Taboo thread - How do we afford to fly?

I think it’s pretty classless to share your income on the internet. But what the hell do I know, I am just a lowly crayon taster.
 
Tarheelpilot said:
Romeo y Julieta 1875 Nicaraguan and Elijah Craig here but I did transition to some Irish juice and grabbed some Jameson after a nip of the EC.
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Romeo Y Julieta 1875 “Cigarros” is the perfect size for me. No more letting them get stale, after only smoking a half. And, I am a Scotch guy... Glenlivet & Chivas Regal.
 
For years I told people that the reason I was driving a ten year old car was so I could afford to fly a 50 year old airplane.

While I keep Makers in house for those who want it (and I use it in mixed drinks). I have one 375 bottle on display because I dipped it in the wax at the distillery myself.
I'm more partial to Knob Creek and Woodford for daily drinkers, and some Rabbit Hole at others.

Cigars, I'm more all over the place. Padron when I'm indulgent, Rocky Patels, LFD, Ashton Heritage, etc...
 
flyingron said:
For years I told people that the reason I was driving a ten year old car was so I could afford to fly a 50 year old airplane.

While I keep Makers in house for those who want it (and I use it in mixed drinks). I have one 375 bottle on display because I dipped it in the wax at the distillery myself.
I'm more partial to Knob Creek and Woodford for daily drinkers, and some Rabbit Hole at others.

Cigars, I'm more all over the place. Padron when I'm indulgent, Rocky Patels, LFD, Ashton Heritage, etc...
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I’m all over the place too. I recently started exploring the Honduran cigars. Digging through my humidor I find more Nicaraguan than anything. Lots of Dominican, especially like the Arturo Fuentes line up. Olivia makes a good stick as well. Just so many good ones out there at the moment. If you like any infused cigars I would stock up. The FDA recently dropped a NPRM to ban all flavored cigars in the U.S.
 
NealRomeoGolf said:
Yummy. What's your favorite flavor?
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I prefer paints:

3E-9848-1.jpg
 
Tarheelpilot said:
The FDA recently dropped a NPRM to ban all flavored cigars in the U.S.
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I thought maybe they'd skip that for "premium cigars," a distinction they've already made elsewhere. Other than an odd "coffee infused" cigar, I'm not overly fond of them. I don't even much use aromatic pipe tobaccos.
 
Tarheelpilot said:
...If you like any infused cigars I would stock up. The FDA recently dropped a NPRM to ban all flavored cigars in the U.S.
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I brought a tin of Acids to Rough River (mostly because I wanted to say I had acid at the fly-in) but those have like flavory type stuff on them, are those considered 'infused'? the cigar itself was ok but man that flavor, it was a little overpowering on the lips and I was like 'wtf is this?!?!' seems like those are training wheels for new stogie smokers.
 
I used to be a PoA moderator.
 
flyingron said:
While I keep Makers in house for those who want it (and I use it in mixed drinks). I have one 375 bottle on display because I dipped it in the wax at the distillery myself.
I'm more partial to Knob Creek and Woodford for daily drinkers, and some Rabbit Hole at others.
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I like Knob Creek, especially some of their better stuff. While Makers gave the best tour and showed us the most, I'm just not a fan. The surprise of the KY bourbon trail tour was Four Roses yellow label, it was a fine fine bottle at ~$18, but the market has since caught on. Yellow label is no longer the bargain it once was...

That said, I seem to be a big fan of Heaven Hill's lineup of bourbons.
 
People think all pilots are rich! After 22 years of marriage, our kids were grown and gone and we found we had nothing in common. After parting ways, I had to recover from losing half of everything, but I'm getting there. Mid-life crisis hit and I bought a convertible Camaro SS! Decided I'm more of a truck guy, so I traded in the Camaro on a brand new GMC Sierra... I had never owned anything new before. I feel like an idiot every time I make an $821 payment on a truck that is only going to depreciate. I've decided to buy a car with cash and put the money toward a plane. And that's how I can afford to fly!
 
