Talk me out of renewing my AOPA membership

LOL, you got to be kidding. I never knew until now they killed those forums. Maybe I'm just getting old, but I'm a blue collar worker and had my license since the 80's and several planes. My membership is 149 a year , I have the basic pilot legal added on also, of coarse they change so much i really don't know what it is anymore. The only dealing I have is when they send a reminder to check my credit card for auto renewal. To me, I have enough trouble trying to afford for my own maintenance and flight time along with other interests (why i didn't know the red board was gone) to have to chip in and have people jet setting around the country on our dime AND GIVING away a airplane per year while making those salaries. Stop the expense of rebuilding and giving away a airplane and lower the membership pricing. Help all instead of giving away to one. I'd rather read about some service procedures or approaches rather than how nice someone vacation spot was. I have a couple partners and as far as i know I have never been able to take advantage of any of their discounts whether for insurance or a just a damn enterprise rental car waiting at a airport. By the way, my busy local airport was closed down 10 years ago and plowed under for farm land, had to tear down and scrap 4 PortaPorts i owned so maybe I'm just a bit sensitive on all the we are fighting for your airport. Maybe they are fighting, just would be nice to actually see it.
 
They aren’t doing anything to support GA.

Well, ok, they’re doing something, but they aren’t keeping us informed.

All they do is send me spam and a magazines that I don’t read.

Oh……they report what they’re doing in email and the magazine?

All they ever do is brag about what they claim to have accomplished!
 
Maybe its time to start another association.I think they will be too busy worrying about how they are going to find jet fuel in the near future to be bothered with 100ll.
 
I'd like to see Mark Baker on a few forums showing support for us. It is like they are in some lofty tower like royalty that can't be bothered with the rank and file. I don't care if he is "busy". Has anyone had any sort of personal interaction with him? Has he ever participated on a forum post? Anyting other a mass email or letter?
 
My point is, join at least ONE organization that is a voice in DC for what you are interested in.

For GA, that is AOPA or EAA. Pick one. Support them. A lot of the support is just being a member. When they talk to Congress, they can say the represent XXX,XXX GA pilots, or more importantly XXX,XXX VOTERS.

Even better, support both. So when both are talking, you get counted twice.
 
JoeInCT said:
Has anyone had any sort of personal interaction with him?
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At the Beaufort fly in a several years ago, he sat down next to me and talked with me for about 5 minutes about my thoughts on the state of GA. BasicMed was a big topic and he had a good answer on that - they had it wired in Congress to be attached to every bill until it passed. User fees were another thing we talked about, he was confident of their ability to prevent them.

What have you done for me "lately" needs to consider the timing of lately. Did you catch that Signature agreed to openly post their fees on their website? Anyone think that was entirely altruistic?
 
crashton said:
I am on basic med, I don’t pay user fees, hopefully I will be putting no-lead fuel in my airplane soon, my airport is still open, and I’ve taken a handful of free safety seminars recently. Oh, and I have expanded rights as a pilot thanks to Pilot Bill of Rights. Sounds like the annual dues I have paid to AOPA for the last 35 years are a good investment overall. It’s easy to criticize from the sidelines, so if someone doesn’t want to join AOPA that’s fine, but then explain how you would accomplish any of this yourself? Are you going to go to Washington to meet with your congressmen? Are you going to produce safety content? Are you going to work to expand the pilot population? After 75 years there are still only two major organizations representing GA. It’s because they are doing an effective job and both deserve our support.
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You'll be putting G100UL in your plane soon thanks to George Braly and his team. That man has the patience of a saint.

Those safety seminars? The vast majority of the ones here in SoCal have little or nothing to do with AOPA. They are the product of FAAST Team reps and local airport volunteers. AOPA Air Safety Foundation has good products, which are occasionally brought in, and if you want those to continue, you can donate directly to ASF instead of (or in addition to) paying dues to AOPA.

I seem to end up writing/calling my Congressional Rep and Senators about once year for the past 20 years about something or other regarding aviation issues.

You have the Pilot's Bill of Rights because a Senator screwed up in a small plane and realized the FAA could come after him too.

Expanding the pilot population? Again, that is a local effort around here. I think AOPA wrote an article about some of our programs at FUL a few years ago, that was the extent of their direct support. We have four active youth organizations at our airport, CAP Cadets, Aviation Explorers, and our own local programs, Junior Aviators to provide a non-profit flight training program (with both a Cessna 152 and a 172) and another program where we teach youth and young adults how to build an E/AB.

