Tailwheel or Instrument training?

Will Kumley

Will Kumley

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Will
It looks like my dreams of owning an airplane are not going to come to fruition anytime soon. So now I'm trying to decide how to spend some of the money I had set aside for an airplane purchase. I would like to eventually get both a tailwheel endorsement and an instrument rating. Which would you choose first and why? I've got roughly 140 hours PIC time and enjoy renting airplanes for scenic lunch flights. I understand IFR will require more time and commitment to achieve than a tailwheel endorsement, but if you had to choose, which would you do first?
 
Will Kumley said:
It looks like my dreams of owning an airplane are not going to come to fruition anytime soon. So now I'm trying to decide how to spend some of the money I had set aside for an airplane purchase. I would like to eventually get both a tailwheel endorsement and an instrument rating. Which would you choose first and why? I've got roughly 140 hours PIC time and enjoy renting airplanes for scenic lunch flights. I understand IFR will require more time and commitment to achieve than a tailwheel endorsement, but if you had to choose, which would you do first?
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I would, and did, choose tailwheel. But they're really not comparable. A tailwheel endorsement should take a few hours. Instrument will take a written test, a bunch of instruction, a bunch of practice, and a checkride. It will also reset your BFR.

Tailwheel will wake up your feet, but it's really just a novelty unless you're going to fly tailwheel planes. And you won't be proficient just from getting the endorsement.

Instrument will lower your insurance rates (airplane and life).
 
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If you are flying for fun then the answer is neither - IFR is a chore rather than fun and flying a taildragger is like trying to prove that you can drive an inherently unstable car which in turn will supposedly make you a better driver overall when you move on to driving a normal and stable car … or something like that.
 
Will Kumley said:
It looks like my dreams of owning an airplane are not going to come to fruition anytime soon. So now I'm trying to decide how to spend some of the money I had set aside for an airplane purchase. I would like to eventually get both a tailwheel endorsement and an instrument rating. Which would you choose first and why? I've got roughly 140 hours PIC time and enjoy renting airplanes for scenic lunch flights. I understand IFR will require more time and commitment to achieve than a tailwheel endorsement, but if you had to choose, which would you do first?
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IR will make you a better pilot in the air. Tailwheel endorsement will make you a better pilot on takeoffs and landings. They are complementary skills.
 
I would say it mostly depends on what you want to do with it, and also what you'll have access to after you earn either. You're more likely to find a plane to rent and practice instruments, but if you have a way to keep flying tailwheel after you get the endorsement, it might open up some fun flying.
 
Every cfi I mention taildragger to gets really excited.

Mention IFR and get responses like “it’s a grind”

have you looked for a club or partnership instead of sole ownership?
 
Keep in mind that it takes time and money to remain proficient in either one after the initial endorsement or rating. Do you have plans to keep doing one or the other, or both?

it probably wouldn’t hurt to do the instrument first so you can use the tailwheel endorsement time to learn how to look out the windshield again.
 
What you're outlining are two completely different tasks, in respect to what they provide and what they require to accomplish.

It's like comparing apples and televisions.

One allows you to fly cool tailwheel aircraft.
The other allows you to get to/from where you're going and get your family home.

Planning to knock about the pattern on the cheap?
Planning to head to Sonoma for a long wine-getaway weekend?

Totally different questions.
 
If it were me, I go for the thrill of the experience. Instrument rating can be hard work. Even more so if you don't consider yourself to be on the fast track to an airline career. If you're lucky you'll do your instrument rating with an operator that runs a tight operation, has great aircraft availability and you'll get a great CFI who'll stay with you throughout and the same CFI will be there to shake your hand when you return with your new rating. =>>>>>THAT IS NOT THE NORM!!!

Go get the TW endorsement. Better yet, go get the whole package deal, and adventure week in somewhere like Arizona, Idaho or Alaska learning to fly a tailwheel aircraft in the bush. Not only can you get the TW endorsement, It will make you a more confident pilot. And, it'll be memories you'll have to cherish the rest of your life!

