Tesla Model 3 - Finally.

SoonerAviator said:
I'm all for right-to-repair as well, but once most all of the vehicles have moved to CAN-BUS systems and sensors for EVERYTHING, repairing the most basic of stuff can be a headache. The automotive industry has bought into the 90's BMW model for over-use of glitchy electronics, lol. Especially when many of these items are funneled through the infotainment system and subject to expensive failures down the line which won't likely have a huge aftermarket part supply.
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The prices to repair this stuff is stupid money. Coworker just blew $1600 for Goodyears on a 2019 Tahoe that has OEM original wheels on it. That didn't even include tire pressure sensors. The windshield is also busted on this thing and the part alone is over $700.

I laughed at him and said that's about three sets of 80K mile tires on my Grand Marquis with the 225/60R/16 wheels.

Coworker Mazda6, $1k to replace a windshield, independent shop put in the glass, dealer calibrated the lane departure system.

I've bought three windshields so far in my life, none were over $300 after tax & installation.

Sliding power door actuator broke on my 2010 Caravan, dealer wanted $627 + tax just for the part. I bought a salvage one on ebay, removed the parts I needed and swapped to my broken one for $100 total. Plus I recorded the lengths of the wire rope and next time I'll just make the cables using some 1/16" aircraft wire rope for $10.
 
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bnt83 said:
The prices to repair this stuff is stupid money. Coworker just blew $1600 for Goodyears on a 2019 Tahoe that has OEM argininal wheels on it. That didn't even include tire pressure sensors. The windshield is also busted on this thing and the part alone is over $700.

I laughed at him and said that's about three sets of 80K mile tires on my Grand Marquis with the 225/60R/16 wheels.

Coworker Mazda6, $1k to replace a windshield, independent shop put in the glass, dealer calibrated the lane departure system.

I've bought three windshields so far in my life, none were over $300 after tax & installation.

Sliding power door actuator broke on my 2010 Caravan, dealer wanted $627 + tax just for the part. I bought a salvage one on ebay, removed the parts I needed and swapped to my broken one for $100 total. Plus I recorded the lengths of the wire rope and next time I'll just make the cables using some 1/16" aircraft wire rope.
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Yup, just replaced the windshield in my '03 Excursion and it was right around $300 installed. I'd cringe at the thought of replacing the windshield on the '17 Caddy as it has the forward collision/lane departure//heads-up-display/etc. systems on it. Easily $1K to replace I'm sure. The tires for your coworker is probably them just not sourcing a better price as there are plenty of 18"/20" highway tires that only run $250 or less per tire even for major brands. If he decided to get all-terrain tires with heavier tread/wider tread the prices will reflect that.
 
Larry in TN said:
I don't know a lot about the Leaf, but I believe that they did NOT have a battery thermal management system, which later EVs do have, and that contributed to a shorter-than-expected battery life.
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They had a BMS, but it was also an air-cooled battery. My Ford Fusion Energi had one of those too - It pulled air from the cabin, since the batteries tend to like the same temps humans do.

Conduction > Convection, thus liquid cooling > air cooling. I hope nobody is still air-cooling batteries these days.
 
AggieMike88 said:
I can picture Elon scribbling “amphibian Tesla??” Into his crazy ideas notebook that contains sections on SpaceX and other profitable ventures.
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He owns the James Bond submarine Lotus Esprit from The Spy Who Loved Me, and there's this: https://spectrum.ieee.org/elon-musk-plans-to-make-his-007-submarine-car-real

And, I think this only works if you have an S or X with the air suspension, but if you entered "007" as your car's name, the UI would change so it showed the submarine Esprit instead of your Tesla, Driver Settings became Diver Settings, etc... https://www.notateslaapp.com/news/40/james-bond-lotus-esprit-submarine-easter-egg

SoonerAviator said:
Truck: $30K
Gas: $100
Not being seen driving a BMW i3 or Prius: Priceless

"There are some things money can't buy, for everything else, there's Mastercard." :)
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The i3 is definitely the ugliest car I've ever had, but it was fun to drive and it was really easy to spot. "You can find me in the car that looks like a suppository wearing a tuxedo." :rofl:

Bob Noel said:
oof - when was the last time I pulled into a gas station only to find every single pump taken? I don't think I've ever had that problem.
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When was the last time I fueled my ICE car at home every night in my garage? Oh yeah.