In answer to "how will I accomplish any of this yourself?", my answer is that I've been an active board member of the Fullerton Airport Pilot Association since it was restarted as an active organization about 10 years ago. All of this requires a team, but AOPA isn't on that team. There is a core group of about a dozen volunteers, and a very helpful airport manager, who makes this all happen.

If AOPA is really helping, they have done a ****-pour way of communicating it. For the staff and budgets they have, they should be doing far more. Those of us who remember the Phil Boyer days know what AOPA is capable of doing. AOPA's last truly big stand was the General Aviation Revitalization Act, which limited the liability for manufacture of new aircraft. That was huge, they took on the lawyers and won. Cirrus likely wouldn't exist without that, and Cessna would be dead.
 
JoeInCT said:
I'd like to see Mark Baker on a few forums showing support for us. It is like they are in some lofty tower like royalty that can't be bothered with the rank and file. I don't care if he is "busy". Has anyone had any sort of personal interaction with him? Has he ever participated on a forum post? Anyting other a mass email or letter?
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It doesn't even need to be Baker. Their communications department is terrible.
 
crashton said:
I am on basic med, I don’t pay user fees, hopefully I will be putting no-lead fuel in my airplane soon, my airport is still open, and I’ve taken a handful of free safety seminars recently. Oh, and I have expanded rights as a pilot thanks to Pilot Bill of Rights. Sounds like the annual dues I have paid to AOPA for the last 35 years are a good investment overall. It’s easy to criticize from the sidelines, so if someone doesn’t want to join AOPA that’s fine, but then explain how you would accomplish any of this yourself? Are you going to go to Washington to meet with your congressmen? Are you going to produce safety content? Are you going to work to expand the pilot population? After 75 years there are still only two major organizations representing GA. It’s because they are doing an effective job and both deserve our support.
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It's comments like those which I don't agree with. I can't attribute "not paying user fees" with AOPA existing. There's nothing out there that I've seen that says we'd be paying user fees without AOPAs efforts. Definitely the same could be said about the unleaded gasoline, since GAMI and SWIFT were leading the charge on that. AOPA got a mention from GAMI, but I'm not sure how much of it was lip-service and how much was actual effort from AOPA. The main safety stuff is from FAAST, not AOPA. Unless your airport was one of the handful under constant barrage from local interest groups, chances are it would still be open anyway. AOPA doesn't do much of anything to keep most airports open, but they do have some involvement on the highly contested ones, and provide some legal help in battling those special interest groups when they come knocking at the door.
 
Has anyone from POA ever reached out to AOPA if someone would like to be part of the discussion? We frequently see manufacturers reps on but I have never seen anyone from AOPA here or on any other forum ever. Sure a manufacturer is trying to sell a product, but AOPA is selling a service.
 
SoonerAviator said:
I can't attribute "not paying user fees" with AOPA existing.
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You can believe that AOPA was not influential in stopping user fees, but it's uninformed to believe they had no impact. Well, unless you believe the AOPA lobby has no influence and there are plenty of counter examples for that. We know who was pushing user fees (govt and business aviation). But who, other than AOPA were opposing them?
 
bflynn said:
You can believe that AOPA was not influential in stopping user fees, but it's uninformed to believe they had no impact. Well, unless you believe the AOPA lobby has no influence and there are plenty of counter examples for that. We know who was pushing user fees (govt and business aviation). But who, other than AOPA were opposing them?
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My point isn't that they have zero impact, my point is that no one knows what level of impact/influence they have. It's a catch-22. It's hard to prove a negative. The absence of user fees does not mean AOPA is the reason for it, as we didn't have user fees to begin with. However, AOPA is so terrible about showing how much time/money/effort was spent on combatting the user fees that no one knows if they did anything useful or not.
 
SoonerAviator said:
My point isn't that they have zero impact, my point is that no one knows what level of impact/influence they have. It's a catch-22. It's hard to prove a negative. The absence of user fees does not mean AOPA is the reason for it, as we didn't have user fees to begin with. However, AOPA is so terrible about showing how much time/money/effort was spent on combatting the user fees that no one knows if they did anything useful or not.
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I would also argue, reluctantly, on their behalf to say tht it would really ruin their influence if they came out and did a big victory lap after they convince someone of something. The influence with the FAA on GAMI and the work on user fee transparency is the kind of thing where, if you take a victory lap, you'll get a big FU the next time you ask those same people to help you on the next issue.

