Tailwheel Endorsement: J3 Cub or C-140?

J-3 Cub or C-140?

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Camden Walters

Filing Flight Plan
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CamdenW
I’m considering getting my tailwheel endorsement for the fun of it/experience/improving my overall skill set. I have about 700 hours, the majority in a 182 and 206.

One local school has a 1946 J3 Cub available for this, another has a 1949 Cessna 140. Cost being roughly equal, which would you recommend? I would be interested in hearing from both those who have learned/flown in both types, as well as CFIs who have instructed in both types.
 
The 140 is maybe a bit easier with better visibility and a bit higher landing speed which keeps the controls more effective longer.

But I would probably recommend the Cub just for the notalgia and you will probably learn more in part due to the reduced visibility and lower speeds. I actually find many faster planes like the 140 and Citabia’s are actually easier to land than slower planes like the Cubs and Champs.

Brian
CFIIIG/ASEL
 
If you plan to rent one of the aircraft after earning the endorsement I’d do it in that one. Otherwise, if you are only pursuing the endorsement I don’t think it matters much. Both aircraft should be fairly tame.
 
Cub! Then you can say you have flown the famous Piper J3, and stand extra tall.

Of course, I am just saying this to upgrade the bragging rights for my J 3 logbook entries.

My initial training was in J 3's, and I found them very easy to fly. After obtaining my PPL in a Cessna 150, I flew a J 3, and it was still great fun. Be sure to do some edge of stall slow flight before your first landing. The quivery feel, and change in airflow sounds are your guide to when to level a foot off the runway, and it will just set down smoothly.
 
I did my primary training in a cub, about 10 years ago. Wouldn't trade that experience for any other kind of flying. To me, it'll give you a better appreciate for wind, for ground handling, for slips, for stalls, and for flying without looking at the instruments. My advice would be to go into it with the goal of learning how to fly the aircraft, and let the endorsement be secondary...sounds like you have that already, though.
 
The J3 is so docile and easy to fly, I don't think you'll learn as much. If you're just doing it to check a box, that might not matter.
 
I got mine in a Decathlon, but flying the J3 was some of the most fun flying I have done.
 
DUH, the real answer is ........

FLY BOTH.

I did my tailwheel in a Citabria mainly, but also had some Super Cub time by the time I got the hours to rent.

Cub is stick, tandem solo from the rear. C-140 is yoke, side by side. Cub you can fly with the door/window open and wave to people on the ground.

Both are FUN.
 
If your going to get your tailwheel endorsement and never fly one again go for the Cub. A 140 might spoil you.
 
The Cessna will be slightly more familar to you with your past experience, side by side seating versus tandem seating in the Cub. If you're thinking about renting afterwards then wives or girfriends usually prefer to sit side by side with their sweeties.
If you fly the Cub then fly it from both seats for the experience, although soloing is from the back seat. Flying it with the door open is the ultimate in fun on a summer evening.
The Cessna is a little heavier and faster than the Cub, although both are very light and are much more affected by winds than what you're used to. You will need to be aware of the winds and what they are doing to you and the plane at all times. The Cub will feel more like levitating than climbing after takeoff.
Both will be more fun and in their element on grass, fly them like it's still the 1940's.
Both planes are excellent trainers and will do the job of teaching you basic flying and fun.

CFII & MEI.
 
Back in 1969 when I started learning to fly J3's were still the norm and you could find them all over the place but in these days of $35,000 Cubs you don't see many available for rent or training. So I'd say take advantage of the availability. Despite the visibility issues the Cub is a good trainer because when sitting in the back seat you'll suddenly understand what that whole "seat of the pants" thing was all about. You'll both feel and see every pitch and yaw change and although they are "easy" to fly they aren't that easy to fly gracefully so when you finally master the cantankerous beast you'll feel an elevated sense of accomplishment.
 
DFH65 said:
Given those choices I would chose a Champ. :)

Seriously J3 if those are the only 2.
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Did mine in a Champ but would love to have some J-3 time in the logbook ...
 
Champ. I liked it much more than the J-3’s that I’ve flown on both wheels and floats. But since it’s not an option, I’d choose the C-140.

Never did like flying from the back seat.

Cheers
 
I'm not really the targeted person for an answer here...I never did master having the little wheel in the back and have ZERO J-3 time
I do have time in a champ, as well as a little in a C-120 and also a C-140
I'd probably choose the J-3
I recon if you can get comfortable with the S turning and sitting in the back seat...flaring without forward visibility...then it's no biggie to transition to a C-120/140...a 7AC...or anything similar...but going the other way around probably easy enough...but not quite as easy.
 