They're vastly different beasts. I'll take the convenience that it gets me 50+ weeks of the year for the slight inconveniences on the relatively rare trip outside its range. FWIW, I've had my car for 14 months, and been to a Supercharger only 6 times.

Larry in TN said:
What I have been trying to explain, for months now, is that EVs are different. You don't think about them in the same terms as an ICE car. Doing so is what confuses people. You don't need the same range or "refueling" time as an ICE car. (Though, my EV range is similar to the gasoline range of my Mazdas) The car is "full" everyday when you leave your garage. When you are on a road trip, you don't "fill up" when you are waiting for the car to charge. You charge enough to make it to your next stop, plus reserve--just like flight planning. The car's navigation system figures it all out for you.

Unless you are regularly driving 200+ miles per day, that's 52,000mi/yr Mo-Fr, you aren't going to have to stop to charge your car away from home. Because of this, owning an EV is more convenient than owning an ICE car for most of us.
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This. All of this.

However, the ICE lifestyle is so ingrained in us that it's really hard to understand the EV lifestyle until you experience it for yourself.
 
flyingcheesehead said:
They had a BMS, but it was also an air-cooled battery. My Ford Fusion Energi had one of those too - It pulled air from the cabin, since the batteries tend to like the same temps humans do.

Conduction > Convection, thus liquid cooling > air cooling. I hope nobody is still air-cooling batteries these days.
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Pipistrel is air cooled.
Leaf, last I checked still is.
And some of the latest batteries from BYD (just PR, no idea on quality or anything) have gone back to air cooling.

In all cases, all are using air cooling for weight savings. Usually there is some other compromise to make it work. For example, the BYD batteries I have read on, are larger in size.

Tim
 
Another issue that the EV fans avoid talking about. Range is pathetic in winter months.

 
Velocity173 said:
Another issue that the EV fans avoid talking about. Range is pathetic in winter months.

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Electric trucks will have significant problems in winter. The large cab provides for significant heat loss. That means more energy required to warm the cabin. Until this issue is addressed through insulation or some other measure, it will not be solved.

Tim
 
I think heat is less the issue than the loss of power and efficiency of the batteries.
 
Velocity173 said:
Another issue that the EV fans avoid talking about. Range is pathetic in winter months.
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Range undeniably goes down in the winter. Our Clarity PHEV could get 50+ miles of EV range in the summer, dropped to high 30’s in the winter. Honda claimed a 47 mile average.

The key to the issue in EV’s is to buy enough range that it’s satisfactory - not “pathetic” - even in the winter. Buying “just enough” range as advertised by manufacturers is bound to leave one disappointed in the winter. So buy more - as much as you can afford. Our Model 3 Long Range, nominally with I think 358 miles of range, still has adequate range even in the depth of winter - such as we have in E TN anyway,
 
Ok, maybe “pathetic” is exaggerating a bit. But, all EVs do poorly in the cold. Not just trucks.

My Volt’s rated range was 40 miles. In the winter I’d get maybe 23-25miles. Driving the Model S in the winter I pretty much take about a 1/3 off the range estimator for real world range.
 
tspear said:
Electric trucks will have significant problems in winter. The large cab provides for significant heat loss. That means more energy required to warm the cabin. Until this issue is addressed through insulation or some other measure, it will not be solved.
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Salty said:
I think heat is less the issue than the loss of power and efficiency of the batteries.
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And there are other issues that likely combine to an even larger effect: Increased aerodynamic drag in the thick cold air, increased rolling resistance, etc... Those are effects that are not specific to EVs, but nobody cares because nobody talks about range of ICEVs. They just buy more gas in the winter.