I do feel like AOPA is too geared to high end jets and stuff and certainly has tons of fat, but, since I can't control that, my choices are either pay the $100 and take what benefit I can, or don't pay it, and lose a voice that is mostly batting for me.
 
SoonerAviator said:
My point isn't that they have zero impact, my point is that no one knows what level of impact/influence they have. It's a catch-22. It's hard to prove a negative. The absence of user fees does not mean AOPA is the reason for it, as we didn't have user fees to begin with. However, AOPA is so terrible about showing how much time/money/effort was spent on combatting the user fees that no one knows if they did anything useful or not.
Click to expand...
I would also argue, reluctantly, on their behalf to say tht it would really ruin their influence if they came out and did a big victory lap after they convince someone of something. The influence with the FAA on GAMI and the work on user fee transparency is the kind of thing where, if you take a victory lap, you'll get a big FU the next time you ask those same people to help you on the next issue.

I do feel like AOPA is too geared to high end jets and stuff and certainly has tons of fat, but, since I can't control that, my choices are either pay the $100 and take what benefit I can, or don't pay it, and lose a voice that is mostly batting for me.
 
the world is not binary (despite your 2 posts).

AOPA didn't have to do a victory lap in-your-face trash talk. But they could communicate better... much much better.
 
Bob Noel said:
the world is not binary (despite your 2 posts).

AOPA didn't have to do a victory lap in-your-face trash talk. But they could communicate better... much much better.
Click to expand...

Agreed. They didn't need to come out and say "we told those sons of B*tches what was what", but they can communicate the ways which they showed the benefit of staying away from a user-fee based system without ruffling feathers.
 
SoonerAviator said:
My point isn't that they have zero impact, my point is that no one knows what level of impact/influence they have. It's a catch-22. It's hard to prove a negative. The absence of user fees does not mean AOPA is the reason for it, as we didn't have user fees to begin with. However, AOPA is so terrible about showing how much time/money/effort was spent on combatting the user fees that no one knows if they did anything useful or not.
Click to expand...
I would also argue, reluctantly, on their behalf to say tht it would really ruin their influence if they came out and did a big victory lap after they convince someone of something. The influence with the FAA on GAMI and the work on user fee transparency is the kind of thing where, if you take a victory lap, you'll get a big FU the next time you ask those same people to help you on the next issue.

I do feel like AOPA is too geared to high end jets and stuff and certainly has tons of fat, but, since I can't control that, my choices are either pay the $100 and take what benefit I can, or don't pay it, and lose a voice that is mostly batting for me.
 
Bob Noel said:
the world is not binary (despite your 2 posts).

AOPA didn't have to do a victory lap in-your-face trash talk. But they could communicate better... much much better.
Click to expand...

I agree! Individuals and companies that are successful will make that fact known ... that brings about more success. But it doesn't have to be a beat down approach!

Meanwhile the changes that have taken place with AOPA recently have driven me away and it would be difficult, if ever, for me to consider returning. Meanwhile there is a lot to like about EAA and they are a better fit for me and a host of pilots and friends that I know and what it is we want from aviation. BTW ... AOPA was at the EAA fly-in this year ... :dunno:
 
Racerx said:
Has anyone from POA ever reached out to AOPA if someone would like to be part of the discussion? We frequently see manufacturers reps on but I have never seen anyone from AOPA here or on any other forum ever. Sure a manufacturer is trying to sell a product, but AOPA is selling a service.
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I would be absolutely shocked if there were not several AOPA employees that keep an eye on this site as well as others. I suppose in the interest of "neutrality" or some such other idea... I can see where they might think it's a good idea to remain a ghost and not comment on anything.
I'm impressed that folks from Van's Aircraft actually post and respond occasionally in the Van's forum

