Thanks Ted!

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Brian Christopher

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Brian Flys Fla
Hi Ted,

I own a 182S and have for 15 years. 95% of my flights are full stop and shut down for a day or two. The 5% of my flights that require HOT starts have been the bain of my aviation career. I have tried everything at least once. And nothing has been reliable. The "Flooded" start has had the most luck and by luck I mean I can get it started just before the battery is dead and the starter still has a few teeth left on it.

I found your thread online about your method, did a screen shot and took it with me. My motor started perfectly the 1st shot, it was almost like it was trying start it's self. A beam of light from heaven and the sound of angels singing right after. I was set free. I'm only saddened that I didn't have or learn your method say 10 years ago.

Thanks Ted, the anxiety of hot starting my airplane is gone. I have learned the secret.

Blue Skys,

Brian Christopher
N357NC
 
So glad you found something that works; yay Ted!

I struggled with my hot starts for a while (TSIO-550 with one e-mag) until I accidentally discovered that what it really likes is....No Prime at all before cranking!
Hop in. Mixture in, throttle 1/2", crank and once it starts (3 blades max) THEN hit a little prime and give 1" throttle.
So if someone out there has not found their hotstart magic, here is yet another that someone has found to work for them.

One thing I did notice is that during the repeated changes in Idle Mixture/Metered and Unmetered fuelP, as outlined in section 6 of Continental's M-0 Maintenance Manual does change the hotstart requirements. Before I did that procedure, the optimal hot start was a lot different. (makes one wonder if an internal change in the fuel system which results in a hotstart change over time means that it is time to repeat the procedure)
 
I discovered a procedure on Beechtalk that solved my IO520 hot start problem. And what a problem it was! I even paid >$1,500 for an "Istart" system, which didn't work. They eventually gave me me my purchase price back but I was still out the labor charges.

Apparently the consensus is that the problem is the heat vaporizes the fuel in the fuel lines (or is it the fuel pump). The standard procedure is to run the boost pump for ~60 seconds to cool things off. But that always gave me a flooded fuel system. At least that was my thought because if I followed that procedure with the POH "flooded" procedure, it usually started, but only as the OP said, just prior to a dead battery and a very abused starter.

New procedure: (I might have modified it a bit).
SHORT burst from the aux fuel pump.
Mixture AND throttle full forward. (Actually throttle can be short of full).
Hit the ignition and begin backing off on the throttle. Pause when it starts to fire and if necessary, hit the booster for a few seconds. It usually starts about mid throttle. Then gingerly bring the throttle back to idle. Too fast and it dies. Too slow and it doesn't start. I wouldn't do this on a cold start.

My thought is the reason this works is that it dumps a bunch of cold fuel through the system cooling things off and when you back off the throttle it will always find the correct position to fire off. If you start with half throttle, it doesn't always work. My thinking here is that it doesn't dump enough cold fuel to cool things off.

At least that works for me.

As @denverpilot said, once you find a system that works, document it for the next owner.
 
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I remember when first learning in the 182 how much I feared hot starts because right after every lesson was 15 minute ground session with the CFI and then a hot start to run it back to the hangar or fly to the home base. After some good 182 love from nate (@denverpilot) and just how rich these carb'd versions run it slowly started to click. I found out it needed less primer shots that I thought. I also found out it doesn't always need full rich to start.

Now the irony: today on a hot summer day if its shutdown for about 40 minutes or less. I just pull the mixture slightly (1/2"). Zero primer shots (nada). Throttle same as cold start. Turn key and as it starts push the mixture back in the slight amount it was out. It starts almost instantly after turning the key, maybe 3 blades total.

I think what complicated things through last year was a old Gil battery wasn't cranking it over fast enough. But then again I hadn't been in another plane so I had no clue how fast a new, well charged Concorde would crank it over :)
 
Of course, you have to remember that hot starts in an injected engine are a completely different animal than in a carburetted engine.
 
denverpilot said:
Once you find the trick for your engine, put it in the checklist for someone in the future. :)
Click to expand...

Are you kidding? Real pilots should have to figure it out for themselves. No cheating. It's a right of passage when you graduate to a fuel injected engine! :D

Next thing you'll be advocating someone make a plane with a built in parachute. :eek:
Oh, ya...
 