You definitely need to buy a car with sufficient range. I know my Bolt could do about 150 miles in the dead of winter (rated at 259). It has pretty terrible aerodynamics though, and that was highway driving and it's only rated at 217 on the highway.

My Tesla, however, does pretty well... And because I like data, here's what my car has done as far as efficiency at various temperatures:

chart_main.png
It's the line you're looking at here, the bars merely represent how many miles I've driven in each temperature range. Above 90 and below 0, not enough to be super accurate, but you can see that I get peak efficiency in the 70-75ºF range and about 75% of the peak at 25ºF.
 
tspear said:
Why the dip at 90-95; or is that the lack of data you were referencing?
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With so few miles driven, in the 90-95 sample, some other factors (high speed, elevation change, etc.) likely skewed the data. In the other samples, with many more miles driven, those anomalies would have averaged out.
 
If anyone was on the fence, Telsa just implemented a significant price drop across the line. Enough to qualify meant models for the $7,500 federal tax credit:


BREAKING: @Tesla has reduced their car prices MASSIVELY
in the US. Changes:
• Model 3 RWD: $43,990 (from $46,990, a 6.4% drop)
• Model 3 P: $53,990 ($62,990, 14.2% drop)
• Model Y Long Range: $52,990 (from $65,990, a 20%
drop)
• Model Y P: $56,990 (from $69,990, a 23% drop)

Models S and X had a large price cut as well.
 
FastEddieB said:
If anyone was on the fence, Telsa just implemented a significant price drop across the line. Enough to qualify meant models for the $7,500 federal tax credit:


BREAKING: @Tesla has reduced their car prices MASSIVELY
in the US. Changes:
• Model 3 RWD: $43,990 (from $46,990, a 6.4% drop)
• Model 3 P: $53,990 ($62,990, 14.2% drop)
• Model Y Long Range: $52,990 (from $65,990, a 20%
drop)
• Model Y P: $56,990 (from $69,990, a 23% drop)

Models S and X had a large price cut as well.
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Not enough to offset my stock losses they handed me last year. Sigh.
 
NealRomeoGolf said:
Not enough to offset my stock losses they handed me last year. Sigh.
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I think it is going to get worse. Historically Tesla stock was priced as a unicorn tech company and a meme stock.
Listen to a number of the pundits; and many have started to realize that Tesla is actually a car company now. And Tesla is facing growing competition.
Therefore, the meme status is likely fading, and Tesla over the next few years will more likely be headed to compare with other car companies.

Tim
 
One nice thing about Tesla’s is the over-the-air software updates that overall improve functionality and add or improve features.

One nice improvement was to the “Energy” screen. One can easily drive just referring to the battery % or miles remaining and not worry about anything else. But if you’re a tech nerd, or just bored, the new, enhanced screen is a feast of information.

This from about 2/3 of the way on a drive yesterday:

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The car estimates range taking into effect weather, altitude change, driving style, and so forth. I drive pretty conservatively on the twisty mountain roads that comprise most of this 85 mile drive, and it’s pretty cool how the actual energy used tracks the car’s estimate.
 
tspear said:
I think it is going to get worse. Historically Tesla stock was priced as a unicorn tech company and a meme stock.
Listen to a number of the pundits; and many have started to realize that Tesla is actually a car company now. And Tesla is facing growing competition.
Therefore, the meme status is likely fading, and Tesla over the next few years will more likely be headed to compare with other car companies.

Tim
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Exactly. I look at Tesla and contemplate "What long term (sustainable) competitive advantage does Tesla have over Ford, Toyota, Honda, Nissan, whoever?"

I can't come up with one.
 
kyleb said:
Exactly. I look at Tesla and contemplate "What long term (sustainable) competitive advantage does Tesla have over Ford, Toyota, Honda, Nissan, whoever?"