I've been thinking about all the many comments here about how AOPA doesn't communicate what if anything they are influencing. Seems to me that perhaps AOPA is trying to be too many things at once and maybe they really just don't have a clear identity and are confused themselves. Maybe they need to decide on their "pronoun":eek:
are they lobbyists?
are they journalists?
are they social facilitators?
are they a pilot support organization?
  • they have the magazine...which seemingly just competes with other more "journalistic" attempts such as Flying or Plane and Pilot (do those even still exist?)....story telling, teaching, updating on the latest news, etc...
  • the e-newsletter stuff and the youtube video magazine which are similar in the attempt for journalism
  • then, you have the pilot support efforts...the medical advisory people, the legal stuff
  • and the plane sweeptakes effort for whatever that is supposed to accomplish
  • I suppose there's probably a focus in there somewhere on training support and so on
  • and then you have the attempts at holding little regional fly in conventions
  • and I assume a major focus is supposed to be the political lobby...but that is eclipsed by all the other stuff as far as I can tell.

Sadly I think EAA is similar in their lack of focused identity
their foundation was experimental homebuilt in the old days...but I'm not so sure that's the focus any longer. Things seem to have really shifted with not so many people doing scratch builds, etc... so I'm sure that's part of the reason.... but still
I went looking for a searchable database of currently available kits not too long ago, and they do not really seem to have anything! I even emailed them through some contact us page or maybe it was just pure email, asking about it...never even got a reply!!
I was looking for something I could plug in variables...number of seats, cruising speed, etc... and it would list all kits and plans that fit. Thought for sure EAA would have that. Nope!!
 
Brad W said:
I would be absolutely shocked if there were not several AOPA employees that keep an eye on this site as well as others. I suppose in the interest of "neutrality" or some such other idea... I can see where they might think it's a good idea to remain a ghost and not comment on anything.
I'm impressed that folks from Van's Aircraft actually post and respond occasionally in the Van's forum

I've been thinking about all the many comments here about how AOPA doesn't communicate what if anything they are influencing. Seems to me that perhaps AOPA is trying to be too many things at once and maybe they really just don't have a clear identity and are confused themselves. Maybe they need to decide on their "pronoun":eek:
are they lobbyists?
are they journalists?
are they social facilitators?
are they a pilot support organization?
  • they have the magazine...which seemingly just competes with other more "journalistic" attempts such as Flying or Plane and Pilot (do those even still exist?)....story telling, teaching, updating on the latest news, etc...
  • the e-newsletter stuff and the youtube video magazine which are similar in the attempt for journalism
  • then, you have the pilot support efforts...the medical advisory people, the legal stuff
  • and the plane sweeptakes effort for whatever that is supposed to accomplish
  • I suppose there's probably a focus in there somewhere on training support and so on
  • and then you have the attempts at holding little regional fly in conventions
  • and I assume a major focus is supposed to be the political lobby...but that is eclipsed by all the other stuff as far as I can tell.

Sadly I think EAA is similar in their lack of focused identity
their foundation was experimental homebuilt in the old days...but I'm not so sure that's the focus any longer. Things seem to have really shifted with not so many people doing scratch builds, etc... so I'm sure that's part of the reason.... but still
I went looking for a searchable database of currently available kits not too long ago, and they do not really seem to have anything! I even emailed them through some contact us page or maybe it was just pure email, asking about it...never even got a reply!!
I was looking for something I could plug in variables...number of seats, cruising speed, etc... and it would list all kits and plans that fit. Thought for sure EAA would have that. Nope!!
Click to expand...
https://www.kitplanes.com/buyers-guide-search/
 
thanks! but yeah I had found that one when i was searching. Good but a little lacking. For example, I might want to search for 2 seats...not from 1 to 3.
Still I figured EAA would have even a better database...I mean that's a HUGE organization that has been established a very long time and is all about THAT very topic....so why wouldn't they have the most comprehensive reference for it's members imaginable?
 
Brad W said:
Still I figured EAA would have even a better database...I mean that's a HUGE organization that has been established a very long time and is all about THAT very topic....so why wouldn't they have the most comprehensive reference for it's members imaginable?
Click to expand...

Actually they have two ... Air Venture & Sun-N-Fun ... but I get your point!
 
