Taboo thread - How do we afford to fly?

Maybe I'm old fashioned (and just plain old) but matters such as being discussed are not, at least in my world, the business of anybody but me. My dear wife knows a great deal but even she is not privy to every financial decision I have made. Of course I feel the same way about health issues. There are some that need to know and others that do not. I don't need to see all of your scars and hear of all your operations.

I was quite put off at SnF when visiting a friend of a friend and another fella came over and was quite boisterous about his money and all the wonderful real estate deals he had going on in countries around the world. Such a lack of class!

Wise men understand that it's not how much you make but your proactive care and handling of what you have. They also know that a man's life is not made of what he has.

Sorry that this is a bit off the topic.
 
I guess I’ll play along.
Age 57
Income, substantially less now that I’ve retired.
Airplanes both paid for, 182Q that my dad and I bought for my son to fly. Cessna 425 that I really like to fly, but can’t justify the expense of keeping it. So, as soon as the SID inspection is completed, she’ll be up for sale.
Kids are grown and mostly off the payroll, mostly!!
Dream plane is a P51! :D
 
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Happy to chime in:

Age: 41
Current Plane: 1998 Cessna 182S
Partnership: No
Purchase Price:... I bought it a few weeks ago and it is a Van Bortel plane, for matters of personal safety I can not further disclose
Monthly: $435 (hangar)
Hourly: No idea
Annual Gross Income: about the same as my wife
Dream Plane: I think once i get my new panel, I will be very happy... Though a new PC-12 with autoland...

I know there is a lot of sharing income pro& con...
People need to keep in mind cost of living are very different in the country.
$75k in a small town in North Alabma will let you live really well, the same $75k in Los Angeles or Manhattan (New York) has you living almost homeless.
 
Matt Goodrich said:
In other parts of the internet I frequent, people are more often open about how they make and spend money. Thought giving it a shot here could be interesting. I’ve always been curious how people are able to afford such nice airplanes. I looked for similar threads, but didn’t find any. In the spirit of trust I’ll go first.

Age: 33
Current Plane: 1975 Cessna 182P (All steam gauges, No GPS)
Partnership: Yes, 1/5
Buy-In: $17,000
Monthly: $85
Hourly: $25/hr Dry
Annual Gross Income: $380,500
Dream Plane: Bonanza A36 with modern avionics

Between our mortgage, car payments, monthly spending, two kids in daycare, and our savings goal every month I’m in a comfortable spot. Hoping once kids are a bit older and cost less than our house every month we can talk about that next plane. The partnership has been great so far, but I’m already finding things like being able to leave a car seat in the plane may eventually drive me to having my own bird.
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Curious, what do you do that makes you $380,500? It is none of my business of course but since you have unzipped your financial fly and asked others to do as well.
 
I’m 53.
My plane is 14.
Married, but 0 kids.
I work 60 hours a week.
 
I’m a “Sportin’ Man”, my income depends upon how good the game is the night before.

Only expenses are the hotel room rent and the bar tab.

Aircraft? I fly other people’s aircraft and let them pay the bill. ;)
 
I just scanned through this thread to see who would post their income....


I’m mid-40s and while I don’t consider that taboo, I’ve definitely not posting that on the internet!
 
TimRF79 said:
Happy to chime in:

Age: 41
Current Plane: 1998 Cessna 182S
Partnership: No
Purchase Price:... I bought it a few weeks ago and it is a Van Bortel plane, for matters of personal safety I can not further disclose
Monthly: $435 (hangar)
Hourly: No idea
Annual Gross Income: about the same as my wife
Dream Plane: I think once i get my new panel, I will be very happy... Though a new PC-12 with autoland...

I know there is a lot of sharing income pro& con...
People need to keep in mind cost of living are very different in the country.
$75k in a small town in North Alabma will let you live really well, the same $75k in Los Angeles or Manhattan (New York) has you living almost homeless.
Click to expand...
I’ve been friends with Howard for 25 years, great guy and a fine company to deal with, might not be the cheapest game in town, but you won’t have any issues!
 
I’ll play since my income is public knowledge.

