continually capable, of wholesale shoddy @ss work in the non-airline accident space. And they're notoriously late to their reports to boot, to the point I feel it subverts the entire premise behind the safety enterprise in the first place. I don't know why this would be a hot take, given the decades of likeminded criticism on this matter found within POA threads young or old.

I suppose the only thing I find worthy of re-evaluation is whether the degree of criticism of Hartzell is warranted. Mind you I don't know anything about the inside baseball regarding this accident, I'm just openly wondering. If we are to argue the NTSB misattributed the sourcing of the data analysis, then it would stand to reason Hartzell shouldn't be the one to catch flak about that. NTSB findings can't be used in court anyways, so it's not like Hartzell would be insulating itself from liability from lawsuits forthcoming from the paying customers' families, by conspiring against the pilot in some inadmissible accident report. But again, all we have here is the word of an instructor defending his name and the name of the deceased, we don't really know what Hartzell positions is in the matter. Were there lawsuits from the affected parties' estates?

Lastly, I am curious as to what FAA policy was the one being cited that risked "ruining the lives of young instructors before they went to the airlines". Personally, I loathe the fact flight training is used as a conduit to entry level airline jerb peddling in the US. Depressing wages, and lowering the quality of the work being performed day to day by people who have no business instructing for money, whether by lack of outright instructional aptitude, or (more commonly) lack of interest in devoting the required energy to do right by the students. I do disclose my bias as a career flight instructor in the military when I make that remark. I'd love to make it a follow-on career given the schedules and nature of the flights, I just can't afford that level of paycut for the experience I bring to the table.

At any rate, this thread has potential. Looking forward to the kerfuffle.
Click to expand...
Dear Hindsight2020, You are correct that Hartzell is not responsible for the accident and has no liability. Hartzell Propellers has always made a good product, and is actually my favorite propeller. When I first contacted the investigator for Hartzell he told me Hartzell did NO analysis and they made no report on this propeller. That the NTSB did all of the findings. Then I show up in the lobby after emails, phone calls, and a public letter. Then this guy comes out and says it was his report and are all his findings. Nothing to back up why the left propeller was undamaged except for “they do that sometimes.” Well of course. Do we want a guy to lose his job? Does Hartzell want to lose their FAA approval for making propellers. With this in mind I just want the aviation community to realize that our freedom of speech, and the ability to even disagree with obvious falsehoods are being lost. Looking forward to the hate from my fellow aviators! Having you guys at least waking up to what is going on is worth it! I am working on an article about the flight training and DPE check ride issues now. After being a flight school and CFI for 30 years I think you guys will enjoy it. The flight patch is “FAA Check Rides- with pair of dice showing snake eyes- You Lose!” God Bless!
 
dmspilot said:
If you want people to put effort into reading your posts you will have to put some effort into writing them.
Click to expand...
Ouch!! I think Saint Nick left some carbon in your plugs! Hope you clean and gap them soon! Happy New Year!
 
CaptainRobertRiter said:
Ouch!! I think Saint Nick left some carbon in your plugs! Hope you clean and gap them soon! Happy New Year!
Click to expand...

I haven't kept up with this thread at all but when I see a post by someone with the inability to write in paragraphs, I move right on along ...
 
Last edited:
CaptainRobertRiter said:
Here it is sir!

Dear Squincher, Thank you for your research! By any chance did you see any of the following facts of the case? The two pilots were long time renters and students of mine before the flight. One for over 5 years and the other by 2 years. The other guy was the boyfriend of the other pilot whom I had never met. Did you see the NTSB report where the investigator used a $800 cash withdrawal from an ATM for a weekend in Las Vegas and called it a “airline ticket?” Did you know that the these pilots topped the fuel, had 150lbs bags, two of them weighed about 250 lbs and the other was 150 lbs, and then tried to fly out of Las Vegas at 2 in the afternoon. Did the report reflect that the FAA safety inspector gave me official FAA letter that the case was closed, and that no further actions were being taken. Only to have the FAA wait 3 days before the statute of limitations were to expire to file charges. Were the charges reflected as operating an illegal airlines with a Cessna 172 with long time renters and students? The main pilot had just earned his Instrument rating two weeks before the crash. Did the report reflect that out of the $660 I was supposed to be paid that less then $200 was earned after fuel and engine time? So I ran an illegal airline for less then $200. If fact, most Part 135 violations involve situations where no money was involved. Did the report reflect that out of the 20 page investigation 7 pages where favorable information for me, but the FAA lawyers redacted ALL seven pages (ie. Blacked it out). That the FAA judge had no problem with this as it is ”Standard Procedure.” The FAA did not win one argument during the 8 hour trial. After the trail the FAA judge and FAA lawyers got together, rewrote the facts of the case, and then found me guilty. You my dear friend is why I have began writing articles and making flight patches about these issues. Anyone that comes up against the FAA is personally destroyed, and there are NO SAFEGUARDS IN PLACE! NONE! There are no protections for airman and mechanics. What I have always found amazing is that most of the harm is done by fellow aviators. Not the FAA or NTSB who are free to do whatever they want too with complete immunity. The last time I was in the FSDO the FAA inspector shouted out “We are the Federal Government and we can do whatever we want too!” Not a single FAA employee in the front office blinked, nor did a FAA supervisor take any action. I find this treatment to be horrific. I pray that the aviation community can come together and demand fair treatment of aviators and mechanics in the future. This topic will be a complete article and another flight patch of course! If this long reply has had any effect upon you, I pray that maybe next time you will consider coming to the aid of a fellow airman before condemning him. God Bless!
Click to expand...

