Taxiway closed by notam due to snow/ice

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Getonit

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The airport I am based at has closed the taxiway to the hangars, I assume due to snow and ice, maybe 2-3 inches. I am not concerned about the safety aspect of it as I have plenty of experience dealing with it, summary is go slow and plan ahead. Runway is open, tower is open. I need to go somewhere Saturday morning and I don’t need to be held up by some moronic southern airport administrator. Can I legally ignore this? I am 100% sure I can’t, but wanted to see what the brain trust here thinks.
 
Call tower on the phone.

Just guessing, but they don’t want the liability of having someone assume it’s safe or usable, so just NOTAM it closed until it can be plowed or melt.

Keeps incoming planes via preflight brief from landing and later realizing they’ll be unable to access. Or folks thinking/expecting they could leave their home drome.
 
At your own risk. And don’t be “wreckless”.
 
Why not contact the airport manager or airport maintenance if they have one and ask? You may not always know the reason why something is notamed closed. Perhaps they will plow it if they know it's needed.
 
TCABM said:
I think if this doesn’t scream hazardous attitude, it should.
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I'm not exactly arguing it shouldn't, but I'm assuming the OP is from somewhere that it's cold and snowy 5 or 6 months of the year, and driving/taxiing on 2-3" of snow and ice is just the norm during those months. Sometimes, it can be a month or two of driving on roads that you can't see the pavement because of the snow and ice packed on top and nobody thinks anything of it. I definitely think that the OP should have phrased that differently, but if it's just ice and snow, I could see why he wouldn't be that concerned about it and would be upset if that was the only reason he couldn't get his trip done.
 
Around here notam closed means no clearances will be issued. Operations at our own risk are allowed. Report on frequency to alert others but no help from tower until on/in open areas.
 
Whether you agree or not on the NOTAM if you end up having an incident or break something how would insurance view that? How would the FSDO view that???
Do they notam often for this?? 24 hours is far away for a notam like that to last if the airport is working on snow removal
 
If there’s no notam does that make a taxi accident Tower’s fault? Nope. We laugh when Tower says “at your own risk”. Whose risk was it before?
 
SkyChaser said:
I'm not exactly arguing it shouldn't, but I'm assuming the OP is from somewhere that it's cold and snowy 5 or 6 months of the year, and driving/taxiing on 2-3" of snow and ice is just the norm during those months..
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It ain’t about the rationale for the trip, it’s anti-authority…don’t tell me what to do…macho…I can do it… and possibly a shade of invulnerability…it won’t happen to me.

Lived in Colorado before and packed snow on top of trace ice is a way different surface than a trace of graupel on top of sleet on top of 1/4” sheet ice because it rained for six hours before turning into freezing rain and then froze, but it’s not my plane or certificate at stake.
 
TCABM said:
It ain’t about the rationale for the trip, it’s anti-authority…don’t tell me what to do…macho…I can do it… and possibly a shade of invulnerability…it won’t happen to me.

Lived in Colorado before and packed snow on top of trace ice is a way different surface than a trace of graupel on top of sleet on top of 1/4” sheet ice because it rained for six hours before turning into freezing rain and then froze, but it’s not my plane or certificate at stake.
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I totally agree. I wouldn't want to taxi a plane on that stuff. I've driven on it, quite a lot, and I would prefer not doing that with a plane. I guess I was just trying to give some options as to motivations. Put like the OP did, it sounds really bad. But what if he'd said, "I am planning a trip for Saturday, but the taxiway is NOTAMed closed because of ice and snow. I'm from somewhere that has those conditions all the time, and I'm used to taxiing on that surface. Am I allowed to go on the taxiway anyway, or is someone going to stop me because they don't realize that pilots taxi around in this stuff a lot?" That sounds a lot better, but basically has the same meaning.
 
benyflyguy said:
Whether you agree or not on the NOTAM if you end up having an incident or break something how would insurance view that? How would the FSDO view that???
Do they notam often for this?? 24 hours is far away for a notam like that to last if the airport is working on snow removal
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So when the papi lights are notam'd out and I land short insurance won't cover it?
 
Kinda fun to be the first one to the airport after several inches of snow as long as there are no big drifts on the runway.
 
Getonit said:
The airport I am based at has closed the taxiway to the hangars, I assume due to snow and ice, maybe 2-3 inches. I am not concerned about the safety aspect of it as I have plenty of experience dealing with it, summary is go slow and plan ahead. Runway is open, tower is open. I need to go somewhere Saturday morning and I don’t need to be held up by some moronic southern airport administrator. Can I legally ignore this? I am 100% sure I can’t, but wanted to see what the brain trust here thinks.
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The brain trust here includes a significant number of Southerners, so you probably won't put much stock in what it says, so why bother asking?
 