Age: 38
Current Plane: Comanche 250
Partnership: yes 1/2owner
Price to play: $50k plus $35k in upgrades
Monthly: Hangar $405 split, plane is paid off and split all maintenance down the middle
Hourly: just used fuel
Gross income: good enough to not get any tax breaks
Dream plane: realistic dream plane, Cessna 310D
Lotto planes, B-25 and Commander1000
 
Age: 45
Current Plane: 2015 Mooney M20R
Partnership: No
Purchase Price: More than my house. Everything is paid off/paid for with cash, so there's that.
Monthly: $170 private hangar w/free electricity and paved floor
Hourly: I intentionally don't keep track
Annual Gross Income: I'm a doctor, but I work for the government
Dream Plane: I'm flying it.

TimRF79 said:
...People need to keep in mind cost of living are very different in the country.
$75k in a small town in North Alabma will let you live really well, the same $75k in Los Angeles or Manhattan (New York) has you living almost homeless.
Click to expand...

It's not just different parts of the country. My in-laws live about 20 minutes away, in a community that is not known for being anymore "exclusive" than the community I live in. Yet, their taxes, per MONTH, are three times more than my taxes per YEAR! Of course, their house is also worth about 3 times more than mine: lake front, on an island, and quite large (but imho, not worth that high of a tax bill). Their house is beautiful, but they are cash poor.
 
Age: 27 years.
Current Plane: I don't know, my father's plane.
Partnership: No
Monthly: $150 hangar
 
In 1994 I bought my airplane for the sum of $27,800. oh wait, the OP said "afford such nice airplanes"... I doubt that a '74 Cherokee 140 would the at the top of list when thinking about "such nice airplanes"... nevermind...

In any case, people can afford it because (1) they prioritize and/or (2) they are super rich.
 
Bob Noel said:
In 1994 I bought my airplane for the sum of $27,800. oh wait, the OP said "afford such nice airplanes"... I doubt that a '74 Cherokee 140 would the at the top of list when thinking about "such nice airplanes"... nevermind...

In any case, people can afford it because (1) they prioritize and/or (2) they are super rich.
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It has a great personality! :D
 
Tantalum said:
I recently learned about Merlins.. they're a proper beast! Figured they're beyond something I could hope to safely own. Cool looking though, and FAST
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Before shutting down Cloud Nine, we'd considered a Merlin upgrade to get more capacity than the MU-2. Really great airplanes and appeal to all of my wants as a pilot, plus would've been great for dog hauling. A Merlin III would've been the ideal, but my engine shop had a very nice Merlin IIB and we were talking about trying to work a deal on it. But the numbers were fairly difficult to work with, and ultimately it was the right time (and right thing) to shut down.
 
Age: 60
Current Plane: none, I rent
Partnership: No - I belong to a club and also rent from a flight school
Purchase Price: NA
Hourly: $140 or so wet
Annual Gross Income: nobody's business
Dream Plane: C 182 straight leg, updated G3 panel, speed pants and gap seals, updated interior

How afford:
  • No debt, no mortgage
  • Wife of 37 years and I have one (out of 3) "child" left in college (senior)
  • Final year of college and wedding accounts (2 girls) fully funded
  • Live within our means
  • Can have fun giving money to church organizations that need it
  • No mortgage or car payments means I can spend that on flying and other things
  • Retiring someday in 5 years to have fun spending the inheritance
 
Age: still a little under 40

Current plane: None yet, literally just put in an offer on a Cherokee 140/160 hp

Income: Enough to pay cash for a Cherokee 140 older than me, not enough to afford a Bo, Cirrus, anything younger than me, etc. without a loan

Operating cost: TBD but more than I'm expecting I'm sure.

Occupation: I tell other people where to fly while I sit in an office (or home now).

Did I do this right?
 
Todd82 said:
Age: still a little under 40

Current plane: None yet, literally just put in an offer on a Cherokee 140/160 hp

Income: Enough to pay cash for a Cherokee 140 older than me, not enough to afford a Bo, Cirrus, anything younger than me, etc. without a loan

Operating cost: TBD but more than I'm expecting I'm sure.

Occupation: I tell other people where to fly while I sit in an office (or home now).

Did I do this right?
Click to expand...

how wrong could it be if you end up with an airplane?
 