No, it just said you ran an illegal charter service. Why did the FAA and NTSB decide to single you out?
 
squincher said:
No, it just said you ran an illegal charter service. Why did the FAA and NTSB decide to single you out?
Click to expand...
I was fine until I tried to help out a “friend.” He was a DPE I used often and I thought was a good guy. I heard from others that another FSDO was building a case against him due to some complaints. I called him and just said, ”Can I tell you something that you just keep between us?” The answer was of course you can! I just told him that another FSDO was getting complaints, and just to make sure he was careful. Within a day I was notified that my FSDO was fighting like cats and dogs with this DPE’s FSDO over my private phone call. The DPE called his FSDO right after hanging up with me! After that if was all on to harm me! That’s literally all it takes to become a marked person. About 90 percent of pilots never have any contact with the FAA or NTSB. Look at your airports around you. Only a small number of FBO’s with limited personnel are there. These FBO owners are the ones that get the brunt of these attacks, and they don’t say anything out of fear of retaliation. No one stands up when they are destroying someone. All you see is the hanger doors closing and a line at the gate to leave the airport. In the deposition for this case it came out that the FAA Inspectors, which were fighting over my phone call, were influencing the witnesses. Saying that I was a bad person that they were trying to get rid of. After that incident I stopped talking to everyone at the airport. That’s why most experienced pilots and mechanics keep to themselves. This culture of fear is one of the issues I want to confront and see if we can change.
 
Hey Guys!
Maybe we need a new thread on this topic as the one I intended did not happen. My question was about the narrative put forth on a fallen aviator. Is it okay with the aviation community to allow an incoherent false narrative to be accepted? Even defended by other pilots? I knew Captain Jerome Renck for years. Trained him from zero hours to 700! When we look at the NTSB report, which scoured the island for people to say bad things about Renck, we are left with just a few accusers! These witnesses had very few encounters with Captain Renck. Yet the aviation community believes them without a doubt. One pilot that obviously got fired from the jump school saying he rolled a King Air in flight. As a mechanic I would say that if he did such a thing he would have landed with a smoked engine. A woman that said the take offs were ”aggressive.” And when she complained Captain Renck did his best to make the flights more comfortable for her. And another that said Captain Renck did “zero gravity” to make the flights more fun. This was a retired investment banker in his late 40’s to early 50’s. This was not a young hot shot kid! All of the replies so far to this thread are that of either supporting the NTSB report just because its the NTSB, or finding fault with me for other matters.
Are we a community that will let our fallen aviators be defamed, blamed, and reputations destroyed without any insight? Should we allow such actions to happen just because it does not affect us directly? Should we allow the parents, the brother, and the little daughter of Captain Renck to be told that he killed himself and ten other people on such flimsy witnesses, and when the evidence does not much up? Each flight we take we can encounter a situation that is not fixable and fatal. Do we want our family, friends, and public to be deceived and our reputation ruined?
This is the conversation I wished to start. These are the questions that I think we need to address. I wrote in paragraphs to please the guy with the fouled plugs! Hope you’re running smoothly now. Might I add your way over TBO?
By the way, I am writing an article about Captain Jerome Renck. Here is the flight patch dedicated to him, and to all the other aviators that have fallen in the line of duty! God Bless! Happy New Year!
 

Attachments

  • E928AFB2-ED78-4D2F-94C5-789620E57FE5.jpeg
    E928AFB2-ED78-4D2F-94C5-789620E57FE5.jpeg
    1.2 MB · Views: 6
Racerx said:
Picking some nits with the FAA...you're not as squeaky clean as you lead on.

