Tail Strike on Landing

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Renesh Kumaresan

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Hi, I'm a student pilot who just started doing landings on my own. My instructor tells me to hold the nose off longer on the flare, but I'm too scared to, because I feel like I will scrape the tail. By the way, the plane I fly is a Cessna 162 Skycatcher and it has an extremely sensitive elevator. But I also want thoughts on tailstrikes in a Cessna 172 Skyhawk.
 
Renesh Kumaresan said:
Hi, I'm a student pilot who just started doing landings on my own. My instructor tells me to hold the nose off longer on the flare, but I'm too scared to, because I feel like I will scrape the tail. By the way, the plane I fly is a Cessna 162 Skycatcher and it has an extremely sensitive elevator. But I also want thoughts on tailstrikes in a Cessna 172 Skyhawk.
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Honestly the attitude you'd be at to get a tail strike would feel like you were completely vertical. Things feel worse than they are inside the plane.

But anyways you don't need to be flaring like the space shuttle just hold the nose high enough and let the airspeed bleed off until you touch down.
 
Rebel Lord said:
Honestly the attitude you'd be at to get a tail strike would feel like you were completely vertical. Things feel worse than they are inside the plane.

But anyways you don't need to be flaring like the space shuttle just hold the nose high enough and let the airspeed bleed off until you touch down.
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Also, I get scared of the ground approaching fast and desperately want to add power because I feel like the gear will break. What should my vertical speed be when landing?
 
is it a rental? ya see where I'm goin with that? jk......

but I don't think ur instructor would let that happen.
 
With full flaps it's essentially impossible to hit the tail of a 172. By design, the elevator will run out of authority before that happens.

The only way it can happen is if the plane balloons and then, right before hitting the ground, the pilot suddenly and aggressively rotates the tail into the ground. It's not easy to do. And when it does, usually the tail tiedown ring just gets worn down a bit - again!

Ideally, your vertical speed will be essentially zero as the tires "kiss" the pavement. Of course, in real life that's rarely the case, but the gear is designed to take a LOT of abuse.
 
Renesh Kumaresan said:
Also, I get scared of the ground approaching fast and desperately want to add power because I feel like the gear will break. What should my vertical speed be when landing?
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It's not really about watching the vertical speed. You will develop a feel for it. Trust me I was a student too up until last month, I went through all this myself. Just keep doing it and you will get it.
 
Pretty hard to do in a Cessna. When I instructed i wanted to see yoke completely in the lap. Seen numerous full aft landings and never a strike.
Can't really speak to other AC types.
 
Renesh Kumaresan said:
Also, I get scared of the ground approaching fast and desperately want to add power because I feel like the gear will break. What should my vertical speed be when landing?
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I was accused of fearing the ground at one point in my training. No big deal, switching your focus point to down the runway can help. Getting used to the ground rush is tougher because most instructors really think your eyes have to be looking out in front of the plane and well down the runway.

Don't be looking inside the aircraft at the VSI or much of anything else when in the round-out and landing.
 
If you're flying a reasonable approach speed it would be very hard to hit the tail.

Stand next to the airplane on the ground and think about sitting in the seat while someone uses a ratchet strap to pull the tail down to a tie down ring. (Please, just imagine it, don't do it. It's hard on stuff.) Think about how high the panel would look and how tilted to the rear your seat would be.
 
Clark1961 said:
I was accused of fearing the ground at one point in my training. No big deal, switching your focus point to down the runway can help. Getting used to the ground rush is tougher because most instructors really think your eyes have to be looking out in front of the plane and well down the runway.

Don't be looking inside the aircraft at the VSI or much of anything else when in the round-out and landing.
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This is a good point my instructor was always reminding me to look at the far end of the runways, it's easier to gauge decent. The hardest landings (as in I hit the ground hard) I've done were because I didn't transistion from my aiming point to the far end of the runway.
Also very important thing is nailing your airspeed on approach and making a good transition to ground effect.
 
One exercise instructors seem to forget to do... Have the student do a low pass down a very long runway doing their best to keep the wheels within 18 inches of the pavement or less and not land. Providing them with some time to practice both the correct sight picture for landing and energy management.
 
Renesh Kumaresan said:
Hi, I'm a student pilot who just started doing landings on my own. My instructor tells me to hold the nose off longer on the flare, but I'm too scared to, because I feel like I will scrape the tail. By the way, the plane I fly is a Cessna 162 Skycatcher and it has an extremely sensitive elevator. But I also want thoughts on tailstrikes in a Cessna 172 Skyhawk.
Click to expand...

Try this. Have your CFI take you out to the practice area where the land below is flat. Fly up to 1000 feet agl. Use landmarks below to make a virtual runway. Fly over that area and as you pass over the virtual runway entry begin to flare the plane and watch the siteview (watch how the nose lifts above the horizon). Imprint what your CFI says is enough nose lift. Then return to the airfield and repeat on the actual runway.
 
citizen5000 said:
Try this. Have your CFI take you out to the practice area where the land below is flat. Fly up to 1000 feet agl. Use landmarks below to make a virtual runway. Fly over that area and as you pass over the virtual runway entry begin to flare the plane and watch the siteview (watch how the nose lifts above the horizon). Imprint what your CFI says is enough nose lift. Then return to the airfield and repeat on the actual runway.
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The exercises are called slow flight and approach stall and are a regular part of training. No "virtual runway" is needed or relevant. Where did this guy come from? Was he the unintended offspring of some unnatural act involving 6pc, the monkey, and too much 100LL? Will the horrors ever stop? The world wonders...
 
Perhaps of some interest:

Here's what it takes to get a Cirrus tail on the ground:

15241626558_75183eec00_z.jpg


edited to add: I just noticed the "China" in front of the passenger door. Prescient?
 