Ted said:
Really great airplanes and appeal to all of my wants as a pilot
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Yeah it looks awesome from everything I've read about them. But I think it's beyond anything I'll ever pilot :(
 
83 with a retirement income that's a pittance compared to you rich guys. 2 old airplanes and 2 old vehicles. No mortgage, no car loans no debts. I'm an A&P IA so I don't have to pay a mechanic. I live on an airpark, so no inflated hangar rent.
My wife does an outstanding job of managing our finances so we can still buy some toys. :D
 
My airplane is 75 years old and has had 75% of its parts replaced as a result of a few mishaps long ago. It is older than me.

It shouldn't cost much to own and operate, but it is still awaiting parts and labor to get it out of a never ending Annual Inspection. No amount of personal income or cash on hand seems to be enough to produce lift and make it fly.

Thread drift is a terrible thing...
 
charheep said:
I think the better question would be "how do you find the time to fly"
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Cold facts. I'm generally on the schedule every Saturday morning, and live in an area of the country where the weather generally cooperates more than not. Like a lot of us, however, my career (and frankly, relative lack of seniority within my firm) means I really have very little control over my personal schedule. I try not to keep a batting average because it would just be depressing, but I'd say of VFR Saturday mornings, I probably get pulled into work stuff that can't wait a few hours about 1/3rd of the time. As far as working in a large law firm, though - that's what you sign up for.
 
Age: 37
Plane: None, working on that. Part-time CFI so get to go play with the birds every now and then on someone else's dime.
Job: Was military, 14 years/0-3, pay charts are available for everyone to see. Trying to go contractor route now but that seems to have hit a rough patch the last few weeks. Goal was to pay off student loans, come home debt free, buy plane outright.

Current plan: Under revision :mad2:
 
Matt Goodrich said:
In other parts of the internet I frequent, people are more often open about how they make and spend money. Thought giving it a shot here could be interesting. I’ve always been curious how people are able to afford such nice airplanes. I looked for similar threads, but didn’t find any. In the spirit of trust I’ll go first.

Age: 33
Current Plane: 1975 Cessna 182P (All steam gauges, No GPS)
Partnership: Yes, 1/5
Buy-In: $17,000
Monthly: $85
Hourly: $25/hr Dry
Annual Gross Income: $380,500
Dream Plane: Bonanza A36 with modern avionics

Between our mortgage, car payments, monthly spending, two kids in daycare, and our savings goal every month I’m in a comfortable spot. Hoping once kids are a bit older and cost less than our house every month we can talk about that next plane. The partnership has been great so far, but I’m already finding things like being able to leave a car seat in the plane may eventually drive me to having my own bird.
Click to expand...
 
Age 65....i own my 8th and 9th airplane, outright, i buy flying projects and tinker, habe a cross county retractable and an antique in mid resto. No wife, kids raised and on their own with great career's, drive a modest vehicle and own and built my 3k sq ft log cabin. No debt's, don't need anything, can buy anything i want but i don', plenty of weapons and ammo. Do all my own maintenance with my IA best friend. No hangar rent, airplane covers do the job, but most important, i'm happy and content.....life is good. Jay.
 
Matt Goodrich said:
In other parts of the internet I frequent, people are more often open about how they make and spend money. Thought giving it a shot here could be interesting. I’ve always been curious how people are able to afford such nice airplanes. I looked for similar threads, but didn’t find any. In the spirit of trust I’ll go first.

Age: 33
Current Plane: 1975 Cessna 182P (All steam gauges, No GPS)
Partnership: Yes, 1/5
Buy-In: $17,000
Monthly: $85
Hourly: $25/hr Dry
Annual Gross Income: $380,500
Dream Plane: Bonanza A36 with modern avionics

Between our mortgage, car payments, monthly spending, two kids in daycare, and our savings goal every month I’m in a comfortable spot. Hoping once kids are a bit older and cost less than our house every month we can talk about that next plane. The partnership has been great so far, but I’m already finding things like being able to leave a car seat in the plane may eventually drive me to having my own bird.
Click to expand...
Over the years, the cost that matters is maintaining and operating the plane, not the initial purchase price.

My average cost of flying (sole owner of a PA-28-161) is just under US $10K/year. That's about the same as the annual cost of keeping a car. My family's never had or needed a second car (dense urban walking neighbourhood, great public transit), so we spend it on a plane instead.
 
