Tesla Model 3 - Finally.

[Salty]

Still trying to figure things out, but man it’s pretty darn fun to drive. Contrary to many peoples opinions about the growl of a sports car, getting pressed back in my seat so smoothly and quietly just puts a smile on my face. It’s fairly well balanced. Kinda reminds me of a 944 back in the day in terms of balance, feels like it’s on rails, but definitely heavier, and about a zillion times more grunt.

I played with the FSD a little, and it did ok even in twisty roads with bad lines, but it’s more fun to steer yourself on those roads. FSD works much better on limited access roads, but I only just figured it out, didn’t use it much yet.

 

[Salty]

Ok, now for the bad stuff.

I really enjoyed the first part of the purchase experience. It was simple, comfortable, and pleasant. All the way up to actually showing up for the delivery where things went downhill quickly. I think the staff has taken the "touchless delivery" a bit too far and have taken that to mean service-less delivery.

1. Nothing told us how to get into the car the first time and getting someone to help was impossible. After we walked around trying to get someone to help for 15 or 20 minutes, the guy next to us taking delivery on his car told us what to do
2. There was no pen to sign the documents
3. A few documents indicated where signatures were required, but many had nothing, but actually needed to be signed
4. A few of the documents were internal and not even relevant to the buyer - but you had to read them to figure that out

Other criticisms

1. I haven't driven on limited access roads much yet, so it might be better there, but FSD is a complete waste of money in my neighborhood (cow pastures and swamps). Even the simple speed control doesn't work that great on these roads IMO. Some of them are limited access, but not interstate.
2. The paint is good, but for the price of this vehicle I'm disappointed. There are no major flaws, but I think my Toyota's paint job was better quality. And frankly, I'm about as un-picky about paint as you can get. I think someone that cares more would be disgusted by it.
3. Again, at least at home in my driveway summon is "neat to play with" but completely useless in real life. Maybe in a parking lot with crisp lines it would work, but I was disappointed that even after lining it up perfectly, I couldn't use summon to back the car into or out of my garage because it's too narrow. I was hoping to use that feature because it is a tight fit and I would have liked to be able to get in and out while outside, but the car just stops 2 feet from the opening and refuses to move further. When I tried to have it move to a location across my very large driveway (car driveway and hangar driveway are connected together) the thing went out into the street and started to drive away. I have no idea what it was trying to do, but it was moving away from the target destination out on the street (which it had no reason to go on in the first place) and picking up speed when I aborted it.

So far, I'm regretting paying the extra for FSD. It isn't even a Beta yet IMO, it's a complete research project.

I still love the car by the way. Just putting things into perspective. My only regret is paying more for FSD, and maybe when I start commuting with it into town it'll prove useful.

 

[Velocity173]

Ok, now for the bad stuff.

I really enjoyed the first part of the purchase experience. It was simple, comfortable, and pleasant. All the way up to actually showing up for the delivery where things went downhill quickly. I think the staff has taken the "touchless delivery" a bit too far and have taken that to mean service-less delivery.

1. Nothing told us how to get into the car the first time and getting someone to help was impossible. After we walked around trying to get someone to help for 15 or 20 minutes, the guy next to us taking delivery on his car told us what to do
2. There was no pen to sign the documents
3. A few documents indicated where signatures were required, but many had nothing, but actually needed to be signed
4. A few of the documents were internal and not even relevant to the buyer - but you had to read them to figure that out

Other criticisms

1. I haven't driven on limited access roads much yet, so it might be better there, but FSD is a complete waste of money in my neighborhood (cow pastures and swamps). Even the simple speed control doesn't work that great on these roads IMO. Some of them are limited access, but not interstate.
2. The paint is good, but for the price of this vehicle I'm disappointed. There are no major flaws, but I think my Toyota's paint job was better quality. And frankly, I'm about as un-picky about paint as you can get. I think someone that cares more would be disgusted by it.
3. Again, at least at home in my driveway summon is "neat to play with" but completely useless in real life. Maybe in a parking lot with crisp lines it would work, but I was disappointed that even after lining it up perfectly, I couldn't use summon to back the car into or out of my garage because it's too narrow. I was hoping to use that feature because it is a tight fit and I would have liked to be able to get in and out while outside, but the car just stops 2 feet from the opening and refuses to move further. When I tried to have it move to a location across my very large driveway (car driveway and hangar driveway are connected together) the thing went out into the street and started to drive away. I have no idea what it was trying to do, but it was moving away from the target destination out on the street (which it had no reason to go on in the first place) and picking up speed when I aborted it.

So far, I'm regretting paying the extra for FSD. It isn't even a Beta yet IMO, it's a complete research project.

I still love the car by the way. Just putting things into perspective. My only regret is paying more for FSD, and maybe when I start commuting with it into town it'll prove useful.

Teslas have always been plagued with paint issues. Some say it’s too thin. It doesn’t stand up to chips. Northern climates (salt) they corrode easily. Etc, etc. Teslas really accel (no pun) in some areas while others (service) are lacking. Overall though, they’re cool cars.

 

[Salty]

Teslas have always been plagued with paint issues. Some say it’s too thin. It doesn’t stand up to chips. Northern climates (salt) they corrode easily. Etc, etc. Teslas really accel (no pun) in some areas while others (service) are lacking. Overall though, they’re cool cars.

I think it’s too thin. Here’s the reflection of the open garage door off the hood.