I did the "Bush Pilot" course at Alaska Floats & Skis back in 2014. I've also done over 10 flight hours of aerobatic instruction, 5 hours at Sean Tucker's school in King City, CA and more than 5 hours at Patty Wagstaff's school in St. Augustine, Fl. Absolutely loved every second of it!

https://bush-air.com/school.htm
https://mountaincanyonflying.com/
https://alaskafloats.com/
 
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2 seat aircraft suck for comfort and that’s what are generally the only tailwheel rentals available.
 
Years after I got my t/w endorsement, I got my IR. I then promptly bought a 140 and had to re-learn tailwheel flying.

Skills atrophy quickly. Tailwheels are hard to rent, so if you're not going to buy one, I wouldn't bother with getting the endorsement.
 
GeorgeC said:
Skills atrophy quickly. Tailwheels are hard to rent, so if you're not going to buy one, I wouldn't bother with getting the endorsement.
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I agree with this other than the "don't bother."

I would get the one firsts I expect to use.

I use my instrument rating regularly.

I have my tailwheel endorsement but don't have access to one. As you say, tailwheel skills atrophy and different tailwheel aircraft can handle very differently so it might as well be a type rating rather than a mere endorsement (joking). OTOH, the lessons learned landing them can greatly improve your nosegear landing skill set.
 
Maybe my brain is wired differently but I'd go for the instrument rating. I had my sports pilot lic and decided to get my ppl thinking it would make me a better prepared pilot. I got my ppl and now training for the instrument....again...because I am thinking it would make me a more prepared pilot and maybe save my life some day.
 
Do both. If you were saving for buying and airplane, you should have enough money to do both.

Or you were REALLY FAR AWAY from being able to afford an airplane.

Heck, my first annual would pay for TW checkout and almost have the flying to instrument rating.
 
If you don't intend to do flying in the near future for which you need one of those credentials, then don't worry about getting the credential. Take a lesson in a tailwheel airplane. If you find that fun, take another one. Maybe take some basic acro or spin training. Get a dual flight in a glider. Once every few months, have an instructor work with you on instrument flying or some other skills, like commercial maneuvers, that is not necessarily on a straight path to a rating. A couple years from now, you may find, based on these experiences, that you have a different idea about what type of flying you want to do and what type of airplane you eventually want to own.
 
After my contribution, I've been reading the further responses.

110% on the atrophy of skills.

At least with the instrument rating

  • It's easy to find IR-rated aircraft to rent.
  • You live in Coastal California, and your regular use of the IR is almost guaranteed.
  • If you haven't flown IR for a few weeks, it's generally relatively easy to find a safety pilot and put on some foggles.
It's not so easy to rent a tailwheel aircraft, and there's no simulation for it.
 
Tailwheel credentials are a bit of a cult now, probably because the FAA added it as an endorsement thirty or so years ago, but it's really not such a big deal. Getting the endorsement is pretty easy and relatively inexpensive, but you can't do much with it. The instrument rating is the opposite and you CAN do a lot with it under the right circumstances, but if those circumstances aren't in the near future I wouldn't bother with it now. Instrument finesse decays fairly quickly. A seaplane rating is also fun and something different, and at least that has the effect of a Flight Review.
 
Instrument. Tailwheel is an endorsement. It will take what it takes, but it's a few flights. Instrument is an add on, but it's closer in scale to your private.
 
What are you going to fly after you get the endorsement/rating?
Don’t bother with either if you aren’t going to fly it.
 
An instrument rating has benefits even if you don't use it; learning why atc does a lot of the things it does, flying with precision, navigation, and a LOT about weather. All things that would benefit even a vfr pilot and make them safer, which is why you get an insurance discount even if you're not current. I find it extremely rewarding. I'd rather go fly on a 500 OVC day than a SKC day, but I'm a weirdo.

That said, it is a commitment on the order of getting your private, both time wise and financially. Tailwheel can be knocked out in a few weekends for a fraction of the cost.
 
First instrument, then tailwheel.
 
I guess it depends where you are, but there are several places around here to rent tail wheel aircraft.
 
My local FBO has a Citabria 7GCBC for rent. Also have a damaged 8KCAB Super Decathlon that will be rentable when the get it airworthy.
 
