Taking off with a plane on downwind

Witmo said:
I've seen even worse. I've seen pilots taxi into position and then wait for an IFR clearance/release on a different frequency at an uncontrolled field-- Absolutely no consideration for anyone else.
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Those people need to be dragged from their planes and given an extremely close haircut with the spinning prop/blades.
 
EdFred said:
Some people do a final DG/Trim check, and those people are sometimes slow.
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People sure do, but it makes no sense to me. Perhaps verify the TC shows a skid, AI shows level, and DG (and mag compass) turns to runway heading, while turning. But stopped on the runway?

I got instructed to hold for IFR spacing yesterday at Oakland, but at least it was behind the hold short line (there IS a parallel runway available for arriving traffic, but I still don't like sitting there).
 
Witmo said:
I've seen even worse. I've seen pilots taxi into position and then wait for an IFR clearance/release on a different frequency at an uncontrolled field-- Absolutely no consideration for anyone else.
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Fargin' iceholes.

I do that in the run-up area, like any sane pilot.
 
MAKG1 said:
People sure do, but it makes no sense to me. Perhaps verify the TC shows a skid, AI shows level, and DG (and mag compass) turns to runway heading, while turning. But stopped on the runway?

I got instructed to hold for IFR spacing yesterday at Oakland, but at least it was behind the hold short line (there IS a parallel runway available for arriving traffic, but I still don't like sitting there).
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If done right it takes literally a second. Check heading, check trim, throttles full.
 
EdFred said:
If done right it takes literally a second. Check heading, check trim, throttles full.
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Is there an advantage to doing that on the runway vs. doing it as part of the before takeoff checklist? I check the trim as part of the before takeoff checklist. Also, as I roll onto the runway, I verify that the runway number I am looking at is the same runway number I was cleared to takeoff from, I double check that against my DG, then I roll out onto the centerline make sure I am straight, then punch it. The plane never stops moving through this process.
 
azpilot said:
Is there an advantage to doing that on the runway vs. doing it as part of the before takeoff checklist? I check the trim as part of the before takeoff checklist. Also, as I roll onto the runway, I verify that the runway number I am looking at is the same runway number I was cleared to takeoff from, I double check that against my DG, then I roll out onto the centerline make sure I am straight, then punch it. The plane never stops moving through this process.
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So you only ever check something once? There are many things I double check.
 
EdFred said:
So you only ever check something once? There are many things I double check.
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That's a fair point. The checklist that I learned on had check of the DG prior to contacting ground, and then again at the before takeoff checklist. But the trim was only checked once.

I guess it's not really that big of a deal, as long as it doesn't cause a delay.
 
eman1200 said:
I have learned to 'communicate' with people in the pattern......"oh, you're on downwind, are you comfortable with me departing now, no delay?". it works wonders.
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Where I learned (KTTA), if you did this on a Saturday morning you'd never get out. There would be 5 in the pattern and you went when no one was on final. Which led to a lot of people calling final when they're still on downwind, so you just have to go.
 
bflynn said:
Where I learned (KTTA), if you did this on a Saturday morning you'd never get out. There would be 5 in the pattern and you went when no one was on final. Which led to a lot of people calling final when they're still on downwind, so you just have to go.
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Fortunately, calling final is not what confers right-of-way. Being on final is what does it.
 
Witmo said:
I've seen even worse. I've seen pilots taxi into position and then wait for an IFR clearance/release on a different frequency at an uncontrolled field-- Absolutely no consideration for anyone else.
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There's been a lot of discussion of 'line-up-and-wait' being an unsafe practice at non-towered airports even if it's just to wait for a landing plane to clear the runway, but there still seem to be people who do it.
 
I think some here may be confusing effiency before takeoff with rushing.
 
At my home airport, uncontrolled but often lots of pattern traffic on nice flying-weather weekends, we normally always follow the "traffic on final always has the runway" rule, this happened to me a few weeks ago as I'd just finished my runup and heard a local Skymaster pilot make his radio call turning from downwind to base...
Me: Valley traffic, RV tango xray holding short for traffic, runway 13
Him: Neal if you're ready to roll, go for it
Me: You're almost on final, I can wait.
Him: You're in an RV, I'm in a Skymaster, you'll be 100' off the ground long before I ever get to the fence, besides I want to watch you takeoff and climb.
Me: Valley traffic, RV tango xray immediate takeoff runway 13.
Me: (after about a 150' takeoff roll and climbing like a rocket ship since it was cold and the density altitude was negative 800') Valley traffic, RV tango xray departing the pattern, right hand turnout to the southwest.
Him: Valley traffic, Skymaster 7 alpha charlie short final 13 full stop, damn I gotta get me one of those RVs
:p
 
Palmpilot said:
Fortunately, calling final is not what confers right-of-way. Being on final is what does it.
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And ROW is irrelevant if there's enough room to go.

If you're going to ask the other pilot if you have room, you might as well just wait. If you ask, he can either say no or yes. If he says no, you're obviously not going to go (else why'd you ask?), and if he say yes, it's still on you (and if you knew you had room, why'd you ask?).
 
Palmpilot said:
There's been a lot of discussion of 'line-up-and-wait' being an unsafe practice at non-towered airports even if it's just to wait for a landing plane to clear the runway, but there still seem to be people who do it.
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I see a fair amount of corporate jet jocks doing this. Especially in the east/southeast.
 
Palmpilot said:
There's been a lot of discussion of 'line-up-and-wait' being an unsafe practice at non-towered airports even if it's just to wait for a landing plane to clear the runway, but there still seem to be people who do it.
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Assuming you are going to take off as soon as the other plane is clear, what's unsafe about it? At an untowered field, I'll taxi into position as soon as the plane ahead starts rolling as long as there's room in the pattern.
 
Witmo said:
I've seen even worse. I've seen pilots taxi into position and then wait for an IFR clearance/release on a different frequency at an uncontrolled field-- Absolutely no consideration for anyone else.
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I don't think I've ever seen anyone do that.
 
Lindberg said:
Totally different situation. And I saw no reasons in that thread that would apply in the scenario I mentioned.
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I just didn't want to hijack this thread.
 
somorris said:
Interesting thread. A couple years ago, a C-172 was on downwind and I went ahead and took off. As I was rolling he announced he was "going around, aircraft on the runway." I have felt kind of bad ever since then, although now and at the time, I felt he had plenty of time go get in behind me. It is good to see other pilots who would have done the same thing.
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That guy was a jackhole. Delete from memory, you were good.
 
UngaWunga said:
Why not? Were' already to page 4 discussing a non-problem. Keep it going.
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Ya, once you get to the second page, it's impossible to stay on topic. I'm the OP. Hijack away.
 
azpilot said:
Ya, once you get to the second page, it's impossible to stay on topic. I'm the OP. Hijack away.
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so this one time, in band camp, this guy was on the taxiway....
 
Jeff Oslick said:
I think you may have just mistook the tone of the 182 pilot. It was entirely appropriate, if he felt more comfortable about it, for him to extend his downwind for a little bit until he was sure you going to be clear of the runway. It was fine for you to depart ahead of him, though I would make it clear on my call that I was "rolling for immediate takeoff, runway X", so he knew that you knew not to delay departure.
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Sounds like he was extending you a courtesy by extending his downwind to avoid putting pressure on you, especially if your a low time pilot. If I could not have seen him clearly , I would have waited for him , if I could see him downwind , had already done my run up I would have quickly turned onto the runway and been gone, announcing my takeoff as I started moving.
 
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