X3 Skier said:
Champ. I liked it much more than the J-3’s that I’ve flown on both wheels and floats. But since it’s not an option, I’d choose the C-140.

Never did like flying from the back seat.

Cheers
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I agree I actually prefer to the fly the Champ over the Cub, much larger cockpit, much better visibility. Easier to 3 point well, although admittedly I have flown serveral versions/upgraded J3's but not a stock 65hp one, closest was probably a 90hp J-3, also taught a guy to fly a 100hp J-3, and a another a 100hp Light sport cub as well as a number of super cubs. So perhaps with a 65 or 85 HP engine it is easier to get the tail on the ground for a 3 point.

But like I said before given the choice with any other criteria like know what I am training to fly, I would recommend the J-3 for initial Tailwheel endorsement, probably even over the Champ, even though I prefer to fly the Champ.

I find flying with the door open in the back seat a bit overrated, I don't much like a lot of wind in my face, but in that respect it may be a lot like flying an open cockpit while you passenger gets the benefit of the windshield. I actually don't mind flying from the front seat with door open. I don't have any 1st hand experience but suspect some open cockpit planes may actually be better at deflecting the wind away from ones face.

Brian
CFIIG/ASEL
 
Some really great insight here, thank you all! I’m leaning toward the J-3 right now, if for the unique experience if nothing else. I’ll post a follow up after my first couple flights.

Thanks,
 
Most people who have flown a J-3 have a soft spot in their heart for the airplane. Not that I'd ever want to OWN one mind you, I bought a nice 90hp Champion 7EC for about half the price they'd fleece you for a comparable Cub these days. As mentioned, the open door thing is over-hyped, fun for 10 or 15 minutes but eventually you just want to close the darn thing.
 
Silvaire said:
Most people who have flown a J-3 have a soft spot in their heart for the airplane. Not that I'd ever want to OWN one mind you, I bought a nice 90hp Champion 7EC for about half the price they'd fleece you for a comparable Cub these days. As mentioned, the open door thing is over-hyped, fun for 10 or 15 minutes but eventually you just want to close the darn thing.
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I agree with everything you said, except the open door being over-hyped. We get something like 3 days of summer here in Albany, or so it feels like, maybe that makes more special flying an airplane with the door open. That said, I flew to my first checkride in a J-3, in January, with a tiny scattering of snow coming down. During the flight I remember thinking to myself "this is nuts!" more than once, as I shivered along, but it still makes me smile thinking about it. That, and that the DPE was kind enough to have a blanket ready to toss over the engine when I got there, to try to keep it a bit warmer for our flight.
 
I like Cubs, but my back doesn't. Funny how when I switched tailwheel trainers my back got better.
 
The question isn't, "Which one?" It's, "Which one, first?" Start in the back of the Cub to learn where to look during landings, then switch to the 140 to learn how to wheel land on pogo sticks.
 
Owning a 46' C-140 I would of course go with the Cub. Why not split it between the two?
 
Start in the Cub. Then checkout in the C-140.

Then fly as many TW aircraft as you can.

I have flown J-5, 7ECA, 7KCAB, 7GCBC, 8GCBC, 8KCAB, Great Lakes, Pitts S-2B, Cap-10B, PA-18-115 and PA-18-150 Super Cub, and a few more.
 
I would recommend starting in the Cub especially if you haven't flown a tandem or stick. Beyond the bragging rights of flying such a classic, it's a much different experience then probably anything you've flown and you'll have more fun. Flying the Cessna afterwards will be non-event.

Silvaire said:
Most people who have flown a J-3 have a soft spot in their heart for the airplane. Not that I'd ever want to OWN one mind you, I bought a nice 90hp Champion 7EC for about half the price they'd fleece you for a comparable Cub these days. As mentioned, the open door thing is over-hyped, fun for 10 or 15 minutes but eventually you just want to close the darn thing.
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I put 270 hours on my 7EC, awesome plane for the money. I like the open door option on hot days and always wished my 7EC had those clam-shell doors. Flying an open cockpit is still on my bucket list...
 
StikRudr said:
...I put 270 hours on my 7EC, awesome plane for the money. I like the open door option on hot days and always wished my 7EC had those clam-shell doors. Flying an open cockpit is still on my bucket list...
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I took the door off a couple of times on a hot day and it was fun but there was nobody in the back seat so not sure how much "fun" that would have been and well, in that situation you have to go back to the airport if you decide you want to close it.
 
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