The metal garage door is not wavey, the paint is.

 

[Velocity173]

I think it’s too thin. Here’s the reflection of the open garage door off the hood.

View attachment 105773

The metal garage door is not wavey, the paint is.

Probably is too thin. Looks better than my Model S though. But fit and finish was never a strong suit for Model Ss either.

 

[Zeldman]

the thing went out into the street and started to drive away. I have no idea what it was trying to do, but it was moving away from the target destination out on the street (which it had no reason to go on in the first place) and picking up speed

I am trying to imagine the phone call to 911....

Salty: ''My car just drove away... it pulled out of the driveway and is speeding down the street.!!

911: ''Do you know who took it.??''

Salty: ''No one took it, it just drove away by itself.... ya gotta come chase it down and bring it back..!!''

911: (In an Irish accent) It's ok pops.... just set the bottle down and we will send the boys in white coats out to help you. They will take you to a place where you can get plenty of rest....''

 

[Larry in TN]

Salty: ''My car just drove away... it pulled out of the driveway and is speeding down the street.!!

Soon we'll have a country music song where the singer's girl AND EV pickup truck both leave him!

 

[wayne]

Not a Tesla, but an EV. I picked up a Kia EV6 GT-Line RWD yesterday. Flew up to Virginia to get one at MSRP. Lots of "market adjustments" by dealers. I figured it was somewhere around $8-10k less than buying it in Atlanta, or many other locations for that matter. A $400 airline ticket and $24 in DC Fast charge fees was a better deal.

 

[Salty]

Not a Tesla, but an EV. I picked up a Kia EV6 GT-Line RWD yesterday. Flew up to Virginia to get one at MSRP. Lots of "market adjustments" by dealers. I figured it was somewhere around $8-10k less than buying it in Atlanta, or many other locations for that matter. A $400 airline ticket and $24 in DC Fast charge fees was a better deal.

View attachment 105801

View attachment 105802

Nice!

 

[Salty]

So, apparently I'm still very ignorant about this stuff. I ordered a wall connector, but now I'm wondering why I even need it because, it seems if I have a 10-30 NEMA plug in my garage, which I do, I can use the mobile connector that came with the car. But beyond that, why pay $500 for a wall connector if you can just install a 220 outlet and use the mobile connector?

 

[Cluemeister]

The Tesla charger has a few advantages, one of them being if you get a second Tesla. Both cars can charge off the same 50 amps, as the chargers will switch automagically when the first car is full. But beyond that, I think you're fine with a 220 outlet as long as the charge rate is fast enough for you.

 

[wayne]

So, apparently I'm still very ignorant about this stuff. I ordered a wall connector, but now I'm wondering why I even need it because, it seems if I have a 10-30 NEMA plug in my garage, which I do, I can use the mobile connector that came with the car. But beyond that, why pay $500 for a wall connector if you can just install a 220 outlet and use the mobile connector?

Depends upon your car. My Kia EV6 has no built in EVSE, not even for 110 v. I need to have something with a J-1772 plug on it; 110v or 220v. I bought a ChargePoint charger and put it on a circuit with a 50 amp breaker; which can run continuous at 40 amps. It charged up last night in 9:24 (187 miles).

It also depends upon your driving. How much do you drive a day, how often do you head out for a long drive. For me, this is overkill. Sure, I needed a lot last night, but that was an oddball situation and the car is still just sitting there. It could still be charging. Even when I was commuting daily that was maybe 30 miles round trip.

Our oldest daughter has an old Nissan Leaf she got from her father. It had a small battery that has worn down over time. She says it has around 60 miles of range full. She charges it with a 110 v line.

It would take days to charge mine up on a 110v line; and I'd need a 110v EVSE. I wanted to be able to charge it up quicker than that.

 

[Velocity173]

Not a Tesla, but an EV. I picked up a Kia EV6 GT-Line RWD yesterday. Flew up to Virginia to get one at MSRP. Lots of "market adjustments" by dealers. I figured it was somewhere around $8-10k less than buying it in Atlanta, or many other locations for that matter. A $400 airline ticket and $24 in DC Fast charge fees was a better deal.

View attachment 105801

View attachment 105802

Congrats. I prefer the styling of the EV6 a little more over the ioniq 5. Heard something about a recall on the heater with the EV6. Hopefully that’s been resolved with yours.

 

[Larry in TN]

Not a Tesla, but an EV. I picked up a Kia EV6 GT-Line RWD yesterday.

I have not seen one in person but the YouTube videos I've watched indicated that it's a strong competitor in the EV market. Kia is doing a really good job with their EV line.

I saw a red Mach-E yesterday and thought it looked great! Much better in person than in videos.

Both Ford and Kia have somewhat more conventional interior designs (more physical controls) than Tesla which is exactly what a lot EV buyers are going to want.

Out of Spec Reviews just posted a video on their 70-mph range test on a 2022 Kia EV6 AWD. Kyle is enthusiastic about the car and he's driven just about every EV out there.

I ordered a wall connector, but now I'm wondering why I even need it because, it seems if I have a 10-30 NEMA plug in my garage, which I do, I can use the mobile connector that came with the car. But beyond that, why pay $500 for a wall connector if you can just install a 220 outlet and use the mobile connector?

I think I've talked about this several times in this thread, so, excuse me if I'm repeating myself.

