Talk Me Out of Speed

You don’t HAVE to fly at max cruise.

You're right! When giving rides for Airport Day with mostly 172s, I pull back the throttle from my "normal" low altitude 23"/2300 to about 16"/2300, and don't run over any of them. Plane flies just fine like that. But it's not how I would choose to travel very far . . . Then again, I'm not trying to build hours towards any goal and haven't needed to since completing my insurance dual when I first bought the Mooney.
 
Hey @GaryP1007

I'm outside Boston myself, and do similar-length missions; mostly semi local ~1-2hr trips, couple of times a year to ARB. I analyzed a similar question recently, as my partnership is upgrading (I sold my Diamond share and joined up with two others in a Mooney; we're going to something roomier).

Couple of thoughts:

Using ARB as a benchmark, with the DA40 (140kt true), an increase to 160~170kt doesn't even make a dent in door-door time - assuming a stop in the middle for passenger comfort. I still beat the airlines in door/door cost and time. Shorter trips, speed factors in even less so.

To reliably make the trip without a stop in the middle (which would save ~30 mins), I'd need to be deep in turbo territory (210-220kt true) and on O2 (negating passenger comfort improvements ;) ). Big costs here (doing this for fun, not business). As well, the longer trips (anything greater than 1hr leg) were a pretty small percentage of my flights and time, though the longer trips stick out in memory.

Ultimately, we decided that the biggest limitation of the Diamond was weight carrying capability and the biggest limitation of the Mooney is cabin space/access, but haven't settled on a solution. Aside of climb rate, speed isn't factoring in for me as long as we can get the ~140kt I got out of the Diamond.
 
True.

But since you are coming up with additional details that affect time, we might as well recognize that the percentage difference generally gets bigger due to wind. Headwinds cost more minutes than tailwinds save, and that situation worsens with a slower plane.
It won't, but if you're bent on buying another plane, that doesn't have the same cockpit width that your current plane has , for a marginal increase in speed, and that you're thoroughly comfortable flying, then go for it. If you're married, your wife can have all the clothes and shoes and any care she wants though. Same diff.

I wise man once told me.... son, look at all the planes you want.... then buy the one the wife likes!
 
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OK, I need a therapy session. I have been flying a Dakota for about 10 years now. Nice plane, well maintained and it has always been good to me.

I seem to always want more speed. I flight plan at 137 kts in the Dakota. I love the idea of 160+ in a Mooney but I am not sure that ditching the Dakota for a Mooney makes sense. Obviously useful load decreases considerably etc. etc. etc.

Can you help me convince myself that another 20-25 kts won't matter?

How has nobody mentioned a Comanche 250 yet? Stick to the Piper stuff and you can have your cake and eat it too! I'm at least 20kts faster than your Dakota, 1200+lb useful load, bigger than the Dakota and you are already used to feeding the O-540. Flying a four cylinder aircraft isn't nearly as balanced feeling as a 6-banger with a 3 blade prop. Oh and acquisition cost is cheaper than your Dakota. Sure they are older planes (sh#t all good airplanes are getting old) but they were way ahead of their time.
 
How has nobody mentioned a Comanche 250 yet? Stick to the Piper stuff and you can have your cake and eat it too! I'm at least 20kts faster than your Dakota, 1200+lb useful load, bigger than the Dakota and you are already used to feeding the O-540. Flying a four cylinder aircraft isn't nearly as balanced feeling as a 6-banger with a 3 blade prop. Oh and acquisition cost is cheaper than your Dakota. Sure they are older planes (sh#t all good airplanes are getting old) but they were way ahead of their time.

Don't shoot the messenger, but since you asked...

It's because Mx costs delta between the two are not insignificant. Bladders, invasive tail horn recurring inspections, unobtanium or seasonally procured gear components, need for "comanche specialty" mechanics to service the latter (if you wish to not pencil whip it that is), it all adds up to the ownership experience beyond just money.

You obviously don't think it's a hindrance, but not everybody feels that way. The Dakota will be much less cantankerous to maintain imo. Every single system of my airplane (Arrow) is cheaper to maintain than in the comanche equivalent.

When we looked at the 250, initially for the incredible discount they carry to the 260B and later, we got to sit in one. The bench seat is really poorly installed in the cabin (tailbone of the bench seat too far forward in the cabin), and robs a lot of effective leg room. It has less leg room than even our arrow. The enclosed luggage area also robs it of additional cabin volume. Both points were non-starters from my wife. I never understood how come an otherwise aerodynamically near-identical and dimensionally identical model would carry such a discount. I figured it out that day.