I did both my Instrument Rating and Tailwheel endorsement around the same time. Both were challenging in their own right and improved my skills. Since then, I've needed to fly in IMC a handful of times to accomplish a flight. I've never needed to fly a taildragger.
 
Great points from everyone. Yes, I can afford both. The question I need to answer myself is if I have the time to commit to an instrument rating as deep down I know I'll use it more. When I got my Private cert, the school I learned at had a sitdown ground school which I prefer to learning by plowing through a book. The local flight schools don't offer any form of groundschool for IFR and prefer you show up already past the test and ready to fly. I have the Rod Machado book on instrument flying but haven't been able to get through it as his humor wears thin by the middle of the book.
 
I thought about it after I posted, what type of flying do you like to do? Personally I prefer cross country, which makes an instrument rating valuable. Some people like to stay in the pattern, in which case the TD endorsement would be more fun.

Reference the Rod Machado books, I totally agree, I've never made it all the way through one. Check at your local community college. Some of them have ground school classes in a semester format. They're cheap too.
 
For me, I've often flown 500+ hours a year with work and maybe used the Instrument 5-6 times a year, since most of our photo flying is strictly VFR. OTOH, I use the tailwheel for fun several times that, and also enjoy working with students when I have time. Most of it is strictly an individual mission thing. I can say that flying the Luscombe just before sunset is a lot more fun than most instrument flights, although it's always a good feeling to break out on final lined up just right, but most of the time, the minutes or hours before breaking out aren't strictly enjoyable for me.
I think a whole lot of the tailwheel crowd like to go fly for fun, whereas most of the instrument guys are doing it so they don't have to wait for one reason or another.
 
Tailwheel endorsement expands your ownership options.

And it may help clarify your mission. When I started PPL, I wanted a Bo or Cherokee 6/300 because I'd need to carry a host of friends or family, etc etc.

What I actually do is day XC hops to build time. Will take the wife for lunch if the air is smooth. So I bought a two-seat Experimental tailwheel that's IFR equipped. The wags on POA say to buy your last airplane first, and their last airplanes seem to be low and slow, simple and cheap to operate. 5-7 gph of mogas beats the pants off 15 gph avgas, and as a new pilot, what's the rush to get somewhere while you build time?

I'd do the IFR training later in the plane you'll own. It's hard enough to schedule an instructor, rental plane, yourself and weather.

Owning takes the rental hassle out and you're training in the plane you regularly fly, not something different subbed in for the day or not there because the last renter brought it back broken.

Have Avemco, no discount for IR.
 
snu164 said:
I thought about it after I posted, what type of flying do you like to do? Personally I prefer cross country, which makes an instrument rating valuable. Some people like to stay in the pattern, in which case the TD endorsement would be more fun.
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Or you could fly cross country in a VFR taildragger, which is more fun yet.
 
Instrument rating, hands down if you have to choose. Unless you just like tooling around in the pattern. If you go places, then get an instrument rating. In terms of cost, the tailwheel rating is probably insignificant compared to the instrument rating, so why not do both at the same time?
 
texasclouds said:
Balloon rating is where it’s at….
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I have avoiding taking a ride in a balloon. As I know I will want the rating. And if you thinking finding a tailwheel airplane to rent is hard .......
 
Pinecone said:
Like my friend in FL, who bought a Cub from San Diego. And flew it literally across the country.
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While I’ve never been east of middle Tennessee VFR that I can remember (edit: I picked up a 182 in North Carolina that I had to fly VFR back to Minnesota), a couple thousand hours of VFR cross country flying has gotten me most other places in the US, including Alaska. I’ve had to rent a car and drive exactly twice to get home from a VFR trip on time, which, coincidentally, is the same number of times I’ve had to do it on an IFR trip, with far less than 200 hours of personal IFR flying. But you do have to be better at VFR flying than most people choose to be.
 
Keep in mind that the instrument rating has a cost of remaining current, perhaps even a much higher cost of remaining proficient. There's no question that some of the IR experience makes you a better pilot, but actually using the rating is a little more complex. Yes, the same can be said about a tailwheel endorsement, but the costs are lot, lot lower.
 
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