taxi confusion at a class charlie field (KGRR), great controllers

AndyMac

Pre-takeoff checklist
Joined
Mar 11, 2021
Messages
156
Location
West MI
Display Name

Display name:
Andy
I hate admitting failures, but I have learned so much from reading about others' failures, it is only fair that I share this one.

"a couple of nights ago" (vague so you don't look up the LiveATC audio hahaha!), I was departing our class charlie field with two of my kids in our club 172. Our departure was delayed (25min maybe?) by the CAP 182 sitting in the middle of the hanger area waiting for the fuel truck. It was getting late and I got out of the plane to go find out if they minded me trying to taxi around them, etc. When I got back in the plane, I didn't put my kneeboard back. (problem #1. use your kneeboard).

We eventually got untangled, just to get the most complicated taxi instructions I'd ever gotten from ground. I really should have written it down (see problem #1, and add problem #2. write down your taxi instructions.) It was a reasonable enough path, and I pulled up the taxi diagram on my phone, but it was too small (problem #3. grab the ipad. That's why you brought it, idiot).

I'll skip the rest of the play by play, but suffice it to say, the tower probably had a pretty good laugh, watching me sitting at each intersection, trying to make sure I was in the right place. When I eventually pulled out onto the runway, I was so turned around, I went the wrong direction. In my defense, it was an intersection departure on a 10,000' runway, and I turned towards the BEGINNING of the runway I was cleared to depart on, but the incredibly professional tower controller was watching for this. "Skyhawk 12345, that's the wrong way. Do a 180."

So. Yeah. That was embarrassing. The good news is, we learned some important lessons while the field was VERY quiet (there was nobody else on the field or in the airspace).

1. don't skip steps. don't call for taxi instructions without a place to write them down.
2. write down your taxi instructions. you wrote down the dewpoint ffs - why not your route?
3. actually pull up your taxi diagram - even at a familiar airport. You may get an unfamiliar route.
4. <sarcasm> oh I don't know, maybe a GLANCE at your effing compass/DG before pulling onto a runway at an intersection?</sarcasm>
[edit] 5. You control the throttle and the brakes. Don't move until you understand your taxi instructions. [thanks Larry!]

Not my finest day. I sure hope someone (in addition to me!) learns something from this.
 
Last edited:
4. You control the throttle and brakes. Don't move the aircraft until you understand the taxi instructions.
 
I hate admitting failures, but I have learned so much from reading about others' failures, it is only fair that I share this one.

"a couple of nights ago" (vague so you don't look up the LiveATC audio hahaha!), I was departing our class charlie field with two of my kids in our club 172. Our departure was delayed (25min maybe?) by the CAP 182 sitting in the middle of the hanger area waiting for the fuel truck. It was getting late and I got out of the plane to go find out if they minded me trying to taxi around them, etc. When I got back in the plane, I didn't put my kneeboard back. (problem #1. use your kneeboard).

We eventually got untangled, just to get the most complicated taxi instructions I'd ever gotten from ground. I really should have written it down (see problem #1, and add problem #2. write down your taxi instructions.) It was a reasonable enough path, and I pulled up the taxi diagram on my phone, but it was too small (problem #3. grab the ipad. That's why you brought it, idiot).

I'll skip the rest of the play by play, but suffice it to say, the tower probably had a pretty good laugh, watching me sitting at each intersection, trying to make sure I was in the right place. When I eventually pulled out onto the runway, I was so turned around, I went the wrong direction. In my defense, it was an intersection departure on a 10,000' runway, and I turned towards the BEGINNING of the runway I was cleared to depart on, but the incredibly professional tower controller was watching for this. "Skyhawk 12345, that's the wrong way. Do a 180."

So. Yeah. That was embarrassing. The good news is, we learned some important lessons while the field was VERY quiet (there was nobody else on the field or in the airspace).

1. don't skip steps. don't call for taxi instructions without a place to write them down.
2. write down your taxi instructions. you wrote down the dewpoint ffs - why not your route?
3. actually pull up your taxi diagram - even at a familiar airport. You may get an unfamiliar route.
4. <sarcasm> oh I don't know, maybe a GLANCE at your effing compass/DG before pulling onto a runway at an intersection?</sarcasm>
[edit] 5. You control the throttle and the brakes. Don't move until you understand your taxi instructions. [thanks Larry!]

Not my finest day. I sure hope someone (in addition to me!) learns something from this.

Do you think the CAP dude came away from it rethinking where he should wait for the truck next time he needs gas?
 
Do you think the CAP dude came away from it rethinking where he should wait for the truck next time he needs gas?

I doubt it. What would you have done?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
Was a progressive not an option?
 
Was a progressive not an option?

Yeah - part of the play by play I spared you all. I did request progressive (after my first intersection that I didn’t know what to do about…) and they happily accommodated. I needed to go straight for a while and didn’t realize it was so far, so I kept stopping to read signs.

In reviewing the chart and the audio the next morning, I stopped at both HSs I taxied through. 4 and 5 way intersections the size of football fields.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
Not much need for progressive at GRR taxiway A and D parallel the big runway. "Taxi to runway 26L via Romeo and Alpha, cross runway 35" Of course if you think east is west and west is east....oops.

Were you at Signature? And why were they giving you intersection departure? I have always gone all the way to the end there unless I request intersection departure.
 
Not much need for progressive at GRR taxiway A and D parallel the big runway. "Taxi to runway 26L via Romeo and Alpha, cross runway 35" Of course if you think east is west and west is east....oops.