The 10-30 (240v 30A) UMC adapter costs $45 from Tesla. Charge rate on a Model 3 is about 22mph at a charging current of 24A (80% of 30A). That is a little less than the UMC's maximum charge current of 32A on a 40A, or greater, circuit. That charges my Model 3 at about 34mph.

The Tesla Wall Connector can charge at up to 48A on a 60A circuit (supported on all current Teslas except the Model 3 RWD/SR+ which maxes out at 32A). You'd likely need new wiring to upgrade your 10-30 receptacle to a 60A circuit unless they over-gauged the wires.

In my view, the benefits of the Wall Connectors are that it looks really nice, can handle the load-sharing when multiple Wall Connectors are installed on a single circuit, and seem to be the better choice when the charging station is being mounted outdoors as you don't have and outlet to protect from the elements and aren't leaving your UMC outdoors. The somewhat faster charging is unlikely to make any difference to most drivers.

I initially considered ordering a second UMC (~$320) so that one could stay on my garage wall while the other stayed in the car. That's unnecessary, IMO. I'll throw it in my truck for road trips, though I likely won't need it, but you certainly don't need to carry it with you on your daily driving.

I don't know if you're still in a situation where you can return the Wall Connector, or resell it for a significant percentage of it's original price, but I think you'd be just fine using the UMC with your 10-30 receptacle and keeping nearly $500 in your back pocket.

 

[Salty]

thanks, that was very helpful in confirming what I was finally figuring out.

I have not seen one in person but the YouTube videos I've watched indicated that it's a strong competitor in the EV market. Kia is doing a really good job with their EV line.

I saw a red Mach-E yesterday and thought it looked great! Much better in person than in videos.

Both Ford and Kia have somewhat more conventional interior designs (more physical controls) than Tesla which is exactly what a lot EV buyers are going to want.

Out of Spec Reviews just posted a video on their 70-mph range test on a 2022 Kia EV6 AWD. Kyle is enthusiastic about the car and he's driven just about every EV out there.

I think I've talked about this several times in this thread, so, excuse me if I'm repeating myself.

The 10-30 (240v 30A) UMC adapter costs $45 from Tesla. Charge rate on a Model 3 is about 22mph at a charging current of 24A (80% of 30A). That is a little less than the UMC's maximum charge current of 32A on a 40A, or greater, circuit. That charges my Model 3 at about 34mph.

The Tesla Wall Connector can charge at up to 48A on a 60A circuit (supported on all current Teslas except the Model 3 RWD/SR+ which maxes out at 32A). You'd likely need new wiring to upgrade your 10-30 receptacle to a 60A circuit unless they over-gauged the wires.

In my view, the benefits of the Wall Connectors are that it looks really nice, can handle the load-sharing when multiple Wall Connectors are installed on a single circuit, and seem to be the better choice when the charging station is being mounted outdoors as you don't have and outlet to protect from the elements and aren't leaving your UMC outdoors. The somewhat faster charging is unlikely to make any difference to most drivers.

I initially considered ordering a second UMC (~$320) so that one could stay on my garage wall while the other stayed in the car. That's unnecessary, IMO. I'll throw it in my truck for road trips, though I likely won't need it, but you certainly don't need to carry it with you on your daily driving.

I don't know if you're still in a situation where you can return the Wall Connector, or resell it for a significant percentage of it's original price, but I think you'd be just fine using the UMC with your 10-30 receptacle and keeping nearly $500 in your back pocket.

I'm still thrashing in the decision process. Here are the random facts that are a factor

• Without the wall connector I'd be sharing the dryer plug, I know there are solutions to make dual use easier (like this) and don't worry, I know enough to not use this, but the wife might find that unpleasant after awhile.
• 90% of the time, I don't even need the 220 24A, the 110 12A I'm getting now is enough. It would only be for edge cases that I would even need more
• My house breaker panel is way overcrowded. The guy that built the house really went overboard and put sockets everywhere, which is nice, but there's something like 700 amps of breakers in there. In reality, we would never use even 200 amps, but I'm still dubious about adding any more circuits.
• My hangar is not attached, but it's only 10 feet away from the house. It has it's own meter and it's own breaker panel, which is practically empty. There's a 30 amp breaker for the hydraulic door, and I think a 20 amp breaker for the air compressor, and a few more 15A for sockets and lights, etc and that's it. I could much more safely add a charger or three to this panel
• I don't really want to park the car in the hangar all the time, but I also don't really want to park it in a different place depending on what kind of charge I need. The garage spot the car is in is literally 12 feet from the breaker panel in the hangar
• I agree 24A is likely to be plenty for me so there's really no need to install the wall connector to get more
• The wife may decide she likes the EV so we may end up with two, though right now she says no way

I really like the idea of burying a line from the hangar to the garage, but I'm thinking that's probably not legal, and even though it's close proximity, it sounds like a real nightmare.

 

[Salty]

Hmmm. I could probably mount the wall connector to the outside of the hangar and drag the cord into the garage. I don't really like that idea either... probably won't quite reach too.

 

[Larry in TN]

My house breaker panel is way overcrowded. The guy that built the house really went overboard and put sockets everywhere, which is nice, but there's something like 700 amps of breakers in there. In reality, we would never use even 200 amps, but I'm still dubious about adding any more circuits.

That's normal. There's no expectation that all circuits will run at capacity at the same time.