Other than that, for a 2 person mission, your point is noted. I would go VFR direct to a 250 comanche, at my level of comfort about aircraft ownership. For pax centric ops, it's really not even with the speed advantage. It certainly wouldn't be my first aircraft to own due to the MX nuances, in the way say I wouldn't be uncomfortable about a first-time owning a Dakota, but that metric is irrelevant for the OP in this discussion.
 
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So @GaryP1007 have you bought the Mooney yet?

Because this thread is headed into the usual morass of nothingness that results from all airplane purchase threads here. :)

Might as well go faster if you can afford it. :)
 
So @GaryP1007 have you bought the Mooney yet?

Because this thread is headed into the usual morass of nothingness that results from all airplane purchase threads here. :)

Might as well go faster if you can afford it. :)

He just started the thread 3 days ago. He hasn't even had time to fully digest all the 'wisdom' dispensed in this thread. :D
 
He just started the thread 3 days ago. He hasn't even had time to fully digest all the 'wisdom' dispensed in this thread. :D

That’s plenty of time to put a contract on a Mooney. LOL.

Get ON with it! Hahaha. Life is short. :)
 
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I though this was a thread about speed.... Mooney, Bonanza, nor Comanche's are fast. We have gotten off topic. :cool:
 
I've got a 75 F model Mooney right now. I'm seriously considering a FIKI Ovation that's on the field for a net gain of + 30 knots.

Sent from my XT1585 using Tapatalk
 
I think I am good with the Dakota in the near term. As was said earlier there is no perfect airplane....and unless I can make a huge speed jump my going from 140 to 160 doesnt make a ton of sense.
 
Don't shoot the messenger, but since you asked...

It's because Mx costs delta between the two are not insignificant. Bladders, invasive tail horn recurring inspections, unobtanium or seasonally procured gear components, need for "comanche specialty" mechanics to service the latter (if you wish to not pencil whip it that is), it all adds up to the ownership experience beyond just money.

You obviously don't think it's a hindrance, but not everybody feels that way. The Dakota will be much less cantankerous to maintain imo. Every single system of my airplane (Arrow) is cheaper to maintain than in the comanche equivalent.

When we looked at the 250, initially for the incredible discount they carry to the 260B and later, we got to sit in one. The bench seat is really poorly installed in the cabin (tailbone of the bench seat too far forward in the cabin), and robs a lot of effective leg room. It has less leg room than even our arrow. The enclosed luggage area also robs it of additional cabin volume. Both points were non-starters from my wife. I never understood how come an otherwise aerodynamically near-identical and dimensionally identical model would carry such a discount. I figured it out that day.

Other than that, for a 2 person mission, your point is noted. I would go VFR direct to a 250 comanche, at my level of comfort about aircraft ownership. For pax centric ops, it's really not even with the speed advantage. It certainly wouldn't be my first aircraft to own due to the MX nuances, in the way say I wouldn't be uncomfortable about a first-time owning a Dakota, but that metric is irrelevant for the OP in this discussion.

The Comanche doesn't seem to cost any more in MX than a few of my friends' Mooney aircraft. A buddy just did pucks all around and those little metal plates on top of them to the tune of a couple grand! I love all airplanes and and they all can be mx hogs, especially Complex ones. I certainly would NOT trade a Dakota for a Comanche or Mooney but since the topic was speed, I had to give my plane a pat on the back! haha
 
And let's not forget...Chicks dig speed. :D

View attachment 60484

OK... the "G" on Speed's shirt is for "Go" - in the original manga and anime his name was "Go", which also means "Five" (Mach Go!), and it also means "Go". Trixie's "M" is for "Michi". I always thought she was awesome. Smart, cute, and not a bad helicopter pilot.

It turns out that Go and Michi got married, but there were some issues with Spritle (Kurio Mifune), and the Marriage failed. Trixie moved to Wapakoneta with Kurio, where they opened a candy store. Go ended up getting Chim-chim in the divorce. Chim-Chim vanished one night after a drunken argument with Sparky (Sabu) the mechanic and drove off in the Mach 5. Go and Sabu now live in a trailer part outside of Ishikawa, and make a living driving a towel delivery truck to hot springs.
 
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