That's it I am getting my clearances on the ground

[ahmad]

I departed KMKY VFR and was attempting to get my clearance in the air. I tried calling Ft. Myers app on 124.12 several times and no answer. Meanwhile I am trying to dodge other traffic(busy airspace), the delta, and class C airspace. No answer no answer. Tune in <iami center to see if I can get it from them. Its busy and it took a bit to finally key in. Center tells me the approach frequency is down and to call 119.75. I didnt see any notams or anything anywhere to know that. Lesson learned. I am calling flight service on the ground going forward.

 

[Hang 4]

There's a CD frequency there - 120.8. Did you try that? Interestingly, no phone # to call.

 

[midlifeflyer]

Another good reason is a local change to your flight plan, especially in an unfamiliar area. During the busy departure phase is not the best time to deal with a full route clearance even if it’s not busy.

If no phone number or available frequency, the TRACON number from another airport using the same TRACON will work.

 

[dans2992]

Really wish the FAA would use PDC more to address things like this.

 

[Llewtrah381]

Whatever you do, avoid calling Leidos as best you can. In my experience they’re the clueless middleman at best.

 

[Let'sgoflying!]

Getting your clearance on the ground may not always be the fastest.
Have heard "Your release time will be delayed due to saturation; call back in 20 minutes"

(Getting clearance on ground may well resolve your concerns about traffic, however.)

 

[midlifeflyer]

Getting your clearance on the ground may not always be the fastest.
Have heard "Your release time will be delayed due to saturation; call back in 20 minutes"

If there is saturation your release can be delayed in the air also. “Unable to issue your clearance due to saturation. Maintain VFR and say intentions.”

I think it was YouTuber Baron Pilot who has a video where he tries the VFR departure to avoid delay strategy and was halfway to the destination before ATC would clear him.

 

[midlifeflyer]

Whatever you do, avoid calling Leidos as best you can. In my experience they’re the clueless middleman at best.

With the publishing of CD phone numbers several years ago now, Flight Service pretty much left the clearance middleman business. Even that old 800 national CD number is defunct.

But it’s not necessary to call FSS. They’d probably just give you the phone number from the A/FD. Here’s the entry from the A/FD

 

[bbchien]

NY departure is like that too, Ahmad. You fly VFR to Allentown if you want to go NOW.
You sit on the ground for ~4 hours if you need the IFR clearance.

B

 

[Llewtrah381]

With the publishing of CD phone numbers several years ago now, Flight Service pretty much left the clearance middleman business. Even that old 800 national CD number is defunct.

But it’s not necessary to call FSS. They’d probably just give you the phone number from the A/FD. Here’s the entry from the A/FD

View attachment 135152

By and large, yeah. But last spring I was trying to leave from KPRX, I think, and the A/FD said to contact FSS for clearance and if they were closed to contact Ft Worth Center. Trying to play by the rules, I tried just that. During the “telephone game” where they “put me on hold” on the radio while making the exact same call I shoulda made, I’m watching a cell move towards me - on NEXRAD and physically. They resisted me taking off even though I told them I could see it coming and see my path to the east. They finally let me go and it was a non-event. In hindsight I shoulda called Center: it would probably have tied even them up less and I would have had more margin in front of the cell.

Frankly, I’m not sure why that wording continues for there.

 

[Kritchlow]

I hate (love) reading about these things amateurs (who think they’re pros) do to save a few minutes.

 

[midlifeflyer]

By and large, yeah. But last spring I was trying to leave from KPRX, I think, and the A/FD said to contact FSS for clearance and if they were closed to contact Ft Worth Center. Trying to play by the rules, I tried just that. During the “telephone game” where they “put me on hold” on the radio while making the exact same call I shoulda made, I’m watching a cell move towards me - on NEXRAD and physically. They resisted me taking off even though I told them I could see it coming and see my path to the east. They finally let me go and it was a non-event. In hindsight I shoulda called Center: it would probably have tied even them up less and I would have had more margin in front of the cell.

Frankly, I’m not sure why that wording continues for there.

That was always the problem even when calling FSS was the only “official” option. Once I realized the limitations and the alternative, I started asking ATC when inbound for a number to reach them directly for my outbound clearance.

 

[ahmad]

A notam would have been nice.

 

[flyingcheesehead]

Whatever you do, avoid calling Leidos as best you can. In my experience they’re the clueless middleman at best.

That is exactly what they are/were. That's probably also why the FAA now just publishes phone numbers to get your clearance directly from ATC, which is the far better option anyway.

