"Take down this phone number..."

Weekend Warrior

Weekend Warrior

Pre-takeoff checklist
Joined
Jul 29, 2019
Messages
425
Display Name
Display name:
Mr Madman
I had the weirdest exchange with ATC today while IFR.

The weather was a low ceiling day, so I took the day off work to do some flying and stay IFR current. I filed for a short flight from my home field to a uncontrolled field nearby and took off without incident. As I approached my destination, the controller asked what approach I'd like. I requested the full (with hold) non-precision approach alpha, and I also asked if I could do a couple of turns in the hold (since I was flying to stay current, I figured I'd check that box too). Controller said that was fine, and she just requested I let her know when I was inbound to start the approach on my last hold lap. As I got near the IAF/charted hold, a male controller came on, and asked me to descend, which I did without a problem as I over flew the VOR. Then this is where it gets weird (at least weird and/or confusing to me).
Just as I start my first turn back towards the VOR, the controller calls me on the air and says, "I've got a number for you to copy, when you're ready. Sorry buddy." I tell him to standby until I straighten back inbound, then say to go ahead. He gives me the number, and again ends with an apology, "I'm sorry." He then says to make sure I call within five minutes of landing, clears me for the approach (even though I was told to let them know when I was inbound), and approves the frequency change.
All the way to landing, I'm fuming: what the hell did I do?! I get on the ground, and I call the number. I say my tail number, and they respond, "Ok, closing your IFR flight plan. Goodbye." I say, "Wait wait wait, I think somebody wanted to talk to me." The guy who answers the phone says he'll give me to ATC. A second guy comes on (who I recognized by voice that it was the controller) and he says, "Oh, I said sorry because I couldn't cancel your IFR flight plan in the air."

WTF?

When I was given the number (seemingly out of the blue), I thought I had busted something. The two "I'm sorry" statements really convinced me I was in trouble!
 
Last edited:
Weekend Warrior said:
I had the weirdest exchange with ATC today while IFR.

The weather was a low ceiling day, so I took the day off work to do some flying and stay IFR current. I filed for a short flight from my home field to a uncontrolled field nearby and took off without incident. As I approached my destination, the controller asked what approach I'd like. I requested the full (with hold) non-precision approach alpha, and I also asked if I could do a couple of turns in the hold (since I was flying to stay current, I figured I'd check that box too). Controller said that was fine, and she just requested I let her know when I was inbound to start the approach on my last hold lap. As I got near the IAF/charted hold, a male controller came on, and asked me to descend, which I did without a problem as I over flew the VOR. Then this is where it gets weird (at least weird and/or confusing to me).
Just as I start my turn back towards the VOR, the controller calls me on the air and says, "I've got a number for you to copy, when your ready. Sorry buddy." I tell him to standby until I straighten back inbound, then say to go ahead. He gives me the number, and again ends with an apology, "I'm sorry." He then says to make sure I call within five minutes of landing, clears me for the approach (even though I was told to let them know when I was inbound), and approves the frequency change.
All the way to landing, I'm fuming: what the hell did I do?! I get on the ground, and I call the number. I say my tail number, and they respond, "Ok, closing your IFR flight plan. Goodbye." I say, "Wait wait wait, I think somebody wanted to talk to me." The guy who answers the phone says he'll give me to ATC. A second guy comes on (who I recognized by voice that it was the controller) and he says, "Oh, I said sorry because I couldn't cancel your IFR flight plan in the air."

WTF?

When I was given the number (seemingly out of the blue), I thought I had busted something. The two "I'm sorry" statements really convinced me I was in trouble!
Click to expand...

Lol, did you tell him you thought it was bad news???
 
Geez. I bet that made it hard to concentrate on the approach. I guess that's better than a deviation though.
 
The "within 5 minutes" kind of makes sense for an IFR cancellation call. But none of the rest of what the controller said in the air does. Instead of using the standard "(call sign) report cancellation of IFR this frequency or..." language from the 7110.65 ATC bible, he used language which, while still non-standard and missing pieces, definitely sounded like he was giving a Brasher warning.

I'd try to find the audio on Live ATC and if it confirms all that, consider giving the supervisor a call.

No wonder you look like that in your avatar!! :D
 
Agreed, call the supervisor to discuss. The controller might need retraining to follow their prescribed language better. "Cancel with me or on this phone number" is what I'd expect. Anything else (non-standard phraseology) might create confusion and tie up the frequency further.
Be nice about it when you call, of course. Most controllers are actually cool folks.
 