My 200A service has a main panel with just the two HVAC units, my charging outlet, and a surge suppressor in addition to the 90/90 feed to the sub-panel that has all my other household loads. If you total up all the breakers in my sub-panel they come to over 600A off that 180A feed.

A sticker on your panel should tell you the maximum number of breakers and maximum number of circuits that it can have. Your panel may be "full" but you're probably not at your maximum number of circuits. You add more by converting full-height breakers into half-height ones. Google the brand panel you have to find out how those maximums are notated.

I'm confident that your house's panel has the capability to drive an additional 50A circuit to provide a 6-50 or 14-50 receptacle for charging as it sounds like you have 200A service. That's the best solution. (The 6-50 is just like the 14-50 but doesn't have the neutral pin which your UMC doesn't need. Might save a few dollars on the install as you can use smaller conduit and one fewer conductors)

 

[Larry in TN]

Here's my charging "station". I paid a little more to have the metal conduit because I think it looks more professional than plastic.

 

[tspear]

@Salty

You can check the local building codes; that should be all you need to run power from the hangar to the garage. Most require the cable to be protected and to be buried about 4ft to 6ft under ground.
As for your existing panel, even if maxed out, you can add a sub-panel. I have one right next to my main panel. We added it when finishing the basement. My dad has multiple sub-panels in his house. This is not a big deal, but can be expensive due to the amount of work the electrician may need to do. For example, for my house, it took the electrician two days to install the sub panel including moving enough circuits to the sub panel to make room on the main panel for the connection.

Tim

 

[flyingcheesehead]

Ok, now for the bad stuff.

I really enjoyed the first part of the purchase experience. It was simple, comfortable, and pleasant. All the way up to actually showing up for the delivery where things went downhill quickly.

Well, you beat me. The seemingly continuous changes to the delivery date were really aggravating... But the car is so nice I quickly forgot about them.

I think the staff has taken the "touchless delivery" a bit too far and have taken that to mean service-less delivery.

1. Nothing told us how to get into the car the first time and getting someone to help was impossible. After we walked around trying to get someone to help for 15 or 20 minutes, the guy next to us taking delivery on his car told us what to do
2. There was no pen to sign the documents
3. A few documents indicated where signatures were required, but many had nothing, but actually needed to be signed
4. A few of the documents were internal and not even relevant to the buyer - but you had to read them to figure that out

Interesting... There were a few staff members floating around and being very helpful when I picked mine up, even though I didn't really need any help. Also, when I picked mine up, the directions for delivery, including how to get in via the mobile app upon arrival, were given to me via the web site a day or two before pickup.

So far, I'm regretting paying the extra for FSD. It isn't even a Beta yet IMO, it's a complete research project.

So, what you have is not even close to the latest greatest... You essentially have the Tesla Vision version of Autopilot, plus a few extra features like Summon and Navigate On Autopilot that I don't get access to.

The FSD Beta, you have to opt in for. There should be a button somewhere in the settings (sorry I can't tell you where, I didn't buy FSD but Google should know...) where you opt in to the beta. Then, you have to drive super duper conservatively for a few days and get a Safety Score (which won't appear until after you've hit the opt-in button) of either 99 or 100, and then you should be granted access to the beta after a software release or two, probably a couple of weeks. THEN you're using the "real" FSD.

Again, I don't have it myself, but I do know a guy in the beta program who has been singing its praises since a release maybe a month ago. He's got a drive to work that's 50+ miles mostly on country 2-lane roads and he said it was flawless, not a single disengagement.

So it's coming. Slowly. I hope in the long term you don't regret buying FSD, but I will say I don't regret NOT buying it. Autopilot alone has improved my life significantly.

So, apparently I'm still very ignorant about this stuff. I ordered a wall connector, but now I'm wondering why I even need it because, it seems if I have a 10-30 NEMA plug in my garage, which I do, I can use the mobile connector that came with the car. But beyond that, why pay $500 for a wall connector if you can just install a 220 outlet and use the mobile connector?

As mentioned, if you end up with two wall connectors, they can share a single circuit and load balance between them. They can charge faster than the mobile connector. Personally, I leave my mobile connector in my trunk and use my 40A J1772 with the J1772 adapter for my daily charging. I have this silly idea that I might need to charge somewhere without a Tesla charger and I'm going to want my mobile connector, but in reality I have not used it a single time, even though I did buy the NEMA 14-50 plug for it so I could plug it in in my garage and still get the max charging rate my Model 3 SR+ can take.

Depends upon your car. My Kia EV6 has no built in EVSE, not even for 110 v. I need to have something with a J-1772 plug on it; 110v or 220v.

So, this may seem pedantic, but... NO car has a built in EVSE. The EVSE (Electric Vehicle Service Equipment) is the part outside the car, the charger is built in to the car. And you do have an onboard charger, I promise.

I'm surprised they don't include a portable 120V EVSE with it somewhere, I've never seen an EV that didn't... But in reality, unless they're using one that's actually 240V capable (which they often do if the electronics are used worldwide and they just change the plug), it's pretty pointless. 120V charging is very slow and not something you'll generally use out on the road with a BEV since it can take a full day or more for a complete charge at that rate... And I'm guessing they probably figure you'd rather spend $400-$500 for a faster EVSE and it's kind of pointless for them to have something that costs $200 that sits in your trunk forever. I literally NEVER used the included EVSEs that came with the i3 or the Bolt.