Age: Old enough to be your great grandfather (or 7 if you count the time I died and was revived by an AED.)
Current Plane: 1) Ercoupe almost as old as me. 2) Aerolite 103 Ultralight
Partnership: 1/2 with another geezer in the ‘Coupe. Aerolite 100%
Buy: Coupe $12K cash each. Aerolite $12K me
Annual Cost: No Clue (although the ‘Coupe has needed more replacement parts than me so far.)
Hourly Cost: No Clue
Annual Gross: More than Enough and about twice what I made as an USAF SES 25 years ago when I retired.
Dream Plane: F-14 ever since I flew with VF-124 for a couple of rides and Carrier Qual.

Cheers
 
Alright, enough with the kitty porn.

All you Tomcat dreamers, I was with you once. I saw TOPGUN in the theatre with all my ROTC buds, watched it over and over on DVD. My wife even bought me a single share of Grumman stock (on paper, kids!) as incentive to do well in flight school so I could get Tomcats. Then I got some very sage advice as I finished flight school (from Tomcat dudes, no less) that Hornets were the way to go.

Best. Advice. Ever.

(Hat tip to @Tantalum for the dramatic punctuation effect)
 
Age: 56.
Salary: More than I'm worth, less than I want. ;-) I'm an engineering manager, so I do OK.
Airplane(s). RV-6 flying, RV-10 gonna leave the garage for the paint shop in a week or two.

How do I afford an airplane or two? I'm frugal. I handle most of the upkeep and work around the house - it is part of my fitness plan. If I do the work, I don't have to pay for either a craftsman or a laborer to do it, and by doing the work, I sort of avoid the need for a gym membership. My car cost $22K and will be reliable transportation for 10+ years or 300,000 miles, whichever comes second. As anyone who knows me will tell you, I'm not about getting the latest/greatest. I just buy what makes sense, leaning towards the low cost side. I do all of the work on the airplane(s). And we own a modest house relative to our income.
 
DrewG said:
I think you make a good point about certain folks thinking everyone is worth the same, but I also do not have a problem with people discussing their incomes within the same company & similar job ranks. I think that's been pretty taboo and discouraged in society overall and it has resulted in some people getting paid far less than what they are worth, just because they have no idea of their comparative value. So, I don't find it as a terrible thing that employees actually discuss and compare incomes, so long as there is an understanding that everyone isn't worth the same; it at least shines a light on cases where there is some serious disparity.

As an example, I am an independent land contractor in oil & gas. I was tasked with running a large acquisition and divestiture project and was in charge of about 20 people. I was brought on for a lesser day rate than I had asked for in negotiations. Come to find out - through an accidental peek of project billing - that a gentleman "under" me was getting what I had asked for in the first place. He was probably the most incompetent man on my entire crew (and also happened to be the most recent hire) and everyone knew it. He must have lied through his teeth on his resume. I was absolutely livid that someone with less experience and capability was getting paid more than me, who was running the entire show. I'd have been far less angry - or actually, not angry at all - if my employer had pre-emptively (and appropriately) adjusted my day rate commensurately without me having to discover that on accident. So - I believe some good can come of everyone openly discussing and knowing what their peers are getting paid and drawing their own conclusions based on experience/competence/effort, etc.

All of that being said, I have noticed folks that are younger than their mid-30's (I'm mid 40's) really do seem to talk about how much income they make, how much things they purchase cost them, etc. in social situations without abandon. That has always been taboo to me and is no one else's business.
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It's important in some professions that people are open and honest about what they charge as contractors. Especially in aviation where some folks are desperate to work for free. On all the FB groups and such people openly discuss their day rates, ask for advice on them, check salaries and compare to NBAA surveys etc. In that regard it's important to know so you aren't undercutting a sensitive industry and lowering everyones value.

I'm 30 years old and our friends do discuss salaries. Usually in terms of "I got a $x raise" or "I got a y% raise", though it isn't uncommon for actual dollar mounts to come into the picture. We're all DINC couples though, or single professionals, so relatively in the same place.
 
Age: 69
Current Plane: Lear 23
Partnership: A different one every night, if you know what I mean!!!!!!:D:D:D:D:D:p:p:p:p:):):):eek::D:D:D
Price to play: $69,000
Monthly: $690
Hourly: $6900
Gross income: $696969.69
Dream plane: You're mom
 
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