Lowflynjack said:
and we found we had nothing in common
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..sorry man. Been there. Crazy to grow up and build your life with someone then realize you are two totally. different. people
 
Tantalum said:
..sorry man. Been there. Crazy to grow up and build your life with someone then realize you are two totally. different. people
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No kidding. I am my wife's starter husband. Kids are just about gone, and now she's talking about paying off the mortgage, while I'm searching for a Baron. This could get ugly.
 
Tantalum said:
..sorry man. Been there. Crazy to grow up and build your life with someone then realize you are two totally. different. people
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Turned out to be a good thing for me. Wanted to be there for my girls. Now I realize I should have left years ago... hindsight is amazing!
 
Tantalum said:
...Crazy to grow up and build your life with someone then realize you are two totally. different. people
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I tell all my friends that's what keeps my marriage together. We have absolutely nothing in common. Therefore nothing to ever argue about. :)
She has horses. My "horses" guzzle 100LL like it's never going away. Peace and harmony reigns. ;)
 
Lowflynjack said:
People think all pilots are rich! After 22 years of marriage, our kids were grown and gone and we found we had nothing in common. After parting ways, I had to recover from losing half of everything, but I'm getting there. Mid-life crisis hit and I bought a convertible Camaro SS! Decided I'm more of a truck guy, so I traded in the Camaro on a brand new GMC Sierra... I had never owned anything new before. I feel like an idiot every time I make an $821 payment on a truck that is only going to depreciate. I've decided to buy a car with cash and put the money toward a plane. And that's how I can afford to fly!
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Sorry to hear, but at least you are on a good path now.
 
GRG55 said:
I tell all my friends that's what keeps my marriage together. We have absolutely nothing in common. Therefore nothing to ever argue about. :)
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LOL, I tell my friends that's why mine fell apart. We never fought. She didn't care if I was out of town for weeks. My girlfriend can certainly argue... we may be together forever! On a serious note, she likes to fly and is working on getting her license, her kids are also grown, so she can travel with me, and I'm pretty sure she loves me!
 
GRG55 said:
We have absolutely nothing in common.
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Haha I’m in this camp. I get her+kids in a plane 2-4x annually for trips, then I’m on my own. Can’t argue much about that.

Ok I’ll bite on the survey. It’s interesting to compare.

Age: sub 40
Current Plane: none
Partnership: 2 clubs
Buy-In: $500 deposit / $400 deposit
Monthly: $0 / $38
Hourly: C172M-$145; C172R & SP-$165; DA40-$200; SR22TN G3-$370 / C152-$90; C172N-$98; P28R 200-$145tach
Annual Gross Income: Half or less than OP
Dream Plane: Beech 18, PC12... really depends on the mission.


Lowflynjack said:
I had never owned anything new before. I feel like an idiot every time I make an $821 payment on a truck that is only going to depreciate.
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This is why I haven’t made it to ownership yet... car payment and related collection. Bought the most recent one right before I started my ticket.
 
Age: 35
Current Plane: 1972 Grumman Traveler
Partnership: Yes, 1/10
Buy-In: $5,000
Monthly: $90
Hourly: $25/hr Dry
Annual Gross Income: $65,000-ish day job.
Dream Plane: A twin engine homebuilt with 6 seats. Or Bearhawk5.

Told my wife no kids until we get a plane. Got the plane, she was pregnant a month later
Make it happen by living under our means as much as possible and my second job pays for the flying. 20 year old truck for me. Use my motorcycles to save on gas for longer driving. I retired from professional muay Thai boxing when the kid was born so now I have a stable list of clients that do personal training with me.
Don't need to be wealthy to fly but it probably helps!
 