 

[Salty]

Interesting... There were a few staff members floating around and being very helpful when I picked mine up, even though I didn't really need any help. Also, when I picked mine up, the directions for delivery, including how to get in via the mobile app upon arrival, were given to me via the web site a day or two before pickup.

We used Tesla financing (they matched the financing I'd already lined up, so I went with them) and traded in a vehicle (they gave me more for it than I paid 3 years ago). Because of this our instructions ended with "find a rep", which after 15 minutes we finally found one that wasn't already occupied. He checked a few things and sent us to the car to sign the docs inside and promptly disappeared without telling us how to get into the car. Another 5 minutes of searching around for someone and the guy next to us helped us get in.

So, what you have is not even close to the latest greatest... You essentially have the Tesla Vision version of Autopilot, plus a few extra features like Summon and Navigate On Autopilot that I don't get access to.

The FSD Beta, you have to opt in for. There should be a button somewhere in the settings (sorry I can't tell you where, I didn't buy FSD but Google should know...) where you opt in to the beta. Then, you have to drive super duper conservatively for a few days and get a Safety Score (which won't appear until after you've hit the opt-in button) of either 99 or 100, and then you should be granted access to the beta after a software release or two, probably a couple of weeks. THEN you're using the "real" FSD.

Again, I don't have it myself, but I do know a guy in the beta program who has been singing its praises since a release maybe a month ago. He's got a drive to work that's 50+ miles mostly on country 2-lane roads and he said it was flawless, not a single disengagement.

So it's coming. Slowly. I hope in the long term you don't regret buying FSD, but I will say I don't regret NOT buying it. Autopilot alone has improved my life significantly.

I'm already in the beta. I think. I'm a bit confused if I'm in it or just in the queue for it.

 

[FastEddieB]

Here's my charging "station". I paid a little more to have the metal conduit because I think it looks more professional than plastic.

View attachment 105808

Our current setup is similar, but kind of unique. I just piggybacked a second L14-30 locking receptacle off an existing one I use for our hangar door.

It’s wired in parallel using the same 30A breaker. Certainly not kosher, but all Karen and I have to do is to remember not to open/close the hangar door while charging. Simple enough, just momentarily unplug the car’s EVSE plug while operating the door. Has worked fine so far. And the 24 miles per hour we get charging is usually more than enough to get a full charge* overnight.

Coincidentally, today was the first time we used our generator “in anger” to open our hangar door.

Storms knocked out our power overnight and it didn’t get restored until late this afternoon. So it was very handy to get the hangar open, since we had put the Tesla in it knowing storms were coming.


* For local driving, we typically set a full charge at 70%. Tesla recommends no more than 80% to 90% routinely. That 70% results in about 250 miles of range, and it’s very rare for use to even drive 100 locally on a daily basis.

 

[Salty]

Just curious, can you use a generator like that to charge the tesla in a pinch?

 

[FastEddieB]

Just curious, can you use a generator like that to charge the tesla in a pinch?

Should be able to - it can provide 240v @ 30A, good for 20-24 mph. But I’ve been warned to make sure the output is “clean” enough, and I’m not exactly sure how to check that.

 

[Rich Holt]

I saw one of these bad boys at a local charging station. It looks much better in person.

 

[NoHeat]

The door handles for that VW are peculiar.

Does it have suicide doors?

 

[tspear]

Should be able to - it can provide 240v @ 30A, good for 20-24 mph. But I’ve been warned to make sure the output is “clean” enough, and I’m not exactly sure how to check that.

Easiest solution is to ask an electrician to measure it; there are also some meters you can order online which will measure the power circuit.
However, even that might not work very well.
The reason is a major source of dirty power is the conversion of AC to DC. So if the genset is providing AC power, and the car then converts it to DC you might end up in a dirty power situation. And the more dirty the power, the lower the efficiency on the power conversion.
If you really want to charge the car from a genset, get one with a clean sine wave. There used to be online reviews of the models with the cleanest output. Next, you will want to have the genset only have the car plugged in. The reality is the genset does not have the spinning reserve or management tools to handle varying loads and keep the power clean. Lastly, if you are still bold enough to try, bring up the power slowly and closely watch the car.

If you still want to charge at home without grid power, a safer choice would be to get a power bank to charge the car, and use the genset to charge the power bank.

The general consensus I have come too, take the EV to a charging station before the battery runs down and skip the hassle at home when you lose grid power.

Note: all this knowledge is worth exactly what you paid for it, and is based on discussions with electrical engineers, power company guys and a few EV car owners.

Tim

 

[Ryan F.]

How'd I miss this thread?

I've enjoyed my Model 3 since September of last year. Overall, I've enjoyed the experience, but it's not without warts.

I scanned the thread. Didn't read all of the comments but here are some takeaways I have after about a half-year of ownership and some interesting use cases.

- FSD is a waste of money. I subscribed to the monthly service to try it. After the novelty factor wore off, I canceled it. I use the car for a long work commute (about a 2.5 hour drive) and I've probably put a solid thousand miles in on FSD. Actually, FSD is one of the major negatives of the Tesla experience in my view, simply because this is such a buggy and counterproductive "feature" for the price that it's more of a blemish on the brand than a plus. I say that knowing it's under development and theoretically getting better, but as a $10k option it was absurdly overpriced when I purchased my Model 3, and now it's $12k. FSD is unlikely to be what you want driving you on highway interchanges or merging into traffic, changing lanes, etc. I tended to just intervene and "drive normally." However, the basic autopilot is very good and functional for longer drives.