A case in point is a recent civil penalty case, In the Matter of: Robert M. Riter d/b/a Riter Aviation. In Riter, the Respondent was the co-owner of a Cessna 172. According to the FAA, the Respondent authorized the use of his aircraft and arranged a pilot to fly two passengers on a round-trip from Torrance, CA to Las Vegas, NV in exchange for $660.00. The FAA found out about the arrangement during its investigation after the aircraft crashed shortly after departing for the return trip to California.
Click to expand...
Never said I was ”squeaky clean!” However, I will say I have never been punished for misdeeds that I have committed. I always get punished for what others do. I think if I ever get punished for something I personally did I would rejoice! Please read the NTSB report and be just as critical and sharp minded as you have been with me sir. Gob Bless!
 
CaptainRobertRiter said:
He was a retired investment banker from England, so not the reckless person the NTSB made him out to be.
Click to expand...
Irrelevant. Success in other areas does not equal success in flying.
CaptainRobertRiter said:
saying he rolled a King Air in flight. As a mechanic I would say that if he did such a thing he would have landed with a smoked engine.
Click to expand...
Not at all. Any airplane can do a properly executed barrell roll without undue stress on the airframe or components.

By the way, what are all these "Captains" Captains of?
 
Randomskylane said:
He desperately needs an editor. In fact, he probably needs a third party to decipher and rewrite before the editor cleans it up.
Click to expand...
Dear Randomskylane,
You are correct! I am not a writer or editor. I am a pilot. I am a retired Captain that has had a wonderful career with thousands of hours flown. I see many issues facing aviation and our new pilots that are not even being addressed. Just having you read the articles and posts to see my errors is okay. Hopefully, the issues that are raised starts conversations and awareness so we can fix things. Thanks for putting up with me! God Bless!
 
Dana said:
Irrelevant. Success in other areas does not equal success in flying.

Not at all. Any airplane can do a properly executed barrell roll without undue stress on the airframe or components.

By the way, what are all these "Captains" Captains of?
Click to expand...
Dear Dana,
Captain Renck earned high 90’s on his PPL and Commercial written tests, and 100 percent on his Instrument written. He earned his PPL in two months, his Instrument rating in about another two months, and then his Commercial in another two months. He did fail on his first attempt on each of these ratings for minor issues, and after a 30 minute retraining flight passed each check ride. This was more to do with how the FAA was manipulating check rides then a reflection upon Captain Renck.
He went on to fly as a commercial pilot for two years before the accident. As a corporate pilot I can tell you that anyone that is not good is removed quickly. A pilot does not last as long as Captain Renck if he is not good.
As a mechanic and owner of a plane that was “barrel rolled” I beg to differ! One of my Piper Warriors was rolled by renters and it smoked a cylinder on a factory fresh Lycoming. The PT-6 engine operates at much higher speeds which would cause much more damage.
Can I say that when we fly as PIC we are all Captains. Do you know that even a new Private Pilot is held to the same standards as an airline captain when he is in the air? This is more the case when flying IFR were a deviation is a deviation, and flight time and position are not even considered. Jerome Renck was in the left seat as a paid commercial pilot. What other term then Captain do you think we should use? Thank you for your post! Happy New Year!
 
CaptainRobertRiter said:
As a mechanic and owner of a plane that was “barrel rolled” I beg to differ! One of my Piper Warriors was rolled by renters and it smoked a cylinder on a factory fresh Lycoming. The PT-6 engine operates at much higher speeds which would cause much more damage.
Click to expand...
I did say, "properly executed." Just as a "properly executed" takeoff doesn't result in a stall/spin and a smoking hole in the ground. I do barrel rolls all the time in my plane and I've never "smoked a cylinder" or done any other damage to its Lycoming. If you mess it up and it becomes a "barrel dive" and you overspeed the engine, that may be a different matter.
CaptainRobertRiter said:
Can I say that when we fly as PIC we are all Captains.
Click to expand...
You can say that if you want to. It's even appropriate when speaking of an active airline captain or when dealing with third world customs officials. In casual conversation, it just sounds pompous.
 
Dana said:
I did say, "properly executed." Just as a "properly executed" takeoff doesn't result in a stall/spin and a smoking hole in the ground. I do barrel rolls all the time in my plane and I've never "smoked a cylinder" or done any other damage to its Lycoming. If you mess it up and it becomes a "barrel dive" and you overspeed the engine, that may be a different matter.

You can say that if you want to. It's even appropriate when speaking of an active airline captain or when dealing with third world customs officials. In casual conversation, it just sounds pompous.
Click to expand...
Dear Dana,
Flying in Mexico even a student pilot in a C-150 is a “Captain.” I have found that only in USA are pilots held with little regard and respect. And yet, even flying a C-150 a pilot has every obligation and duty to his/her passenger and those in the community below his aircraft.
 
