Talk about out of control...?!

Timbeck2 said:
After reading that entire document, I'm wondering why the legal system seems so antiquated in it's language. "COMES NOW the Plaintiff, Harris Elias.." "Claims for relief" "Prayer for relief" ???

It's a wonder our American attorneys still don't wear wigs. I'm sure that there are enough lawyers on this forum to explain why.
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Without all that crap, nobody would need a lawyer.
 
PaulS said:
Without all that crap, nobody would need a lawyer.
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But don't you feel better knowing that he "had a wonderful time with great food and enjoyable conversation" prior to leaving? Also, he helped his girlfriend clean up and do the dishes! because that is so relevant? I actually thought this was a joke when i read that part.
 
Why would any just system reward a cop for the number of arrests or his arrest rate? Why not only reward them for the percentage of their arrests that result in a conviction? And if their conviction percentage is below a certain number, fire them. That will help to ensure that they do not go after innocent people and that they do their job correctly.
 
NoBShere said:
But don't you feel better knowing that he "had a wonderful time with great food and enjoyable conversation" prior to leaving? Also, he helped his girlfriend clean up and do the dishes! because that is so relevant? I actually thought this was a joke when i read that part.
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Establishes the timeline, does add some fluff though.
 
SkyDog58 said:
Why would any just system reward a cop for the number of arrests or his arrest rate? Why not only reward them for the percentage of their arrests that result in a conviction? And if their conviction percentage is below a certain number, fire them. That will help to ensure that they do not go after innocent people and that they do their job correctly.
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You expect common sense out of public entities?
 
EdFred said:
You expect common sense out of public entities?
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Nah, that would be expecting too much. I was just wondering why someone doesn't put someone else's nuts in a vise when an idea is so stupid that it results in nonsense like this. Sure the cops love the rewards, recognition, and the chance to eff with people, but they do have or are supposed to have civilian oversight. Where are those folks at who are supposedly overseeing the cops? Where are the taxpayer groups who are advocating for less waste in government spending? Certainly these events not only cost money when there is a lawsuit but the over the top prosecution of the law has to cost a bundle. And I'm sure there is real policework that needs to be done instead. But I guess I should be happy that this POS cop is busy issuing bogus DUIs rather than having his knee on someone's throat or shooting a kid at the playground.
 
SkyDog58 said:
Nah, that would be expecting too much. I was just wondering why someone doesn't put someone else's nuts in a vise when an idea is so stupid that it results in nonsense like this. Sure the cops love the rewards, recognition, and the chance to eff with people, but they do have or are supposed to have civilian oversight. Where are those folks at who are supposedly overseeing the cops? Where are the taxpayer groups who are advocating for less waste in government spending? Certainly these events not only cost money when there is a lawsuit but the over the top prosecution of the law has to cost a bundle. And I'm sure there is real policework that needs to be done instead. But I guess I should be happy that this POS cop is busy issuing bogus DUIs rather than having his knee on someone's throat or shooting a kid at the playground.
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Because anytime a change for improvement is proposed to be made it gets shot down because they know it will get spun with "Local PD to allow more drunk drivers on the road" or any other number of twists.
 
EdFred said:
Because anytime a change for improvement is proposed to be made it gets shot down because they know it will get spun with "Local PD to allow more drunk drivers on the road" or any other number of twists.
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Yep, the MADD mom factor.
 
The very existence of the 4th and 5th amendments shows that law enforcement isn’t to be “auto-haloed “… That does not villainize them either. But concern for LE overreach is not a new concern.
 
Looks like a classic "dollars for collars" situation.
 
Good thing he wasn't going to buy a new used car or plane later and carrying cash for it, they'd probably have seized it as "suspected drug money".
 
bflynn said:
True. Nobody ever complains about a few bad garbagemen, do they?
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Timbeck2 said:
I'm sure that there are enough lawyers on this forum to explain why.
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Some of it is because that is the same language that was used in the prior complaint and it worked ok, so no reason to change anything. Some of it is lawyers that feel like they have to make it sound lawyerly. Nothing in the rules require this verbiage in my state or in the federal rules.
 
SkyDog58 said:
Why would any just system reward a cop for the number of arrests or his arrest rate? Why not only reward them for the percentage of their arrests that result in a conviction?
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You really don't want to go there. I don't care what the compensation scheme is, there will be perverse incentives.
 
PPC1052 said:
You really don't want to go there. I don't care what the compensation scheme is, there will be perverse incentives.
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I agree there will always be corruption and perversion of any system but incentivizing cops in any manner to make more arrests or write more tickets without reasonable cause, valid suspicion, or any evidence is senseless and will always lead to civil rights being violated and innocent people suffering. Just my opinion. You are free to believe otherwise.
 
SkyDog58 said:
I agree there will always be corruption and perversion of any system but incentivizing cops in any manner to make more arrests or write more tickets without reasonable cause, valid suspicion, or any evidence is senseless and will always lead to civil rights being violated and innocent people suffering. Just my opinion. You are free to believe otherwise.
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My point is you don’t want to reward officers for convictions. You think it’s bad enough rewarding them for arrests, you don’t want to see what happens when they have a financial incentive when a defendant is convicted.
 
NoBShere said:
But don't you feel better knowing that he "had a wonderful time with great food and enjoyable conversation" prior to leaving? Also, he helped his girlfriend clean up and do the dishes! because that is so relevant? I actually thought this was a joke when i read that part.
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Yeah, that does not seem like good draftsmanship. I've seen some chatty complaints, and even drafted a few. But nothing like that.
 
EdFred said:
Anytime law enforcement gets incentives you can expect corruption and outright lies.
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Any time ANYONE gets incentives you get corruption. Anyone want to guess how many people in the early days of the pandemic died with Covid rather than from Covid? States got more money if people died from Covid, so I suspect there were a lot more cases reported than were actually the case. Couple that with insufficient monitoring and you have the government money tap turned on high. I'm still waiting to hear what schools did with the $82 BILLION given to them to make the schools safe enough to open during the pandemic (thank you, Senator Susan Collins, for asking). The answer was the garbage word salad we've all come to expect. I wish just once Congress would say "not a penny more until you account for all the money we've already given you".
 
judypilot said:
Any time ANYONE gets incentives you get corruption. Anyone want to guess how many people in the early days of the pandemic died with Covid rather than from Covid? States got more money if people died from Covid, so I suspect there were a lot more cases reported than were actually the case. Couple that with insufficient monitoring and you have the government money tap turned on high. I'm still waiting to hear what schools did with the $82 BILLION given to them to make the schools safe enough to open during the pandemic (thank you, Senator Susan Collins, for asking). The answer was the garbage word salad we've all come to expect. I wish just once Congress would say "not a penny more until you account for all the money we've already given you".
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I'd love to see the Pentagon answer that question.
 
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I’ve met a lot of cops, in my experience, they are on average more likely to engage in illegal behavior than the average civilian.
I have been propositioned to illegally take big game fir them, as they didn’t have the time off to hunt and “needed the meat”. I’ve seen them get in their truck and drive home after a dozen beers. I’ve had them offer to buy guns without doing it legally. The list goes on and on.

As a percentage, I think there are more bad apples than the general population. But that’s just my experience.
 
SkyDog58 said:
I'd love to see the Pentagon answer that question.
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Exactly. My dad worked for United Airlines. He got involved in some kind of project with the military and was just shocked at the waste. As an engineer who was always looking for better, cheaper, and more efficient ways of doing things, he was just so demoralized by the experience.
 
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