I can't come up with one.
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Existing Megafactories all around the world efficiently stamping out multiple thousands of vehicles per week? All with the latest automation technology? Existing battery manufacturing technology and having raw material sources locked in? The super-reliable Supercharger network? Stipulated these are all as of now. Long term depends on their vision going forward, but the other manufacturers have a lot of catching up to do.
 
FastEddieB said:
Existing Megafactories all around the world efficiently stamping out multiple thousands of vehicles per week? All with the latest automation technology? Existing battery manufacturing technology and having raw material sources locked in? The super-reliable Supercharger network? Stipulated these are all as of now. Long term depends on their vision going forward, but the other manufacturers have a lot of catching up to do.
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Most every other car maker can efficiently stamp out more cars than Tesla, so I'd probably not consider that as an advantage. Same goes with the automation tech.

Raw materials may be an advantage, but probably not long term. Supercharger network will probably be matched by 3rd party charging stations in the next 5-7years, once they've managed to agree on a more standard charging model.

I think Tesla is at their peak in terms of market advantage, but within 10 years will be no different than others unless they have some major tricks up their sleeve.
 
Multiple reasons for the price drop. One things for sure, if I would’ve just waited a year I would have saved $$$ on a used S.

 
FastEddieB said:
Existing Megafactories all around the world efficiently stamping out multiple thousands of vehicles per week? All with the latest automation technology? Existing battery manufacturing technology and having raw material sources locked in? The super-reliable Supercharger network? Stipulated these are all as of now. Long term depends on their vision going forward, but the other manufacturers have a lot of catching up to do.
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Automation? You are kidding right? Automation is normally associated with predictable results. Look at the reviews of people reviewing/commenting on why they have rejected new cars; or required certain fixes. If Tesla really had the automation solved; you would not see nearly the number of comments which continue today.

Mega-factories? Compare the number of factories other companies have in comparison to Tesla. In terms of the car manufacturing, this is nothing new. The only current advantage Tesla has is the gigafactory for the battery production. No one can currently match Tesla for this one aspect. However; Ford, GM, VM, and Kia/Hyundai have all announced battery factory deals or investments; with new factories coming online within a couple years (most PR have stated 2024 or 2025). That is not a very long timeline to "reap" the battery production advantage.

The Supercharger network is the only real advantage; and this will likely exist as an advantage for anywhere for the next five to ten years (or potentially longer).

Tim
 
As far as Tesla’s competitive advantage, we’ll just have to see.

For those who may still be doubting the EV future, the video below is a showcase of how many new models are coming in the next few years from a wide variety of new and old manufacturers:

 
Velocity173 said:
Hit one year ownership with the Model S today. 14,000 miles of driving.

View attachment 114119 View attachment 114120
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Nice! I was running the numbers for my not efficient SUV. On premium gas, that same distance would be around $3500. I joined the electric club, Volvo, not Tesla, and the Chicago weather has been uninspiring on efficiency - around 4.5 KwHr/100 miles. Did the math and with my electric rates it was still better than half the cost of my SUV per mile.
 
I searched the thread and couldn't find where any Tesla owners opined on the ride quality. I currently drive an Acura TLX and it's the most comfortable ride I've ever owned. Before this I had mainly owned budget cars like Civics and entry level Camrys. Any comparison on ride comfort for the Tesla?
 
NealRomeoGolf said:
I searched the thread and couldn't find where any Tesla owners opined on the ride quality. I currently drive an Acura TLX and it's the most comfortable ride I've ever owned. Before this I had mainly owned budget cars like Civics and entry level Camrys. Any comparison on ride comfort for the Tesla?
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We've owned a Model Y for two years, and been very happy with the ride quality.
 