Racerx said:
I thought Sun n fun was a separate entity?
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Maybe so ... I'm old & confused these days! I do know my EAA membership gets a break on ticket prices, but that's prolly true for AOPA too ...
 
yeah...but it's kinda the same event but in miniature
If I recall correctly EAA used to be affiliated so us old timers still link the two organizations together
 
Jim K said:
Watching the comments here with interest.
It seems like there are plenty of intelligent people who love aviation enough to do baker's job for a lot less money.
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I'd do it for 500k and that reserve would be used to support all aspects of aviation not just the ones like alternate fuels that get the most political clout.
 
crashton said:
Are you going to go to Washington to meet with your congressmen?
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I'm curious, what are they doing besides scholarships to expand the pilot population? Are they fighting for insurance reform? Medical beyond basic med?
Your argument is valid from your seat, but I guess I don't get excited about putting non-lead in my plane, especially when we don't know the ultimate cost. I for one don't want believe that it's going to be the same or cheaper especially if we go by today's prices. I own a Rotax, I can thank the likes of EAA for allowing this type of advancement, I can thank EAA for things like Light Sport. Unless I'm flying a PC-12, I guess I'm slowly loosing the perspective of the value of AOPA, many are or their membership #'s would be climbing.
 
I'm thinking they should be offering a $5 annual membership to pilots over 65, until they spend down some of the cash. And no, I'm not over 65.
 
Albany Tom said:
I'm thinking they should be offering a $5 annual membership to pilots over 65, until they spend down some of the cash. And no, I'm not over 65.
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I think a reasonable alternative might be to leave dues where the are, but use the surplus funds to add pilot protection services at no extra charge. I doubt the actual cost is anywhere close to the price charged.

Heck, they wouldn’t even have to send me (another) hat....
 
OneCharlieTango said:
How are the membership numbers as a percentage of GA pilots?
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Best approximation I can make is AOPA is currently about 40% of total pilots, it used to be closer to 2/3rds. Membership peak at around 415,000 about 20 years ago.
 
Racerx said:
Has anyone from POA ever reached out to AOPA if someone would like to be part of the discussion? We frequently see manufacturers reps on but I have never seen anyone from AOPA here or on any other forum ever. Sure a manufacturer is trying to sell a product, but AOPA is selling a service.
Click to expand...
@TomHaines is a member and has posted infrequently over the years while still an AOPA employee. I believe I've seen him post on Beechtalk as well.
 
Looks like I'm a member now until 2024. I renewed updating my CC which had expired. Shortly after renewing, AOPA auto-renewal kicked in signing me up for yet another year :)
 
Half Fast said:
I think a reasonable alternative might be to leave dues where the are, but use the surplus funds to add pilot protection services at no extra charge. I doubt the actual cost is anywhere close to the price charged.

Heck, they wouldn’t even have to send me (another) hat....
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they sent you a hat?
I don't remember the last time they sent me anything.... except the magazine I pay for.... I always have to slug into their sun n fun tent and beg for one.
I'm on auto renewal so maybe that's why. Perhaps I should turn that off and make 'em think I'm not going to renew!~

and on the tent at sun n fun (& Airventure too)....seems like they always have a pretty big showing with a huge tent, but I've never really found anything interesting there. They really need to think of something to offer in that tent besides teh opportunity to beg for a free hat
( I do appreciate the hats by the way, they're the only ones I get anymore)
 
Brad W said:
they sent you a hat?
I don't remember the last time they sent me anything.... except the magazine I pay for.... I always have to slug into their sun n fun tent and beg for one.
I'm on auto renewal so maybe that's why. Perhaps I should turn that off and make 'em think I'm not going to renew!~

and on the tent at sun n fun (& Airventure too)....seems like they always have a pretty big showing with a huge tent, but I've never really found anything interesting there. They really need to think of something to offer in that tent besides teh opportunity to beg for a free hat
( I do appreciate the hats by the way, they're the only ones I get anymore)
Click to expand...

Secret hint -- if you turn off auto-renew, and hold off on your next subscription payment, AOPA will bribe you with swag to sign up again.

Sometimes a hat, sometimes a headset bag.
 
ElPaso Pilot said:
Secret hint -- if you turn off auto-renew, and hold off on your next subscription payment, AOPA will bribe you with swag to sign up again.

Sometimes a hat, sometimes a headset bag.
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I tried that once and they never sent the hat, even after I called them on it.
 
I used to get a hat by renewing at Oshkosh every year. Word is hardly anyone gives hats away at OSH anymore because the people who SELL hats there complained that the giveaways were hurting their business. EAA supposedly relented and asked exhibitors to stop giving hats away. Apocryphal story, but believable.

So take that, you who think EAA is somehow above the fray of political filth.
 
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