FastEddieB said:
Perhaps of some interest:

Here's what it takes to get a Cirrus tail on the ground:

15241626558_75183eec00_z.jpg


edited to add: I just noticed the "China" in front of the passenger door. Prescient?
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Dude that's part of the protractor :lol:
 
citizen5000 said:
Try this. Have your CFI take you out to the practice area where the land below is flat. Fly up to 1000 feet agl. Use landmarks below to make a virtual runway. Fly over that area and as you pass over the virtual runway entry begin to flare the plane and watch the siteview (watch how the nose lifts above the horizon). Imprint what your CFI says is enough nose lift. Then return to the airfield and repeat on the actual runway.
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Setting yourself up for a stall at 1000 agl...
 
I said begin the flare- not take it to a stall- it was a very effective exercise in my opinion.
 
In the 162 (or any plane), if you're in a normal landing attitude, you'll quickly get the feel for what's too fast and will lead to ballooning, and what will let you raise the nose as you touch down.

If you come in way too hot, force it down, and bounce it, everything will feel wrong (too high, too slow, nose way too high)... that is your sign to go around, lest you pancake it in and tail strike.
 
Don't worry boutit

You should be end up able to do touch and goes without your nose wheel (BTW why are you going a nose wheel?) touching the ground
 
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citizen5000 said:
Try this. Have your CFI take you out to the practice area where the land below is flat. Fly up to 1000 feet agl. Use landmarks below to make a virtual runway. Fly over that area and as you pass over the virtual runway entry begin to flare the plane and watch the siteview (watch how the nose lifts above the horizon). Imprint what your CFI says is enough nose lift. Then return to the airfield and repeat on the actual runway.
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Kritchlow said:
Setting yourself up for a stall at 1000 agl...
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"Objective To determine that the applicant exhibits satisfactory knowledge, risk management, and skills associated with maneuvering during slow flight.
...
PA.VII.A.K6 6. The importance of the 1,500-foot AGL (ASEL/ASES) or 3,000-foot AGL (AMEL/AMES) minimum altitude."

There's no reason whatsoever to pick 1000 AGL for the location of the "virtual runway"... and... it's not good ADM anyway, as @Kritchlow pointed out, on the part of the CFI who had you do it that low.

In relation to what this guy is learning, it doesn't matter if it's 1000, 1500, 2000, or 4000... the angle out the window doesn't match what you see in the flare because the runway end rises up in the window and side windows in a real flare.

He needs to go fly all the way down the runway without touching down, using power to hold the aircraft off...

But I suspect his CFI will work up to that shortly anyway, if he's having trouble with flying slow above the runway...
 
citizen5000 said:
Try this. Have your CFI take you out to the practice area where the land below is flat. Fly up to 1000 feet agl. Use landmarks below to make a virtual runway. Fly over that area and as you pass over the virtual runway entry begin to flare the plane and watch the siteview (watch how the nose lifts above the horizon). Imprint what your CFI says is enough nose lift. Then return to the airfield and repeat on the actual runway.
Click to expand...

I take students to 6,200 MSL and have them fly a rectangular course down to 5,200 (field elevation 3,200) and abeam their "downwind" leg they're at 5,200 and about to enter a power off stall Gives them more than 1,500 required feet for stalls/recovery (You do know that' a thing, right?) and it teaches them the traffic pattern and speeds without being near the ground (aka runway). It's been incredibly effective for airspeed control in the pattern but I wouldn't use it in this case. In this case I would have the student fly just above the runway with a touch of power in and not allow the wheels to touch. Then I'd either initiate a go-around or I'd pull the power and let the wheels gently touch.
 
Z06_Mir said:
I take students to 6,200 MSL and have them fly a rectangular course down to 5,200 (field elevation 3,200) and abeam their "downwind" leg they're at 5,200 and about to enter a power off stall Gives them more than 1,500 required feet for stalls/recovery (You do know that' a thing, right?) and it teaches them the traffic pattern and speeds without being near the ground (aka runway). It's been incredibly effective for airspeed control in the pattern but I wouldn't use it in this case. In this case I would have the student fly just above the runway with a touch of power in and not allow the wheels to touch. Then I'd either initiate a go-around or I'd pull the power and let the wheels gently touch.
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You sound like a good CFI. This technique was demonstrated to me by a guy who also found it effective with students.
 
Even in a Piper it would be very difficult under a 'normal' landing sequence to tail strike, much less a Cessna. Manufacturers consider these scenarios during their development processes.
 
The 162 has that ventral fin below the tailcone, so I can understand why that would make you nervous. My checkout CFI told me never to get too slow out of fear of smacking it too.

That said, the 162 usually has a tail skid around the tail tie down ring, so you have that to help you out. But the main concern is the nose wheel. It's quite delicate on the162 so you should be more way concerned on touching down on the mains first. Plus, it's rather springy compared to a 172. Concentrate on keeping the nose wheel off until the mains settle. As long as the nose wheel isn't more than a few inches off, the tail will be fine.
 
asicer said:
The 162 has that ventral fin below the tailcone, so I can understand why that would make you nervous. My checkout CFI told me never to get too slow out of fear of smacking it too.
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I don't get why your CFI was worried about it...

Video of a Skycatcher landing on the mains... sure looks like there's a lot of daylight under that ventral fin at 0:45... and what I'm assuming is a soft-field takeoff at 2:44...

BUT... he got a tailstrike at 3:45... flared WAY too high...

And they apparently didn't notice and kept flying it... I have no idea what the burst of power is for at 4:45... hahaha... sounded like a fart...

 
Skyrys62 said:
Tailstrike and fart could be considered the same thing...in the context of attacking someone.
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That warning probably belongs in the "Upscale Eating" thread... ROFL...

(Oh man, did I actually just type that...?)
 
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