- The FSD Beta is downright dangerous and a borderline frightening experience. I didn't drive it personally but I have a "Tesla friend" who has and I've watched a few of the FSD videos. This product is nowhere near ready for prime time and will kill a user who isn't actively engaged and literally ready to take over at a second's notice.

- One last thing on FSD. I find the current "non-beta" FSD to be stressful also. I intervened so many times and have been so perplexed by its unusual behavior that I really didn't enjoy many of its "advanced" features other than auto lane change, which is also a bit buggy -- the car will want to change lanes far more often than you'd like, but I do like how it integrates with "Navigate on Autopilot" for basic highway interchanges with minimal traffic in the middle of the night (my usual time to do my long commute.)

- Tesla can be irritating to deal with on service issues. Shortly after I purchased my Model 3 a large crack began to form in the roof glass. There is no way to talk to the service center, you can only fill out a form on the app to request service. After one or two days I was informed via automated message that the earliest appointment was 4 weeks out. I could select one date for the entire month, so I took it. Then I was informed my anticipated bill was $1300 and that I had to agree to this estimate in order to make the appointment. I felt this was a warranty issue but there was no way to speak to a person to talk through the issue. They ended up covering it under warranty when I brought it in for service but it was stressful and I didn't feel well treated as a customer.

- The advantage to spending the extra bucks on the Tesla Wall Connector is if you routinely use your mobile charger at other locations -- which I realize not everyone does, but I do (I charge at the hangar at work.) In that case, you're not going to want to pack up your mobile charger every time you leave the house, you're going want to leave it in your vehicle. There won't be much of a delta between the full-on Wall Connector and the 10-30 NEMA connector plus wiring the port in your garage. The convenience factor is well worth paying the extra few bucks. And, in theory, the Wall Connector will have enhanced functionality over time via OTA updates.

- Do I actually like the car? Yes... I do enjoy driving it and after a long international trip melting into the warmed-up Tesla is so comfortable and welcoming. The Basic Autopilot takes a lot of the stress out of the long commute and makes the drive feel shorter. It's quiet, the audio quality is great and the UI is outstanding. There's plenty of room for storage and while it's a bit small for four full-sized adults, you can make do.

- Would I buy another one? Maybe... I'm interested in what the market brings to bear. There's no question Tesla still makes the best portfolio of EVs at the moment, but they are a ripe target for mfgrs willing to compete on price and service.

 

[RogerThat]

Here are my early two cents on my new Tesla…
I got super lucky to find a new Model S and get in in a week. Person who ordered isn’t like the color combo (Blue with Cream interior) so I quickly put $250 down to reserve and take a look at the car. (Plus I got offered a filthy amount for my 8cyl Range Rover Sport netting $23k in my pocket)

A week into ownership I will share a few bullets:
Buying process, mainly online and text, was smooth and arguably the best car buying experience from an ease standpoint. I really hate the old school Car dealership experience.
No frills, the car sells itself and sales reps are well informed and no pressure. They answered all my questions, most of them via text. A breath of fresh air.
The car… Tesla owners have always told me the car is “fun to drive” which I found very odd to hear (while driving my RR which made the best engine gargle). Until I drove one. Wow, it is Fun to Drive!
Fun in the sense that I are always had a thing for torque and power. I got that with my truck. But I got pure power and “torque” with my Tesla. Gunning it in insane mode is so powerful I get glued to my seat and feel the car is going to fly. It is actually scary.
The interior although minimalist does the job and the seats are super comfortable.
Plenty of storage including the Frunk which my son loves and gets a kick out of.
Space is fine on the S. 4 fits well, 5 a little tight.
The tech… well the tech is just awesome and the interface well made. Not having CarPlay is not an issue as I have everything I need (XM Radio, Spotify and the google Nav) plus a bunch of other programs and games. Not to mention Netflix, Disney+, Hulu which helps when charging or to entertain the kids. I don’t know how I lived without the Fart on Demand feature my son discovered!
The one thing I was really concerned over, and frankly why I didn’t take the leap sooner, was charge and the fear of having no charge. (Next week I get my home wall charger installed) but with a little planing it hasn’t been an issue. I hit a supercharger once a week it it works. Yes I plan on being there for 30 minutes to an hour vs a 5 minute gas tank fill at the station.
My experience with service, so far, has been fine. The front doors don’t close as smoothly as the two rear doors (I did a little force to close them - not a biggie but a nuisance. A minor one give many of the QV issues with panels misaligned ) but a service request on the app, I was able to get a Mobile service come to the house next week to check it out. No anticipated cost.

All around I am happy and satisfied I went EV and went Tesla (I clawed back my Lucid deposit as I didn’t expect to get mine for at least another year bc I was late in my deposit. I did keep my Hummer EV deposit and am anxiously waiting to see real reviews. The major reason I would consider it over my Model S is simply size ad I do like being in a larger truck. That’s about it )

Would I buy another Tesla? Yes, I want my wife to get one.
Will I go back to a combustion vehicle? Since I am not a car enthusiast or a c”Car and Driver” kinda guy, I just don’t see the need or reason and am happy sticking with EVs. As they get mainstream we will see more infrastructure develop and the charge planning, especially on trips be closer to finding a close gas station today.