Were you at Signature? And why were they giving you intersection departure? I have always gone all the way to the end unless I request it.

First clearance was for F to D to B, but I asked about G and they changed it to F to G to B. So i taxied down B most of the way, where the taxiway is wide enough to land a fleet of F16s.

I was in the North T hangers and 26R was closed. I’m new to the field (just got into a club) and wasn’t prepared for the confusion that is HS3 and HS2 from a 172.

And all the things above…


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
Why did I ask about G you ask? Because it comes after F in the alphabet and was worried I’d missed my turn. Because i didn’t look at the chart.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
Oh you were on the north side. I thought you were still at Sparta and just went down there for fun. Yeah, that's a jumbled mess, so you were 26L at B for departure, and decided to take off over the river instead? :D
 
Oh you were on the north side. I thought you were still at Sparta and just went down there for fun. Yeah, that's a jumbled mess, so you were 26L at B for departure, and decided to take off over the river instead? :D

Yeah - once I got there. I turned left to take the runway and they had me turn around on the ground. I felt very hand-held and both grateful and stupid.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
It happens, one of my students was going in there from the SE and was to be landing on 8R, when they got to just about the final of 35, tower said make right traffic, and according to the student didn't indicate for which runway. So they made a right turn onto the final for 35. After they landed on 35 tower cleared them for the option on 35. They were going to do two more landings there, but bailed out of embarrassment.
 
It happens, one of my students was going in there from the SE and was to be landing on 8R, when they got to just about the final of 35, tower said make right traffic, and according to the student didn't indicate for which runway. So they made a right turn onto the final for 35. After they landed on 35 tower cleared them for the option on 35. They were going to do two more landings there, but bailed out of embarrassment.

ATC was pretty dang accommodating. When I asked about G, I almost wish they hadn’t been

After learning at Sparta, I was *pretty* prepared for 26R/08L, but I didn’t realize how much more complicated taxiing around to other places would be.

Glad I’m not completely alone?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
I doubt it. What would you have done?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Don’t know exactly, but it sounds like room was made for you to get around. So I very likely may have said something like, next time how about not blocking other planes while you’re waiting for the truck.
 
Don’t know exactly, but it sounds like room was made for you to get around. So I very likely may have said something like, next time how about not blocking other planes while you’re waiting for the truck.

It was a bit of a mess. They pulled in as I was sitting in the middle between hangers - hadn't started up yet. They didn't push back for a couple minutes so I waited. Then as I was about to start up, the fuel truck came, so I got out to ask them if they minded if I try to taxi by. They didn't, but by then the fuel truck was nearly done. It is stupid stuff that I just don't have enough experience to be decisive on. Well - didn't. Now I do :)
 
Some days are just like that. I pulled a dumb one on the ground once. For the sake of simplicity, imagine a diamond, where the exit from the runway is one point, and the FBO is at the opposite point. Both are similar distance, no crossing runways, etc. For some reason I had in my head I would probably go left then right to get to the FBO. ATC gave me the right then left route, lets say Taxiway C to Taxiway B to ramp. I read back the correct directions then turned left, expectation bias. The ground controller just chuckled and was like N123AB, follow Taxiway B to Taxiway C to ramp instead. Total brain fart.
 
Intersection departures can be tricky, as your example illustrates. We are all humans and we make mistakes. Sounds like you are the type who learns from your mistakes, and that's the personality type who will do well in this business. Thanks for sharing.
 
Intersection departures can be tricky, as your example illustrates. We are all humans and we make mistakes. Sounds like you are the type who learns from your mistakes, and that's the personality type who will do well in this business. Thanks for sharing.

Thanks for that. Wasn’t easy but I’m glad I did.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
They are great at grr- they put up with me figuring stuff out in that same bird Andy!

One night they stayed open a few minutes late for me as I was wet behind the ears, it was night and frankly I got lost amongst the city lights… no clue what I was thinking in hindsight! I’d been on a straight in since Lansing pretty much and somehow was flying north when they asked if I was lost! they turned me around and lit up the field like it was noon.

you got this ;)
 
Thanks for sharing.

I had a nice experience with controllers going to and from GRR.

I’m sure the tower guys would appreciate a call thanking them for not jumping your shiz. Just brightens their day a tiny bit, keeps the good will goin’round.
 
They are great at grr- they put up with me figuring stuff out in that same bird Andy!

One night they stayed open a few minutes late for me as I was wet behind the ears, it was night and frankly I got lost amongst the city lights… no clue what I was thinking in hindsight! I’d been on a straight in since Lansing pretty much and somehow was flying north when they asked if I was lost! they turned me around and lit up the field like it was noon.

you got this ;)

I can picture it [mention]Huckster79 [/mention] - Thanks for the image :)

I’m sure I just came off as task saturated lol. If they had heard my kids on the intercom they would have understood. No mics for them next time if they can’t figure it out.

Plus all the other stuff above. I think I’ve decided I won’t skip installing the iPad on the yoke unless I’m just doing pattern work on the north GA runway. So 4 good lessons and a new personal minimum.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
Thanks for sharing.

I had a nice experience with controllers going to and from GRR.

I’m sure the tower guys would appreciate a call thanking them for not jumping your shiz. Just brightens their day a tiny bit, keeps the good will goin’round.

That’s a nice idea. I may try to do that. Thanks!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
At least one of the tower controllers flies out of my home drome.
 
Back
Top