Personally I would leave it alone...
Aviation is a small world. Stay on the good side of everyone you can. Pilot, controller, fueled, maintenance... One never knows when you may need to call in a favor.
 
Kritchlow said:
Personally I would leave it alone...
Aviation is a small world. Stay on the good side of everyone you can. Pilot, controller, fueled, maintenance... One never knows when you may need to call in a favor.
Click to expand...

Yeah, sounds like he was just being friendly, I'm thinking when you told him he scared you he figured it out. Or if you want to call, see if you can find it first just to be sure you didn't miss something.
 
Could've asked "Pilot Deviation?" ... heard someone call it a "Basher" as well (not sure why)
 
Last week, after the third “I apologize” and corrected instructions, I heard a pilot respond “take down this number and call when you get home”. Lots of laughter from that one.
 
midlifeflyer said:
The "within 5 minutes" kind of makes sense for an IFR cancellation call. But none of the rest of what the controller said in the air does. Instead of using the standard "(call sign) report cancellation of IFR this frequency or..." language from the 7110.65 ATC bible, he used language which, while still non-standard and missing pieces, definitely sounded like he was giving a Brasher warning.

I'd try to find the audio on Live ATC and if it confirms all that, consider giving the supervisor a call.

No wonder you look like that in your avatar!! :D
Click to expand...
I considered that, but when I got back to my home field, a fellow aviator pointed out that I was talking to a newly-consolidated approach. Here in the mid-west they have recently consolidated several class C approaches, and there have been some minor problems with the consolidation. I think I can live with the error in understanding while they get more comfortable. Plus, as mentioned, from my phone call he now knows I thought I was in trouble, and he said “Sorry” for that too.
I’m over it now, but I was getting ready to call an aviation attorney before calling him.
 
There was a guy... that was an FO on a part 135 flight. The captain was trying really hard to land at the wrong airport and would not listen to the very young and inexperienced copilot. So it just so happened they landed and taxied to the ramp at a towered field without a clearance...

So sitting on the ramp engines running the captain is obviously aware a major mistake has been made as evidence by the passenger terminal, some airline jets and a control tower. So he looks to the fo and somewhat rhetorically asks “well what now.”

The FO, feeling very inadequate, says “well... we certainly should not takeoff without a clearance and we are at the wrong airport.”

So they get the ATIS, call ground and get a clearance to an airport only about 10 miles away. They taxi out, takeoff and fly to the correct airport without a peep from ATC about the no radio arrival.

The captain at this point is very nervous so when getting the freq. changed approved call he asks for a phone number...

So. A call is made to ATC. He eventually gets on the phone with tower at the airport in question... they never saw the airplane land or taxi to the GA ramp... there is mutual agreement on the phone everyone learned a lot and no paperwork was required... it was a Sunday and there may have been a popular sporting event that only happens once a year in progress. The controller knew the score ...

You just never know what will happen when human beings are involved. Good chance it will be a hot mess.

Not sure why but your story made me remember this story I heard one day a long time ago.
 
Glad it worked out and I absolutely understand how errors can be made bu human beings. But consolidation is not a very good excuse for completely nonstandard language when the standard exists and is used every single day everywhere in the US.
 
Does your field have a clearance delivery frequency on the ground?? If not then if you were IMC to min at nontowered field would not be able to cancel In the air and would expect a number right? Sounds like the controller could have said it better and caused some unnecessary angst.
 
That is a weird one alright.

Here in the southwest it is not unusual at all to get ''call this number to cancel IFR'' before as well as a few ''call this number to get clearance when ready to depart''.
 
midlifeflyer said:
Glad it worked out and I absolutely understand how errors can be made bu human beings. But consolidation is not a very good excuse for completely nonstandard language when the standard exists and is used every single day everywhere in the US.
Click to expand...

So the problem becomes, if it didn’t start with “Possible pilot deviation...” do you bother to call?

I suspect it would be a bad idea not to...
 
It's pretty standard to be offered a phone number so that you can cancel your IFR flight plan when going into an uncontrolled field. But, as others have said, if he left out the phrase, "to cancel IFR...", it sounds bad. I am with those who suggest to just let it go.
 
Call the government to complain about the government? What could go wrong?
 
Sounds like the 'Ernest Gann light a match under your nose at a critical phase of flight trick' to do that to you while on an approach in imc.
 
The controller may not be a pilot - might not "get it" on the implications we assume when asked to "call this number". I bet you are correct; he intended to be helpful . . .
 
The controller just forgot the part about mentioning that it was for IFR cancellation where you can't cancel in the air. They would have given the Brasher Warning over the radio if it was an issue.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top