SkyChaser said:
I totally agree. I wouldn't want to taxi a plane on that stuff. I've driven on it, quite a lot, and I would prefer not doing that with a plane. I guess I was just trying to give some options as to motivations. Put like the OP did, it sounds really bad. But what if he'd said, "I am planning a trip for Saturday, but the taxiway is NOTAMed closed because of ice and snow. I'm from somewhere that has those conditions all the time, and I'm used to taxiing on that surface. Am I allowed to go on the taxiway anyway, or is someone going to stop me because they don't realize that pilots taxi around in this stuff a lot?" That sounds a lot better, but basically has the same meaning.
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NOTAMs don't state the reason for the closure. The pilot is assuming its because of snow and ice, or could it be the huge pothole created by an attempt to plow snow? I've had pilots tell me well I'm going to use that surface that is NOTAMed closed because it looks ok to me. What they don't see is the trench cut across that pavement, or perhaps an electrical wire draped across the pavement. Perhaps there is a bunch of FOD and gravel because some equipment was crossing the pavement. The truth is you have no idea why its closed, only that it is. Airports are required to close any surface that does not meet the required safety standards for aircraft use.
 
455 Bravo Uniform said:
Call tower on the phone.

Just guessing, but they don’t want the liability of having someone assume it’s safe or usable, so just NOTAM it closed until it can be plowed or melt.

Keeps incoming planes via preflight brief from landing and later realizing they’ll be unable to access. Or folks thinking/expecting they could leave their home drome.
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Tower is likely to know why it's closed, but they aren't the ones closing it and issuing the NOTAM. Calling the Airport Authority might get you more detailed information about why.
 
SkyChaser said:
…But what if…
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Is a fun game. OP wrote what the OP wrote and asked others what they thought about what was written.

I gave my thoughts: OP’s written words appear to convey an hazardous attitude.
 
midwestpa24 said:
NOTAMs don't state the reason for the closure. The pilot is assuming its because of snow and ice, or could it be the huge pothole created by an attempt to plow snow? I've had pilots tell me well I'm going to use that surface that is NOTAMed closed because it looks ok to me. What they don't see is the trench cut across that pavement, or perhaps an electrical wire draped across the pavement. Perhaps there is a bunch of FOD and gravel because some equipment was crossing the pavement. The truth is you have no idea why its closed, only that it is. Airports are required to close any surface that does not meet the required safety standards for aircraft use.
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That's true. I would definitely not use a surface NOTAMed closed without knowing why and if it is was still okay!

TCABM said:
Is a fun game. OP wrote what the OP wrote and asked others what they thought about what was written.

I gave my thoughts: OP’s written words appear to convey an hazardous attitude.
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And I am violently agreeing that the OP's written words appear that way. :)
 
Stewartb said:
Around here notam closed means no clearances will be issued. Operations at our own risk are allowed. Report on frequency to alert others but no help from tower until on/in open areas.
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Tower is likely to help you with information. Like after they tell you the taxiway is closed and you taxiing on it will be at your own risk, if someone else is doing it also they can, and likely will let you know so you can avoid getting into a nose to nose with the other plane.
 
All right, this is why people don't bother asking questions on the internet. I am not some cowboy moron with an anti-authority attitude, glad someone just got done reading the FOI's. I did contact the administration and miracle of miracles they responded, saying it would be reopened by close of business today but I don't know if I trust their competence quite frankly. I suspect they closed it to allow the workers to clear ice/snow, I get that need to keep planes out of the way, however did they close it to protect me from myself? That is where I take exception. What is to prevent me from taking off in zero-zero, TSTM nearby, gusty winds, etc. I don't need some government nanny who isn't even a pilot telling me what is safe and what is not. Flame away people.
 
Getonit said:
All right, this is why people don't bother asking questions on the internet. I am not some cowboy moron with an anti-authority attitude, glad someone just got done reading the FOI's. I did contact the administration and miracle of miracles they responded, saying it would be reopened by close of business today but I don't know if I trust their competence quite frankly. I suspect they closed it to allow the workers to clear ice/snow, I get that need to keep planes out of the way, however did they close it to protect me from myself? That is where I take exception. What is to prevent me from taking off in zero-zero, TSTM nearby, gusty winds, etc. I don't need some government nanny who isn't even a pilot telling me what is safe and what is not. Flame away people.
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So you are taking the word of a moron? Dude, you be the one what started all the snark with your "...some moronic southern airport administrator..." comment, in the OP no less. But you got some knowledgeable responses anyway. You should say thank you.
 
I'm a "Yankee with a U Haul", and have been in Atlanta area for 3 years now. Love the area. And we had a "winter storm warning" a few weeks back - there was snow in the air, but nothing on the ground - way too warm. So yeah, I get it.

M2C? If the airport can't plow the taxi way, they probably aren't great at snow on the ground operations of the fuel truck, emergency equipment, or anything else. Don't see this as over reaching authority - just an airport that isn't up to speed with strange white stuff.

Stay home, make other arrangements, chalk this up to weather. I wouldn't take the risk, and don't want to build a reputation around the airport of "that guy" who thumbs his nose at anything that gets in his way.