With a yoke, this is fun to drive!

 

[Ed Haywood]

I'm confident that your house's panel has the capability to drive an additional 50A circuit to provide a 6-50 or 14-50 receptacle for charging as it sounds like you have 200A service. That's the best solution. (The 6-50 is just like the 14-50 but doesn't have the neutral pin which your UMC doesn't need. Might save a few dollars on the install as you can use smaller conduit and one fewer conductors)

I used the NEMA 6-50. As you observe, the only difference is the lack of neutral connector. That means the 6-50 can only provide 220v current, while the NEMA 14-50 can provide 110v and 220v. Dual current is useful for RV hookups, hence 14-50 is more commonly found in DIY stores. The only other common use for 6-50 is electric welders, so they are harder to find. Having said all that, I have no plans to charge an RV, and 14-50 adapters were out of stock when I got my model 3, so I went with the 6-50. I bought an expensive industrial grade outlet because I read they tended to wear out, but I think I have unplugged my mobile charger twice in 2.5 years.

Agreed on metal conduit, much stronger so might as well use it. I installed myself at a cost of maybe $300 in materials for a 40 foot run from the breaker box. I had not done electrical work before but was pretty straight-forward once I learned the rules for code compliance. I got a permit and was quite pleased with myself when the building inspector complimented me on my work.

 

[FastEddieB]

Quick experience charging on 120v.

Yesterday we drove from our E TN home near Knoxville to our N GA home near Blue Ridge, about 90 driving miles. Having charged to 80% - about 305 miles - before leaving, we arrived with around 200 miles remaining. Rather than parking 100’ from the house to take advantage of the 14-50 receptacle on our RV pedestal, which charges at about 30 mph, we just plugged into 120 at the house, at around 5P. Here’s where we stand at about 8A:

My point is, though 120v charging seems abysmally slow at about 4+ mph, overnight charging can still bank a lot of miles, and shouldn’t be sneezed at.

 

[FastEddieB]

If you still want to charge at home without grid power, a safer choice would be to get a power bank to charge the car, and use the genset to charge the power bank.

The general consensus I have come too, take the EV to a charging station before the battery runs down and skip the hassle at home when you lose grid power.

Tim

Thanks for the detailed explanation.

At our E TN home we do have a Supercharger station nearby in Turkey Creek. I guess the only problem there might be a widespread Texas-style grid outage. In N GA we’re less lucky - the nearest Supercharger is in Chattanooga, about 56 miles. But in a real emergency there, we still have our Honda Element parked nearby at Copperhill, TN airport, if we need to bug out.

As we ponder these eventualities, best to remember that in a widespread grid outage, most gas stations won’t be able to pump gas either, so there’s that.

 

[Ryan F.]

My point is, though 120v charging seems abysmally slow at about 4+ mph, overnight charging can still bank a lot of miles, and shouldn’t be sneezed at.

I do 120V charging all the time, at work, through a basic outlet in the hangar. But since I nearly always leave for a few days at a time, the slow charging rate isn't a problem. As you point out, you can get quite a few miles of out of an overnight charging session.

I do have the occasional day trip - in which I drive to work and then have to drive home again same day. When that happens, I do a 100% charge before leaving my house, leave it plugged in at work, and the extra miles I get in the meantime are more than enough to avoid a supercharger stop on the way home.

My commute is 133 miles.

 

[RogerThat]

I decided to get a Wallbox set up at home.
My set up is a dedicated 60 amp level 2, 240v. I am also adding a load management system.

Mainly for convenience.

 

[Ed Haywood]

My point is, though 120v charging seems abysmally slow at about 4+ mph, overnight charging can still bank a lot of miles, and shouldn’t be sneezed at.

You can increase your charge rate a bit on 110v by using a 20amp outlet. In many locations, building codes require at least one 20 amp outlet in the garage. A lot of people don't realize they have one. Looks like this. Tesla sells a 20 amp plug adapter for the mobile charger. If you use that setup, the MC will sense the adapter and draw more current, getting you 7-8 mph charging.

 

[Larry in TN]

I bought an expensive industrial grade outlet because I read they tended to wear out, but I think I have unplugged my mobile charger twice in 2.5 years.

I think that's also important because of the continuous 32A current draw. The less expensive receptacles don't make as good of a connection between the wire and the receptacle, or at least they make it harder to get as good of a connection. A poor connection will generate more heat during high-draw use which will shorten the life of the device. I specified a commercial-grade receptacle with my electrician.

I installed myself at a cost of maybe $300 in materials for a 40 foot run from the breaker box.

Can you estimate how much you saved in not having the buy the extra conductor for the neutral? Is it enough to even mention?

I went 14-50 because everything I was reading at the time was about the 14-50. If I had known more about the 6-50 I might have done that just to save a little cost.

You can increase your charge rate a bit on 110v by using a 20amp outlet.

I have the 5-20 adapter ($35) in addition to the 14-50. I figured it might come in handy if staying with friends or using a 20A outlet at a restaurant or hotel on a trip. I tried it once in my garage and got 7mph which is a good increase over the 5-15 (~4mph).

I also picked up a heavy duty 20A extension cord and a 5-15 to 5-20 adapter so I can use it for either 15A or 20A charging. Once again, tested in my garage but haven't used them for real yet. Good chance I won't. Hey, I started off thinking I'd buy a second UMC and the full NEMA adapter pack to carry in the car. I ended up with a $35 adapter and $40 extension cord and adapter. LOL

www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07TBMZNXH/

www.amazon.com/gp/product/B087113J5Q/

 

[Ryan F.]