CaptainRobertRiter said:
Can I say that when we fly as PIC we are all Captains. Do you know that even a new Private Pilot is held to the same standards as an airline captain when he is in the air? This is more the case when flying IFR were a deviation is a deviation, and flight time and position are not even considered. Jerome Renck was in the left seat as a paid commercial pilot. What other term then Captain do you think we should use?
Click to expand...
No no, don’t do that. There’s no need for Captain titles, and you’re WAY overusing it. If you’re retired, you’re not a Captain anymore, sorry. My day job is B-737 captain, but I sure as hell don’t use that as a title for anything at all.

Then again, may there’s something to having all these silly titles… I also fly with the CAF, where everyone’s a Colonel; I could be a Captain Colonel! Or would Colonel Captain sound more catchy and cool??
 
Hey @CaptainRobertRiter
The replies about putting thought into your posts and remark that you need an editor- well, they highlight an issue I have, trying to follow your posts.

I’m curious about this accident. It would help me, and others, to understand, if you laid out your points separately and as if we’re unfamiliar with all the details which you know intimately.

Read your post before you hit reply. Could someone unfamiliar with the particulars, understand it? How can you clarify it?

You’re correct that we aviators should take ownership and stand up for each other, when appropriate.


Lastly, God bless.
 
  • Like
Reactions: cdb
Looks like OP is a piece of work. He was the accident pilot's instructor. During the accident pilot's training flights as a student pilot, they flew illegal charter flights. These flights were entered into the student pilot's logbook as PIC time. The accident pilot failed each of his private, instrument, and commercial checkrides. But no, it's a government conspiracy to libel him :rolleyes:
 
Last edited:
CaptainRobertRiter said:
…He earned his PPL in two months, his Instrument rating in about another two months, and then his Commercial in another two months.…
Click to expand...
Was this back to back (zero to Comm SEL) in six-ish months? If so, impressive.

CaptainRobertRiter said:
…A pilot does not last as long as Captain Renck if he is not good.…
Click to expand...
Not to sound harsh, but it doesn’t sound like he lasted very long.

CaptainRobertRiter said:
…..As a mechanic and owner of a plane that was “barrel rolled” I beg to differ! One of my Piper Warriors was rolled by renters and it smoked a cylinder on a factory fresh Lycoming.
Click to expand...
What does one have to do with the other?

CaptainRobertRiter said:
…
Can I say that when we fly as PIC we are all Captains. ….
Click to expand...
Not if you’re a LT(JG). Seriously though use whatever floats your boat, but Captain is a duty title in some corners of aviation and that duty title may have nothing to do with being PIC.
 
SFDukie said:
Hey @CaptainRobertRiter
The replies about putting thought into your posts and remark that you need an editor- well, they highlight an issue I have, trying to follow your posts.

I’m curious about this accident. It would help me, and others, to understand, if you laid out your points separately and as if we’re unfamiliar with all the details which you know intimately.

Read your post before you hit reply. Could someone unfamiliar with the particulars, understand it? How can you clarify it?

You’re correct that we aviators should take ownership and stand up for each other, when appropriate.


Lastly, God bless.
Click to expand...
Dear SFDukie,
Thank you for your feedback. Yes, I am trying to get better at that, and I am following your good advice. Doing this is like going to do touch and go’s for the first time without an instructor. These issues are very complicated and hard to explain. Especially with the short attention spans of people these days, and the concise language needed. I will fail more times then I will succeed.
Right now I am preparing my complaint to FAA legal and to the DOT Inspector’s General Office. There are so many issues to unpack it is overwhelming for me. Just following up on the three criminal misdemeanors under the Privacy Act of 1974 will take me weeks. I submitted a complaint to the FAA Privacy Act Shop over a year ago, and as you can imagine it has been ignored. I bet no one here has even heard of this law. Don’t be worried, even the FAA employees don’t know it. It just happens to be on every single government form!
The direction I see this going is trying to call out the FAA and NTSB on these topics in a public forum. I am thinking of using the FAA Wings Program having open discussions with FSDO managers and FAA department heads. Will this be impossible to do? Probably. Should that stop the aviation community from knowing about these issues? I think it is my duty to help the next group of pilots to be aware of these issues. This is my hill to die on, so thank you for your kind words and good advice!
I am trying to just introduce one topic at a time. Such as the narrative put forth in the NTSB report. Then I introduced the evidence of the propeller. Then I introduced the witnesses used to condemn Capt. Renck. So far I have not seen any posts saying the narrative makes any sense, that a propeller can have little to no damage when impacting the ground with a fully running engine, that the witnesses show Renck was a reckless pilot. Coming up on just this one topic is breaking into my client’s hanger without a warrant to inspect the King Air I trained Renck in. How the FAA and NTSB hacked my emails and erased emails. How they violated the 4th amendment, engaged in criminal misdemeanors, etc, etc., etc.
I think it will take time for much of what I am explaining to make sense. I believe we are all interested in fair treatment under the law, protection of our privacy, and a community that stands up against wrong actions. Thanks for helping me! God bless!
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top