NealRomeoGolf said:
I searched the thread and couldn't find where any Tesla owners opined on the ride quality.
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It varies between different models and the choice of wheel and tire, just like any car. The most expensive models, Model S and Model X, have adjustable suspensions that can vary the ride quality for either comfort or performance.

I'm only driven the Model 3. It's not an overly soft ride but it's not uncomfortable. It feels to me that it is designed to provide good feedback to the driver and good handling. I have the 18" wheels. The larger wheels produce a stiffer ride.

I think ride quality is pretty subjective. Probably best to give one a try and see what you think.
 
NealRomeoGolf said:
I searched the thread and couldn't find where any Tesla owners opined on the ride quality. I currently drive an Acura TLX and it's the most comfortable ride I've ever owned. Before this I had mainly owned budget cars like Civics and entry level Camrys. Any comparison on ride comfort for the Tesla?
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Exactly what @Larry in TN stated above. I have an S and have driven a couple of 3s. Overall great driving vehicles but so many variables. I test drove an S with 18” wheels and it drove better than my 21” wheels. Mine’s a bit rough but the air suspension helps. I have the first Gen seats that were well known for being uncomfortable but I really don’t have an issue with them. Some cars have substantial road / wind noise while others don’t. Some are so picky about road noise, they buy foam filled tires designed for EVs. Some owners have bought after market wind noise reduction kits. Guy (Tesla tech) who came to work on mine the other day said he’s done a lot of noise quieting work on the S. There’s a few YT vids that highlight suspension knocking / creaking noises but generally easy fixes. For instance, I changed out both sway bar links because of knocking…common issue with the S.

Overall though, acceleration is outstanding and can’t complain about its cornering ability. For a 4,600 lb vehicle, the air suspension meets the task.
 
NealRomeoGolf said:
I searched the thread and couldn't find where any Tesla owners opined on the ride quality. I currently drive an Acura TLX and it's the most comfortable ride I've ever owned. Before this I had mainly owned budget cars like Civics and entry level Camrys. Any comparison on ride comfort for the Tesla?
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Previous cars were a mid-90's Camry, Ford Explorer, and the small Cadillac SUV.

my 2019 M3 has one of the best rides ever.

I did DFW to Charlotte and back in late October early November and it was very smooth.

The only thing I wish it had was some form of Active Noice Cancelling for the tire noise on the various highway surfaces. The tech exists and is proven, and not expensive. Sorta surprised it hasn't been included.
 
Something new that has crept into the recent OTA updates.....

Tesla owners that have an Apple Watch can now pair the Watch to their car as a "set of keys".

This video shows off the features of Watch for Tesla. The pairing of your Watch is closer to the end of the video.

 
Nothing like combining the iSmug crowd with the Teslarati. It's like they're trying to create some sort of SuperDouche class of citizens! (I kid, I kid . . . Mostly)
 
SoonerAviator said:
Nothing like combining the iSmug crowd with the Teslarati. It's like they're trying to create some sort of SuperDouche class of citizens! (I kid, I kid . . . Mostly)
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You’re just invious…
 
NealRomeoGolf said:
I searched the thread and couldn't find where any Tesla owners opined on the ride quality…Any comparison on ride comfort for the Tesla?
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Ours is a Model 3 with 18” wheels, still on stock tires at 26,000 miles, and not the “Performance” model.

I find the handling to be ideal. It feels sporty, firm and “planted”. It corners quite well with minimal body lean. Neither of us drive aggressively, so I can’t say much about how it might handle at its limits compared to the “Performance” model. Owners seem to agree that ride harshness increases with increased wheel/tire size. I suppose even with the 18” wheels it suffers a tiny bit in “ride comfort”, in that you do feel road irregularities and bumps more than in more luxurious cars, but I think it’s a fair trade off.

That said, we’ve done lots of highway miles on long trips and find the overall experience quite relaxing. We wish the road noise was damped a little better - on asphalt it can be whisper quiet but on macadam-like concrete it is rather noisy. Other than that, no complaints at all.
 
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