That's my POV for what its worth to you. Safe travels whatever you decide.
 
luvflyin said:
Tower is likely to help you with information. Like after they tell you the taxiway is closed and you taxiing on it will be at your own risk, if someone else is doing it also they can, and likely will let you know so you can avoid getting into a nose to nose with the other plane.
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Nose-to-nose would be no problem if you get one of those reverse-gear options installed like I saw on a Cherokee that a student pilot was backing up in a TV commercial I once saw. ;)
 
Getonit said:
All right, this is why people don't bother asking questions on the internet. I am not some cowboy moron with an anti-authority attitude, glad someone just got done reading the FOI's. I did contact the administration and miracle of miracles they responded, saying it would be reopened by close of business today but I don't know if I trust their competence quite frankly. I suspect they closed it to allow the workers to clear ice/snow, I get that need to keep planes out of the way, however did they close it to protect me from myself? That is where I take exception. What is to prevent me from taking off in zero-zero, TSTM nearby, gusty winds, etc. I don't need some government nanny who isn't even a pilot telling me what is safe and what is not. Flame away people.
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Time to put another one on ignore.
 
Palmpilot said:
Nose-to-nose would be no problem if you get one of those reverse-gear options installed like I saw on a Cherokee that a student pilot was backing up in a TV commercial I once saw. ;)
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If they tell you there is an A-10 opposite direction on the taxiway, and I couldn't turn around, I'd just taxi off the side. Ditch or no ditch.

 
Another POV - you and I know what to do with snow on the road. My new neighbors would destroy their cars just trying to get out of their drive ways. Maybe 99% of your fellow pilots would do the same, not having your back ground. Thus, the NOTOM makes sense.
 
Getonit said:
I suspect they closed it to allow the workers to clear ice/snow, I get that need to keep planes out of the way, however did they close it to protect me from myself? That is where I take exception.
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You realize the FAA regulates airports too? Airports are required to ensure the airfield is safe for aircraft to operate on, or else NOTAM the impacted surfaces closed. There is the liability if the airport does not meet safety standards and allows an aircraft to operate on it. Given your attitude, I'm sure if your airplane got damaged and you could blame someone else, you probably would.
 
I get what the OP is saying. In the south, we rarely see the wintery conditions. Most of us down here don't have the experience of operating in these conditions, so authorities make decisions to close schools, roads, etc... Since the OP apparently is originally from a part of the country that has harsh winters, he probably knows more about safe operations in snow and ice then those of us down south.
 
WDD said:
Another POV - you and I know what to do with snow on the road. My new neighbors would destroy their cars just trying to get out of their drive ways. Maybe 99% of your fellow pilots would do the same, not having your back ground. Thus, the NOTOM makes sense.
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Reminds me of an important lesson I learned in my twenties while driving across Wyoming in December. I started to slide off a highway with packed snow on it, and when I tried pushing in the clutch, I regained steering ability instantly.
 
Getonit said:
I did contact the administration and miracle of miracles they responded, saying it would be reopened by close of business today but I don't know if I trust their competence quite frankly.
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Sounds to me like you've covered yourself.

And yes, I agree it's ridiculous. In the South, things get closed because of a threat of snow or ice. It's ridiculous.
 
bflynn said:
Sounds to me like you've covered yourself.

And yes, I agree it's ridiculous. In the South, things get closed because of a threat of snow or ice. It's ridiculous.
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I have to admit that I'm kinda looking forward to that, though. In Minnesota, it could be blizzarding and maybe you'd get off work earlier so you could drive home before dark. The idea of things being closed and being able to stay home if it's supposed to be nasty outside sounds really nice, even if a little ridiculous-seeming to me. :D
 
In the south, it takes longer to dispatch the workforce and equipment needed to clear snow and ice because we rarely need it. Most of our vehicles don't have snow tires either. It pays to have patience in these conditions.
 
lsaway said:
I get what the OP is saying. In the south, we rarely see the wintery conditions. Most of us down here don't have the experience of operating in these conditions, so authorities make decisions to close schools, roads, etc... Since the OP apparently is originally from a part of the country that has harsh winters, he probably knows more about safe operations in snow and ice then those of us down south.
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@midwestpa24 , whadda you know about this? Not the schools and roads thang, but airports. Are snow country airports less likely to close taxiways and runways just because, well we're used to it up here?
 
So here is a parallel example, In Juneau after a certain time of year the float pond is closed. I know lots of folks who use it when ATIS says it's closed. Tower will permit you to use the float pond, but it's at your own risk.
 
luvflyin said:
@midwestpa24 , whadda you know about this? Not the schools and roads thang, but airports. Are snow country airports less likely to close taxiways and runways just because, well we're used to it up here?
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Its all about experience. IMO, authorities without the experience of winter operations need to proceed with more caution. Same reason a newly licensed private pilot can't fly into IMC conditions.
 
lsaway said:
In the south, it takes longer to dispatch the workforce -- which has never seen snow - and equipment needed - which doesn't exist - to clear snow and ice because we rarely need it. Most of our vehicles don't have snow tires either. It pays to have patience in these conditions.
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Added a few things :)
 
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