 

[WDD]

Interesting. For a non towered departure, I've always gotten clearance via phone to ATC. Didn't even know there was another option. A long time ago once or twice my CFII tried the radio/phone system which I believed involve clicking the mike a few times (or something like that), which never worked. Gads - what was that called? Remote something....

 

[midlifeflyer]

Interesting. For a non towered departure, I've always gotten clearance via phone to ATC. Didn't even know there was another option. A long time ago once or twice my CFII tried the radio/phone system which I believed involve clicking the mike a few times (or something like that), which never worked. Gads - what was that called? Remote something....

How long is “always?”

I think you are recalling a “Remote Communications Outlet” (radio to radio) but are describing a “Ground Communications Outlet” (radio to telephone). 4 mic clicks to dial ATC. 6 to dial FSS.

If I recall correctly, the publication of TRACON/Center numbers didn’t start until about 2017. For several years before that and until completion of the ATC publication project, we had a universal CD number - a Flight Service phone number with dedicated to acting as middleman. I think it may still be in use in Alaska. Before that, it was FSS generally.

Some airports had other ways. A reachable frequency. An RCO, a GCO.

But we’ve had the ability to call directly longer - if we knew the number and knew to use it. When flight service was acting as middleman, they were calling it. The GCO was calling it. When I started flying at TTA in 2013 (after 20 years at a towered airport) it had a GCO but I was quickly informed it rarely worked. The flying club I joined had the phone number for Raleigh TRACON posted. And ATC had been giving it out every time the gave you a number to call to cancel on the ground at a non-towered destination. That’s when I began asking for it even when I was going to cancel in the air.

 

[flyingcheesehead]

I think you are recalling a “Remote Communications Outlet” (radio to radio) but are describing a “Ground Communications Outlet” (radio to telephone). 4 mic clicks to dial ATC. 6 to dial FSS.

But we’ve had the ability to call directly longer - if we knew the number and knew to use it. When flight service was acting as middleman, they were calling it. The GCO was calling it. When I started flying at TTA in 2013 (after 20 years at a towered airport) it had a GCO but I was quickly informed it rarely worked.

I think those ones that "rarely work" are because people rarely remember how to use them. Someone asked on a local facebook pilots group, everyone said it didn't work, I asked if they clicked the mic and nobody seemed to even realize that's how you used it. Then they went and tried it that way and it worked!

And about a month later it was decommissioned.

 

[WDD]

Given everyone has a cell phone an and the ATC number is published, I don’t see a reason for them any more.

 

[midlifeflyer]

Given everyone has a cell phone an and the ATC number is published, I don’t see a reason for them any more.

Time marches on. Many have been decommissioned. At some point they will be go away of the National CD number, Flight Watch, DUAT. The one at my home base no longer appears in the AFD. Looking briefly at the Southeast Chart Supplement, looks like about 30 left in that region. The standard entries are a little funny. They say to use the CD phone when the GCO is unavailable. I wonder if anyone does that dance.

 

[John Collins]

We had an RCO for many years that used a leased telephone line to relay the VHF communications to CLT TRACON. The leased line was both expensive and failure prone and out of service often. last year a GCO was installed and the RCO was removed from the AFD. The GCO uses a dial up line, so VHF gets converted to a telephone call. It can be convenient if you don't have your cell phone already connected to the headset BT, which is the case if you have it connected to your iPad to get audio alerts. Otherwise, one needs to disconnect the BT between iPad and headset, make the connection to the iPhone, and when done, go back to connecting to the iPad. It can be a real nuisance.

 

[WDD]

How long is “always?”

Smart question. I got my instrument rating Jan 2022. So yeah, my only experience is calling ATC for clearances, using ForeFlight, magenta lines, ADSB traffic and weather, going direct, and 95% of approaches being RNAV.

No Victor routes, no VOR routes, no VOR approaches, no CDI VOR From/To navigation, no whiz wheel calculator, and no use of flight service.

 

[midlifeflyer]

We had an RCO for many years that used a leased telephone line to relay the VHF communications to CLT TRACON. The leased line was both expensive and failure prone and out of service often. last year a GCO was installed and the RCO was removed from the AFD. The GCO uses a dial up line, so VHF gets converted to a telephone call. It can be convenient if you don't have your cell phone already connected to the headset BT, which is the case if you have it connected to your iPad to get audio alerts. Otherwise, one needs to disconnect the BT between iPad and headset, make the connection to the iPhone, and when done, go back to connecting to the iPad. It can be a real nuisance.