Ted is the Jedi Master of hot starts.

JOhnH said:
Apparently the consensus is that the problem is the heat vaporizes the fuel in the fuel lines (or is it the fuel pump). The standard procedure is to run the boost pump for ~60 seconds to cool things off. But that always gave me a flooded fuel system. At least that was my thought because if I followed that procedure with the POH "flooded" procedure, it usually started, but only as the OP said, just prior to a dead battery and a very abused starter.
Click to expand...

It's the fuel lines. And you don't need the boost pump for 60 seconds - I've found that 20 is more than enough. If I can lean way over and get my head out the door so I can see when fuel starts dripping from the overflow, that's when you've done enough... But I've also found that if I put my fuel selector on the Right tank and leave the door open, I can hear the sound of the vapor and some liquid fuel coming from the return making squirting noises in the tank. When the noises stop, it's all liquid fuel coming down the return and I don't need to run the pump any more.

From that point, the "Ted Method" (which is kinda like a flooded start on some planes) works great: Prime exactly as you would if it were a cold start, pump off, firewall everything, crank while you pull the throttle out. It works FAR better than the procedure in the book, which I have since forgotten.
 
At the risk of sounding like an idiot who's been hiding in a cave for the past 20 years, where was "Ted's Method" originally posted?
 
Brian Christopher said:
Hi Ted,

I own a 182S and have for 15 years. 95% of my flights are full stop and shut down for a day or two. The 5% of my flights that require HOT starts have been the bain of my aviation career. I have tried everything at least once. And nothing has been reliable. The "Flooded" start has had the most luck and by luck I mean I can get it started just before the battery is dead and the starter still has a few teeth left on it.

I found your thread online about your method, did a screen shot and took it with me. My motor started perfectly the 1st shot, it was almost like it was trying start it's self. A beam of light from heaven and the sound of angels singing right after. I was set free. I'm only saddened that I didn't have or learn your method say 10 years ago.

Thanks Ted, the anxiety of hot starting my airplane is gone. I have learned the secret.

Blue Skys,

Brian Christopher
N357NC
Click to expand...

Hi Brian,

I'm glad that it works so well for you! 99+% of the time, the methods I advocate work great for starting the first time. :)

denverpilot said:
Once you find the trick for your engine, put it in the checklist for someone in the future. :)
Click to expand...

The one caveat I'll give with that is that most of the methods I've seen that aren't the ones I advocate will work maybe 90% of the time on that particular engine, but that then when they don't work, the pilot is left wondering what to do. Dave @Let'sgoflying! 's "no prime" method is one of those. Works great for some engines right up until it doesn't.

It's also worth noting that my recommended start procedures are different for Lycomings vs. Continentals as their fuel systems are completely different.

Ultimately the more tricks you have up your sleeve the better.

Rob58 said:
At the risk of sounding like an idiot who's been hiding in a cave for the past 20 years, where was "Ted's Method" originally posted?
Click to expand...

flyingcheesehead said:
Good question. I learned it from @jesse, who learned it from @Ted DuPuis, in person.
Click to expand...

I think I had it in one of my sticky threads here in Maintenance Bay, but it wasn't in the first post, so you may have to dig for it. Like I said above my recommendations are different for Lycomings vs. Continentals because the fuel systems are completely different between the two and thus the physics behind what you're doing is (logically) different.
 
The magical hot start method for an SR 22NA IO-550 for me is to go full throttle, full rich, boost on (not prime, just boost), wait until you hear the pump pitch change, (about 2 seconds), set throttle to 1/4 inch, start. Works every time, the engine is running within a blade usually.
 
Thank you!!! It seems we have found the holy grail of hot start methods... now on to aimlessly bore holes in the sky to heat up my engine and give it a try.
 
Rob58 said:
Thank you!!! It seems we have found the holy grail of hot start methods... now on to aimlessly bore holes in the sky to heat up my engine and give it a try.
Click to expand...

Like I said, note the differences between the Lycoming and Continental hot start methods and use the one appropriate for your aircraft.
 
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