FormerHangie
En-Route
I've been looking at the asking prices for used airplanes. Are you sure you don't want to build an RV-10? Paying all that money for a 60 year old airplane does not appeal.
Talk me out of a Debonair
- Thread starter SixPapaCharlie
- Start date
The -33 would be a decent choice only if all the available Cherokee six 300s and Cessna R182s have been taken.
You simply cannot go wrong with a PA-32 or a 200- series Cessna. Cost would be the only barrier.
You simply cannot go wrong with a PA-32 or a 200- series Cessna. Cost would be the only barrier.
hindsight2020
Final Approach
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hindsight2020
You mean other than the shooting how was the play Mrs. Lincoln?
BL, bad time to be looking at trading up airplanes.
BL, bad time to be looking at trading up airplanes.
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GeorgeC
There's one on barnstormers now...
GMascelli
En-Route
Commander 114. Looks cooler than a Deb, much more spacious, no CG issues.
I have flown in both, trust me two doors is a big plus. The other BIG plus for the 114, it's lycoming powered.
I only had my Deb for a very short time so if you want my info, Bryan, give me a call.
midwestpa24
Final Approach
Fixed it for you.
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Drake the Outlaw
I enjoy building stuff, but an RV-10 is a whole lotta work. Worth it in the end, but deferring your fun for 5 years while the kids grow may not be for everyone.
FormerHangie
En-Route
I understand completely, but dayum, the used market is terrible. People are asking $150,000 for a Warrior, and even two seaters are approaching $50,000. Here's a nothing special 50 year old straight tail F33 Bonanza for $150,000. Sheesh.
If Bryan wants a Debonaire, he may be looking a while, there aren't many on the market. Comanches seem to be more plentiful.
FormerHangie
En-Route
I agree, but I'm not sure things are going to get better. For quite a while, we were in the situation where the number of pilots was declining and the fleet was aging/shrinking. The last few years the number of private and sport pilots has been holding steady, and for the most part the average age of the fleet has been increasing by a full year every year. The exceptions are Cirrus and Diamond, and to a lesser extent Cessnal 172s and Piper Archers.
455 Bravo Uniform
Final Approach
Hey, that’s my hangar door #4 in the background, lol!
charheep
Cleared for Takeoff
As a former Bo owner and a future Deb owner, go for it. As I understand it, the Deb is the same plane wings forward as the Bo. The tail is different, but they fly the same. If you want to talk to my broker, he can chat your ear off for a long time about them. He is well known in the Beech world and can fill in details about pricing and such.
schmookeeg
En-Route
I find the 260hp debs the "rightest" ones. Standard on the rare G33 Deb, but many have been converted from the 225hp debs.
Keep an eye on useful load while shopping. A lot of the engine swap STCs on the debs don't come with a gross weight increase, and you might end up with some ridiculous 800# useful contraption with a big engine that you can't carry the fuel for.
Also I'd skip the early 33s without the 2 x 40 gallon main tanks.
Keep an eye on useful load while shopping. A lot of the engine swap STCs on the debs don't come with a gross weight increase, and you might end up with some ridiculous 800# useful contraption with a big engine that you can't carry the fuel for.
Also I'd skip the early 33s without the 2 x 40 gallon main tanks.
Checkout_my_Six
Touchdown! Greaser!
JEB
Pre-takeoff checklist
Hard to tell if that's true when you just show ground speed. Want to share TAS and whether or not you're doing a like for like comparison with things like engine and turbocharging?
You might be very surprised what some Debonairs can do. Off the top of my head, Debs could be 225, 270, 285 or 300HP machines. There might be even more variations that someone like Schmookeeg could name. Some have been modded with turbos too. Take a look at the performance on an F33 for an example of what a higher powered BE33 can do. Some of them are faster than my 300HP A36.
flyingcheesehead
Touchdown! Greaser!
Wow. There were only three built, and none flying from who-knows when probably in the late 70s up until 2018... I was gonna call BS on this whole thing but it's for real:
https://www.barnstormers.com/classified-1660956-Piper-PA-40-Arapaho.html
However, there's a bit of a problem with the registration. N9997P, the original tail number for that PA-40, is now assigned to a Cessna 182. So either the PA40 needs a new tail (it definitely needs new paint!) or you've gotta pay off the owner of the 182 and maybe buy them a paint job too. I would want to keep the classic tail number if I owned it... And it appears that's what the owner did. N9998P was the tail number of the one Piper scrapped, and while there was a King Air 200 that had that tail from 2005-2013, it's back on the Arapaho, S/N 3 this time instead of the long-gone S/N 2.
I hope it got a paint job in the process.
Checkout_my_Six
Touchdown! Greaser!
JEB
Pre-takeoff checklist
I guess I'm not getting your point. Looks like you fly a turbo V35. If that's the case, you know that a 33 with a turbo is just as fast. Maybe you could use a couple words? If you're just showing off your plane's performance, I get it. I like to do that too, but it's really not a fair comparison to a Deb.
ktup-flyer
En-Route
You need to fly in @simtech’s 67 V35
Groundpounder
En-Route
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Emerson Bigguns
I own half of an F33A. See avatar. Nicest flying airplane I've ever flown. Fast as hell, and very efficient when run LOP. I'm tall and not skinny, and I fit in it just fine. My airplane partner is built kind of like me, and we did a leg of over 4 hours in it once. We were both ready to get out of it by the time we landed, but it was a comfortable ride.