AA5Bman said:
I think it’s pretty classless to share your income on the internet. But what the hell do I know, I am just a lowly crayon taster.
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It's a thing with certain age folks right now as part of their perception that everyone is the worth the same. I see some younger employees being very open about it and then I get demands that "he or she makes more than me" I have to address. It's fun (for about 11 more months) :D

Age: 57
Current Plane: Club 2 X 172, 182, 182RG, RV-12, Archer
Partnership: Yes, 75 members in one club and 12 in the other
Buy-In: Both clubs were $1200 (returnable on departure)
Monthly: $165 for one $180 for the other
Hourly: 182 = $170/hour, $172= $130, Archer = $95
Annual Gross Income: Sufficient to dedicate $1K/ month to flying (no mortgage, two cars > 10 years old, 45% of income to investments)
Dream Plane: right now? Commander 114B/115
 
Pugs said:
It's a thing with certain age folks right now as part of their perception that everyone is the worth the same. I see some younger employees being very open about it and then I get demands that "he or she makes more than me" I have to address.
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I think you make a good point about certain folks thinking everyone is worth the same, but I also do not have a problem with people discussing their incomes within the same company & similar job ranks. I think that's been pretty taboo and discouraged in society overall and it has resulted in some people getting paid far less than what they are worth, just because they have no idea of their comparative value. So, I don't find it as a terrible thing that employees actually discuss and compare incomes, so long as there is an understanding that everyone isn't worth the same; it at least shines a light on cases where there is some serious disparity.

As an example, I am an independent land contractor in oil & gas. I was tasked with running a large acquisition and divestiture project and was in charge of about 20 people. I was brought on for a lesser day rate than I had asked for in negotiations. Come to find out - through an accidental peek of project billing - that a gentleman "under" me was getting what I had asked for in the first place. He was probably the most incompetent man on my entire crew (and also happened to be the most recent hire) and everyone knew it. He must have lied through his teeth on his resume. I was absolutely livid that someone with less experience and capability was getting paid more than me, who was running the entire show. I'd have been far less angry - or actually, not angry at all - if my employer had pre-emptively (and appropriately) adjusted my day rate commensurately without me having to discover that on accident. So - I believe some good can come of everyone openly discussing and knowing what their peers are getting paid and drawing their own conclusions based on experience/competence/effort, etc.

All of that being said, I have noticed folks that are younger than their mid-30's (I'm mid 40's) really do seem to talk about how much income they make, how much things they purchase cost them, etc. in social situations without abandon. That has always been taboo to me and is no one else's business.
 
DrewG said:
I think you make a good point about certain folks thinking everyone is worth the same, but I also do not have a problem with people discussing their incomes within the same company & similar job ranks. I think that's been pretty taboo and discouraged in society overall and it has resulted in some people getting paid far less than what they are worth, just because they have no idea of their comparative value. So, I don't find it as a terrible thing that employees actually discuss and compare incomes, so long as there is an understanding that everyone isn't worth the same; it at least shines a light on cases where there is some serious disparity.

As an example, I am an independent land contractor in oil & gas. I was tasked with running a large acquisition and divestiture project and was in charge of about 20 people. I was brought on for a lesser day rate than I had asked for in negotiations. Come to find out - through an accidental peek of project billing - that a gentleman "under" me was getting what I had asked for in the first place. He was probably the most incompetent man on my entire crew (and also happened to be the most recent hire) and everyone knew it. He must have lied through his teeth on his resume. I was absolutely livid that someone with less experience and capability was getting paid more than me, who was running the entire show. I'd have been far less angry - or actually, not angry at all - if my employer had pre-emptively (and appropriately) adjusted my day rate commensurately without me having to discover that on accident. So - I believe some good can come of everyone openly discussing and knowing what their peers are getting paid and drawing their own conclusions based on experience/competence/effort, etc.

All of that being said, I have noticed folks that are younger than their mid-30's (I'm mid 40's) really do seem to talk about how much income they make, how much things they purchase cost them, etc. in social situations without abandon. That has always been taboo to me and is no one else's business.
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Your example illustrates perfectly that sharing salary information is a terrible idea for those who are high earners.

My grandfather used to tell me: "Never let a man know you have a nickel more than he does" -- and the advice has served me pretty well. I don't even tell people that I fly unless it's on an aviation forum. They instantly assume I'm the monopoly guy, and it absolutely changes the relationship dynamic.
 
schmookeeg said:
Your example illustrates perfectly that sharing salary information is a terrible idea for those who are high earners.