I'm confident that your house's panel has the capability to drive an additional 50A circuit to provide a 6-50 or 14-50 receptacle for charging as it sounds like you have 200A service. That's the best solution. (The 6-50 is just like the 14-50 but doesn't have the neutral pin which your UMC doesn't need. Might save a few dollars on the install as you can use smaller conduit and one fewer conductors)

Hey Larry, I know we talked about this off-line... I have 200A service and when I purchased the Model 3, I had no available 50A breakers. I had to get rid of my electric stove and replace it with natural gas to free up a 50A breaker. The electrician who installed my Tesla Wall Connector said that he commonly sees this issue with folks looking to install the unit (or even the 220V wall options) who don't have a breaker free. I was going to replace the stove with natural gas anyway, but it's one of those things that isn't always a given.

I run my Wall Connector at 40A which puts it pretty close to the NEMA outlet in terms of charging speed. But as I indicated above, I don't want to unplug and stow my mobile charger every time I leave the house, so the cost difference between a second mobile charger and the Tesla Wall Connector wasn't enough to justify going with the lesser option.

 

[Larry in TN]

I have 200A service and when I purchased the Model 3, I had no available 50A breakers.

Not sure what you mean by that. Each panel has a rating for max number of circuits and it will take a number of half-height breakers to reach that number. If you are below your max, but all slots are full, you place a couple of full-height breakers with half-height ones. If you're already at the max number of circuits then you'd need a bigger panel or need to add a sub-panel.

My house, built in 2002, had a small main panel outside by the meter. It had only three circuits; the two HVAC units and the circuit feeding the sub-panel in the garage. The sub-panel had all of the other circuits for the house. The sub-panel would have been more difficult to access so we put the NEMA 14-50 outlet on the main panel which would have completed it's four 240V circuit maximum. I also wanted to add a whole-house surge protector so I upgraded the main panel to one that can take 6 (8?) 240V circuits.

What min CB rating would you recommend with that 110V outlet? 20 AMP or go 30?

It's a 120V outlet (Level 1) or 240V (Level 2).

For EV charging, the best option is a 240V circuit which can be either a NEMA 6-50 or 14-50 receptacle. Most use the 14-50 with Teslas but the 6-50 works just as well as the Tesla UMC does not need, or use, the neutral. Both are 50A circuits.

For 120V circuit, the 5-15 (15A) and 5-20 (20A) are the options offered by Tesla. A Model 3 will charge at about 4mph and 7mph respectively.

I think there are some aftermarket 120V/30A UMC adapters available. Not sure how fast that would charge. See www.evseadapters.com

If you can, you want to to Level 2 (240V) charging at home. Level 1 is too slow for most drivers.

 

[Velocity173]

Not sure what you mean by that. Each panel has a rating for max number of circuits and it will take a number of half-height breakers to reach that number. If you are below your max, but all slots are full, you place a couple of full-height breakers with half-height ones. If you're already at the max number of circuits then you'd need a bigger panel or need to add a sub-panel.

My house, built in 2002, had a small main panel outside by the meter. It had only three circuits; the two HVAC units and the circuit feeding the sub-panel in the garage. The sub-panel had all of the other circuits for the house. The sub-panel would have been more difficult to access so we put the NEMA 14-50 outlet on the main panel which would have completed it's four 240V circuit maximum. I also wanted to add a whole-house surge protector so I upgraded the main panel to one that can take 6 (8?) 240V circuits.


It's a 120V outlet (Level 1) or 240V (Level 2).

For EV charging, the best option is a 240V circuit which can be either a NEMA 6-50 or 14-50 receptacle. Most use the 14-50 with Teslas but the 6-50 works just as well as the Tesla UMC does not need, or use, the neutral. Both are 50A circuits.

For 120V circuit, the 5-15 (15A) and 5-20 (20A) are the options offered by Tesla. A Model 3 will charge at about 4mph and 7mph respectively.

I think there are some aftermarket 120V/30A UMC adapters available. Not sure how fast that would charge. See www.evseadapters.com

If you can, you want to to Level 2 (240V) charging at home. Level 1 is too slow for most drivers.

I was thinking also, I just can’t throw a 120 v 20 amp outlet on a circuit designed for 15. I’d have to get the whole thing rewired. Might as well go with my original plan of having an electrician out and put in a 240 outlet.

 

[Ryan F.]

Not sure what you mean by that. Each panel has a rating for max number of circuits and it will take a number of half-height breakers to reach that number. If you are below your max, but all slots are full, you place a couple of full-height breakers with half-height ones. If you're already at the max number of circuits then you'd need a bigger panel or need to add a sub-panel.

My house was built in the 60s and is "interesting" from an electrical perspective. I have two subpanels in different interior rooms in the house, one main breaker on the outside of the house which was added when I did solar in 2019, and a main panel with four 50 amp breakers on it that feeds to the various sub panels and of course, my Tesla. We discussed it briefly but re-engineering the panels was not economically feasible for my house, it was going to be a 5-digit electrician bill and the house would have been down and out for about a week! I had and always will have four 50a breakers to use as I see fit, and one of them went to the stove. Luckily I was able to move that to natural gas so I could install the Wall Connector.