LOL! That sounds like Jay Leno's old "how lazy are we" routines. I don't find a few seconds to connect my phone to my headset that big a nuisance. No need to disconnect my iPad first; a single tap to connect my phone.

 

[midlifeflyer]

No Victor routes,

If that's the case, it's about where you fly, not about the times. Here's my last IFR clearance, earlier this month, returning from New Jersey to North Carolina.

KMJX Radar Vectors V1 LEEAH T315 CHOPS T224 NUTTS V3 RDU KTTA

 

[WDD]

If that's the case, it's about where you fly, not about the times.

Interesting, hadn’t thought about that. I fly from Atlanta, so Southeast, Florida, S Carolina, and then up to KY, Illinois, Indiana, etc.

Never been in the North East.

 

[John Collins]

LOL! That sounds like Jay Leno's old "how lazy are we" routines. I don't find a few seconds to connect my phone to my headset that big a nuisance. No need to disconnect my iPad first; a single tap to connect my phone.

Go through the steps involved, it takes much longer than you indicate because you can't connect more than one device at a time. Do it, then report back how I can improve the sequence.

Edit, I am not lazy, but I am forgetful. I have an iPad Mini 5 mounted on the yoke that auto connects to my Lightspeed headset when I start up and taxi away from my hangar. The iPhone is in my pocket until I need to make the call. When I am ready to make the call to ATC, I have to select the settings app on the iPad and temporarily disconnect Lightspeed headset. If I don't do this, then I can't connect the iPhone to the headset. Then I go to the settings App on my iPhone, select the BT menu and tap the setting to connect to the headset. Then I can make my call. When completed, I go through the reverse process and first disconnect the Lightspeed from BT on the iPhone, go back to the iPad, choose the settings app, select the Lightspeed BT to reconnect. If I mess up and forget to first disconnect from the other device, I have to switch devices and go back to it to do the disconnect.

 

[WDD]

LOL! That sounds like Jay Leno's old "how lazy are we" routines. I don't find a few seconds to connect my phone to my headset that big a nuisance. No need to disconnect my iPad first; a single tap to connect my phone.

I’m even lazier. I connected my phone to the audio panel via blue tooth. So somehow everything just works; I just dial when I want to call. Although I have once or twice instinctively pushed the transmit button on the yoke when talking. I’m sure those on freq were annoyed and amused.

 

[midlifeflyer]

Interesting, hadn’t thought about that. I fly from Atlanta, so Southeast, Florida, S Carolina, and then up to KY, Illinois, Indiana, etc.

Never been in the North East.

Yep. I know that from my home base in NC, I can fly direct most anywhere south, east and west, although waypoints help with avoiding restricted areas and I tend to follow the at least one waypoint in each Center guidance.

But the northeast corridor is airway city. On the west coast, most of the SOCAL TEC routes were designed for VOR use. For example, the standard TEC for a flight from Santa Barbara (KSBA) to Gillespie field outside San Diego (KSEE) is HENER V186 DARTS V597 MZB.

 

[midlifeflyer]

Go through the steps involved, it takes much longer than you indicate because you can't connect more than one device at a time. Do it, then report back how I can improve the sequence.

By getting a better Bluetooth headset and an Android phone? Here are my steps.

Step 1. Go to the page on my phone where I placed the icon that connects my headset to my phone.
Step 2. Press the icon.

Yeah, it's more work to reconnect to my iPad since I don't have a shortcut that does it. That requires pulling down the Control Center, holding the BT icon, scrolling down to the device and tapping on it (same for disconnecting if you need to do that).

 

[Mikey52]

Not sure if it's cpdlc dependent or not, but WSI weather brief can pull up your clearance. Trying to get a full route clearance some times we would hit refresh on WSI and the clearance would be there. So it was already written down in the app and was easy to read back.

 

[WDD]

For me, and where I fly I guess, getting clearance on the ground is just part 1. Five minutes into the flight it will change to Direct if I'm going away from ATL, and if I stay within it will be changed to vectors. I get it, ATL is a busy airspace, and they need to adjust on the fly. Same as coming back to ATL area airport. Regardless of the clearance, it will change to either vectors or an Arrival. If you get an Arrival, you'll be flying it and then still get it changed to vectors.

I'm always amazed how someone in ATC can doe their job day in and day out. They've got to be wired differently than the normal person.