My grandfather used to tell me: "Never let a man know you have a nickel more than he does" -- and the advice has served me pretty well. I don't even tell people that I fly unless it's on an aviation forum. They instantly assume I'm the monopoly guy, and it absolutely changes the relationship dynamic.
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pretty much this. especially in today's environment where "rich man bad". and "rich" is "anyone who has more than me".
 
eman1200 said:
I brought a tin of Acids to Rough River (mostly because I wanted to say I had acid at the fly-in) but those have like flavory type stuff on them, are those considered 'infused'? the cigar itself was ok but man that flavor, it was a little overpowering on the lips and I was like 'wtf is this?!?!' seems like those are training wheels for new stogie smokers.
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Yes. They are flavored. That’s what the Man wants to ban. Along with menthol cigarettes.
 
Age: 44
Current Plane: 2001 Cirrus SR22
Partnership: Yes, 0/1 (Dad's plane)
Buy-In: $0.00
Monthly: $0.00
Hourly: $0.00

Other Current Plane: 1972 Grumman Traveler
Partnership: No (I gave dad a set of keys but he has the aforementioned Cirrus so no reason to Grumman)
Buy-In: $40k
Monthly: I don't know. I don't track it.
Hourly: I don't know. I don't track it.
Annual Gross Income: Doesn't matter. Our income versus what we pay ourselves are 2 wildly different numbers.
The latter allowing me enough to comfortably fly an old Grumman without thinking too much about it.
Dream Plane: I like em all
 
I think the shyness about incomes within a company is to the benefit of employers and not employees. Outside of a company it is more personal and I would think more appropriate in a conversation among friends. I decided to share some of my details to give an example that one can grind and hustle, have a family, house etc and still fly without making a stereotypical ton of money. I fly about 40-80 hours per year.
 
bflynn said:
I believe the secret is to not add it up and certainly don’t tell the wife what you spend...
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That works unless your wife is a pilot and knows what a AMU is :(

Ages: 55/53 (we both fly)
Current Plane: 1972 182P (Steam gauges except GTX345)
Partnership: No
Buy-In: $60,000
Monthly: (see hourly)
Hourly: $130/hr (all in: fuel, mx, engine reserve, annual, insurance, hangar, etc)
Annual Gross Income: Still not enough for the TTx
Dream Plane: 210, TTx, TMB 9xx (possible, almost possible, lottery ticket)
 
Current Plane: 1978 172N - Glass, 180 STC, & A/P
Partnership: Yes, 1/5
Buy-In: $20,000
Monthly: $200
Hourly: $25/hr Dry - $40/hr Fuel Budget
Occupation: The Darkside
Annual Gross Income: If ya know me it’s actual public knowledge.
Dream Plane: RV-14 or SR-22 G4 or newer
 
Current Plane: Glasair II
Age: Younger than my plane.
Partnership: No
Buy-In: $40,000
Monthly: ~$1200 ($500 hangar, $120 insurance, MX, etc)
Hourly: $50/h fuel, $25 engine reserve.
Occupation: Tech
Annual Gross Income: Less than I want, more than I deserve.
Dream Plane: PBY, duh.
 
I started off washing lettuce, then the fryer. Now I’m working the register. Soon I’ll make manager, thats when the big bucks start rolling in!
Age. Same as my plane
Partners. never
Buy-in. Way more then the plane was new
Dream plane. F14
 
schmookeeg said:
My grandfather used to tell me: "Never let a man know you have a nickel more than he does" -- and the advice has served me pretty well. I don't even tell people that I fly unless it's on an aviation forum. They instantly assume I'm the monopoly guy, and it absolutely changes the relationship dynamic.
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farangutan said:
I think the shyness about incomes within a company is to the benefit of employers and not employees. Outside of a company it is more personal and I would think more appropriate in a conversation among friends.
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I wholeheartedly agree with you, @schmookeeg. The way @farangutan put it is more in line with where I was going in terms of sharing salary/income among co-workers vs. socially. Although, even in a conversation among friends, I still find it to be off-putting and avoid it at all costs.
 
I'm pretty sure there was a three month period in 1987 when I could totally afford my airplane and all the expenses it incurred.
 
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