Tailwheel endorsement, typical time

jbDC9 said:
Dang, it’s a wonder I’m still alive, or at least haven’t ground looped yet! My tailwheel checkout was 1 hour of dual in a Champ, summer 1987, as a new CFI. After that, I was off and running flying taildraggers every chance I got; luckily, this was prior to needing the endorsement which came about in 1991. In the ensuing 31 years (damn, I’m getting old) I’ve logged 2300+ hours in taildraggers with no ground loops or scraped wingtips. Knock on wood...
Click to expand...
Thank you for posting this. I'm sitting here reading how much time it takes and can't believe it! Before that, I would have said just a couple hours, no more than five at the most, assuming wheel landings weren't attempted. The key is to practice ground handling maneuvers using differential braking and rudder control, rather than log lots of air time. One hour air time after that for a CFI seems about right. Wheel landings? I'm not sure they can be "taught", despite the teacher taking credit for it. I think students just finally figure it out for themselves somehow.
 
Haven't flown a TW since the early 70's, but looking at my logbook, i found it took 4.5 hours to get signed off. (loads and loads of landings during those hours.) It was a champ and enormously fun to fly.
 
dtuuri said:
Thank you for posting this. I'm sitting here reading how much time it takes and can't believe it! Before that, I would have said just a couple hours, no more than five at the most, assuming wheel landings weren't attempted. The key is to practice ground handling maneuvers using differential braking and rudder control, rather than log lots of air time. One hour air time after that for a CFI seems about right. Wheel landings? I'm not sure they can be "taught", despite the teacher taking credit for it. I think students just finally figure it out for themselves somehow.
Click to expand...
...and since wheel landings are required for the endorsement, how much time would you assume this figuring out by the student would add to the “couple of hours, no more than five at the most”?
 
Truth of the matter is we all have to learn it in a different way, because we all work different. A part of it that comes naturally to some, is a challenge to another and visa versa... I didn't find the concept difficult, in fact turf I felt it was only negligibly different than the 172... Hard surface took me a minute to get used to just in terms of finesse and because I was so bound and determined to not be a typical nosewheel pilot transitioning with lazy feet I started off not lazy on my feet but overcorrecting to beat the band! The other challenge I have had is to not fixate on my footwork, I've been so focused on that at times I have forgotten to dump aileron into a crosswind because my brain is so foot focused. Now the next guy may have no problem remembering that basic skill and may not overcorrect but under-correct thinking the plane will straighten itself out from nosewheel days... We all are natural at some things and must train different bad tendencies out in other ways...

I still feel much of this could be eliminated by learning in a TW first! There wouldn't be all the relearning to do to transition to a nosewheel, or not near as much... If we learned from day one with a TW on a hard surface we wouldn't get that foolish notion that the machine would help us keep it straight in any way shape or form and would with a blank slate of a pilots mind learn that. When we start nosewheel first we have to unlearn some things to learn others in a TW, the reverse would not be nearly the transition. Nosewheel would be a piece of cake after that and we would be better nosewheel pilots without ever even knowing any different...
 
MauleSkinner said:
...and since wheel landings are required for the endorsement, how much time would you assume this figuring out by the student would add to the “couple of hours, no more than five at the most”?
Click to expand...
Well then that explains it right there. The last time I checked out somebody no "endorsement" was required. In the case of my younger brother, I threw up my hands trying to teach him how to wheel land and sent him off on his first solo cross country in my Citabria. When he returned he told me he mastered wheel landings at Butler, PA. Said it was easier to concentrate when I wasn't talking to him. I checked the prop, wingtips and tires to make sure.
 
dtuuri said:
Well then that explains it right there. The last time I checked out somebody no "endorsement" was required. In the case of my younger brother, I threw up my hands trying to teach him how to wheel land and sent him off on his first solo cross country in my Citabria. When he returned he told me he mastered wheel landings at Butler, PA. Said it was easier to concentrate when I wasn't talking to him. I checked the prop, wingtips and tires to make sure.
Click to expand...

I have experienced that too, not with wheel landings but other things I have been taught and did it okay enough but once on my own was able to take that base knowledge and bring it all together without much conscious thought. Sometimes having the teacher watch can be a subconscious pressure that keeps us relaxing enough to put it all together not just "okay" but "well"...
 
I think I got my TW endorsement in about 4 hours, could be 4.5. But it was pretty much Landings, and takeoffs. most landings were to a full stop with taxi back. and very few were without a x-wind. The last 6 or so were 90* to the runway, so we landed both directions, for x-wind right, and left. Last landing, I hadda keep it on the mains to the last turn off at the very end of the runway.
 
Thanks for all of your responses. Some of you had very little training before going solo in a TW airplane. That was also my experience.

A friend of mine who is an IA had just completed a rebuild of a 2-33 sailplane & wanted to test fly it. Problem was he need a towpilot. This was way back before TW endorsements were required. He asked me to tow him up in his 150HP Champion. I explained to him that I had never flown a TW airplane. At the time I probably had around 2,000 total with half of that instructing. He said "I've seen you fly, you won't have any problems".

The takeoff was easy. I brought the tail up & just tracked straight down the runway with the rudder. Now the landing was the problem. We had a 9,000' runway that was 200' wide so I figured I would just do the takeoff in reverse. So I came in & just flew down the runway & slowly eased the mains on the pavement. One the mains hit I applied a slight bit of forward pressure, kept the wings level & kept the nose straight with the rudder. Wheel landings.

I ended up towing him four times as there was no lift for the sailplane. My legs were so worn out after that fourth landing I could hardly walk. They were rubber.

It turned out alright but I would never recommend anyone trying this at home.
 
I was signed off in 8.sumthing in practicality Friday, that was knocking 4 years of rust off and one lesson was a burger run more than a focued 2 hour lesson...
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top