What I don't like about it is the horrible panel layout, especially with the dual yoke. I can't see the gear lights unless I lean forward and look over the yoke bar. Also can't see the engine controls unless I do the same thing. You get used to it after a while, but it is a pain. It is a little better with the single throw over yoke. Also, they can get out of the aft CG range pretty easy. The fuel is forward of the spar, so it gets even worse the more you fly. But it works just fine for 95% of the flying I do, which is me and my wife. We don't have kids, so no worries about having to accommodate them.
Beechcraft parts aren't expensive, Textron parts are. My mechanic says that there isn't much of a difference between Cessna parts and Beech parts these days. All that being said, in the three years I have been a part of this airplane, we have not had to buy any parts that are exclusive to the airplane, they have all been off the shelf parts that didn't come from Textron.
The IO-520 has been flawless so far. It had 50 hours on it when we bought the airplane. Took some tweaking to get the CHT's evened out, and had to replace one GAMIJector to help with LOP operation, but once we did that there were no more issues. We have over 400 hours on it now. Oil analysis every other oil change, and we upload our engine data to Saavy.
Regarding the V-Tails and their magnesium control surfaces. My airplane has magnesium for all of its control surfaces as well, but there is an STC to replace them with aluminum. The V-Tail does not have that option, hence some airplanes have died due to hangar rash. From what I understand, the magnesium that is needed to cover them is back in production again, so it may be a non-issue.
Every airplane has its limitations, you just need to figure out what is important to you, and go from there. This airplane is perfect for me, but it may not be for you.
What I don't like about it is the horrible panel layout, especially with the dual yoke. I can't see the gear lights unless I lean forward and look over the yoke bar. Also can't see the engine controls unless I do the same thing. You get used to it after a while, but it is a pain. It is a little better with the single throw over yoke. Also, they can get out of the aft CG range pretty easy. The fuel is forward of the spar, so it gets even worse the more you fly. But it works just fine for 95% of the flying I do, which is me and my wife. We don't have kids, so no worries about having to accommodate them.
Beechcraft parts aren't expensive, Textron parts are. My mechanic says that there isn't much of a difference between Cessna parts and Beech parts these days. All that being said, in the three years I have been a part of this airplane, we have not had to buy any parts that are exclusive to the airplane, they have all been off the shelf parts that didn't come from Textron.
The IO-520 has been flawless so far. It had 50 hours on it when we bought the airplane. Took some tweaking to get the CHT's evened out, and had to replace one GAMIJector to help with LOP operation, but once we did that there were no more issues. We have over 400 hours on it now. Oil analysis every other oil change, and we upload our engine data to Saavy.
Regarding the V-Tails and their magnesium control surfaces. My airplane has magnesium for all of its control surfaces as well, but there is an STC to replace them with aluminum. The V-Tail does not have that option, hence some airplanes have died due to hangar rash. From what I understand, the magnesium that is needed to cover them is back in production again, so it may be a non-issue.
Every airplane has its limitations, you just need to figure out what is important to you, and go from there. This airplane is perfect for me, but it may not be for you.
Checkout_my_Six
Touchdown! Greaser!
JEB
Pre-takeoff checklist
Actually, I'm an A36 guy. Your V-Tail is cute. 
masloki
Pattern Altitude
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Nunya
Yeah, the vtail corrosion fix is available. I think it boils down to bang for the buck and all the other trade offs. Honestly, at this point the fam has been in the cirrus and said “this is nice”that might be the best bet. Something about rowing upstream and all that.
After the kids get tired of riding with you, get a Mooney.
After the kids get tired of riding with you, get a Mooney.
masloki
Pattern Altitude
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Nunya
@eman1200 Many moons ago Kent put a half moments of effort into unloading his Mooney, even asking a dollar figure that wasn’t obscene, but it was ultimately unsuccessful and @flyingcheesehead has live happily ever after.
Checkout_my_Six
Touchdown! Greaser!
455 Bravo Uniform
Final Approach
No, it’s still in original paint. I know the owner, and some of the history.
Oh cool. You found a 70kt tailwind.
flyingcheesehead
Touchdown! Greaser!
I want to know how he gets away with flying a plane with a tail number that belongs to someone else!
Ted
The pilot formerly known as Twin Engine Ted
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iFlyNothing
Checkout_my_Six
Touchdown! Greaser!
Ted
The pilot formerly known as Twin Engine Ted
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iFlyNothing
I was just pointing out that Rick bragging was silly. I also think bragging is silly, so I only do it to point out the silliness of it as there’s always someone faster than you.
Besides, the only thing I fly is an RV40, top speed of about 83.
FL490?! What were you flying?
ja_user
Pattern Altitude
Bonanza
That was going to be my first guess!Bonanza
schmookeeg
En-Route
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Bro do you even lift