Taboo thread - How do we afford to fly?

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Matt Goodrich

Pre-Flight
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Poulsbo, WA
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Matt
In other parts of the internet I frequent, people are more often open about how they make and spend money. Thought giving it a shot here could be interesting. I’ve always been curious how people are able to afford such nice airplanes. I looked for similar threads, but didn’t find any. In the spirit of trust I’ll go first.

Age: 33
Current Plane: 1975 Cessna 182P (All steam gauges, No GPS)
Partnership: Yes, 1/5
Buy-In: $17,000
Monthly: $85
Hourly: $25/hr Dry
Annual Gross Income: $380,500
Dream Plane: Bonanza A36 with modern avionics

Between our mortgage, car payments, monthly spending, two kids in daycare, and our savings goal every month I’m in a comfortable spot. Hoping once kids are a bit older and cost less than our house every month we can talk about that next plane. The partnership has been great so far, but I’m already finding things like being able to leave a car seat in the plane may eventually drive me to having my own bird.
 
I make less than half of that but live beneath my means, and have no payments on anything, put away half my gross income for retirement and fly a Comanche with no partners.

No wife or crotch fruit.
 
I'll participate, but with a bit of modification around some personal details I don't share with people beyond my wife and the IRS.

Age: 35
Current Plane: 1976 Piper Archer (All steam gauges)
Partnership: No, flight school rental
Buy-In: $0
Monthly: $0
Hourly: $195/hr Wet
Occupation: Attorney
Dream Plane: Probably a Piper Saratoga, but someone once said to just get a Bo.
 
I was brought up to pay cash, only allowed to get a mortgage on the house (paid it off in 8 years), financed the car for 6 months. Currently at a 6 figure job for 14 months. This is the longest I've stayed at a job in 20 years, since I left Boeing (other than teaching college). Biggest monthly bill is the hangar rent. I've attempted to retire 4 times (starting in my late 40s) but get bored and go back to work. This weekend's project is installing a couple new side windows on the cherokee and working ground for the first Young Eagle event in over 2 years.

Age: Over 21
Current airplane: Cherokee 180. It's mine, all mine! Except the insurance company really owns it but lets me play with it and pay all the bills.
Occupation: Why yes, I am a rocket scientist.
Monthly/Hourly: If you have to ask....
Dream plane: I'm happy with the cherokee. Plain, stupid, simple. Every shop knows how to fix it. Very little that can go wrong.
 
Age: Older than 33
Current Plane: 1969 PA28R-200 Arrow. 1/2 steam gauges. 1/2 not steam gauges. GPS.
Partnership: Yes 1/2 co-owner
Buy-In: Half of what we paid fer it.
Monthly: Depends. Hangar is like $350 or somethin. Insurance is... a bunch, but not twin-crazy. GPS updates. Lots of other stuff....
Hourly: Depends on how much we paid for le gas.
Annual Gross Income: Since I am in Virginia, I go by the Virginia Annual Gross Income, or VAGI. I am not allowed to say... but I do IT-like-stuff.
Dream Plane: Are you saying my dream plane isn't a 1969 Arrow with a franken-panel and a vintage interior that smells like sweat, 100LL exhaust and old puke? How dare you.
 
1982 Bowers Fly Baby (homebuilt)
Purchase price (1996): $10,000 (probably worth about the same today)
Annual maintenance: Average $200 (more this year, replaced the generator with an alternator. Total cost ~$700.)
Yearly Condition Inspection: $300
Hangar: $6,600/year

Why, yes, I pay the equivalent of the value of my airplane on hangar rent every ~18 months. But it's a very NICE hangar, less than ten minutes from where I live. I could share with another airplane and cut that in half, though I like being able to just leave the airplane spread out when I work on it. Could probably also find people willing to partner on it, but hey, it's nice that it's my very own.

Afford it by being a well-paid aerospace engineer/now a RETIRED aerospace engineer. No fancy cars (3-year-old Honda Civic), not much booze, no tobacco, no other expensive vices.

Ron Wanttaja
 
Can't get into particulars but as a less affluent fella than most on here I had to build my plane from left over parts and put a car engine in it. I have a certificate to do my own maintenance and inspections too. I squeak when I walk as much as I can ...
 
I am what most people around here call a bean counter. They blame me for everything that is wrong in the world. But I count my beans well and buys meself an airplane. Piper Lance. Sole owner but I have a CFI friend who gets access to it by paying the hangar rent. My insurance is insane. And the plane guzzles gas.

Does that help?
 
I’m over 33 by a pretty good margin, but not retired quite yet.

1/3 owner of an RV-12. I bought it outright, then two other guys bought in.

We each pay $100 per month to cover the hangar rent and insurance. Flying costs is $33 per hour wet, including an engine reserve.

And I’m from middle America... we don’t talk about how much money we make.
 
Age: 62
Current airplane(s): 172, 150, Rans S6S, RV9A
Partnership: 1/2 with my brother in the 172 and the S6S, I own the 150 and the RV9A myself
Buy-in: 1/2 of what we paid for the 172 & S6S (cash), paid cash for the 150 and paid for the RV as I built it
Hangar rent: I live on an airport and own the hangars
Hourly/monthly: Just fill it with gas
Occupation: Vo-tech educated ditch digger
Income: not near enough
Dream plane: ???? dunno yet
 
Bought the aircraft with my father. Owner assisted maintenance, slowly making my way through flight training, as is my dad. Tie-down, no hangar, Cherokee 140 so not a 100k aircraft.
 
worked Two jobs concurrently most of my life. Always had a partner who paid the fixed costs. Being an A&P I did all the work. Flying jobs I had usually didn't pay well enough for an airplane and a family. Currently trying to get rid of my second income producers so I can really retire. Always paid cash for everything, and paid myself first. So maybe now I can actually really afford a plane on my own.
So I'm looking, not owning at the moment. Hopefully soon. I need to make sure what I have accumulated can get us through the rest of our lives. I can't ever make it back.
 
I think these sorta threads always devolve into humblebragging, but why not..


Age: 44

Current Plane: 68 Baron D55, IO-550 converted, 530W with all the "middle class" avionics and equipment trimmings. No glass or interest in it.

Partnership: No

Buy-In: Enough, in cash

Monthly: I budget $15,000 for "Hour Zero", to include insurance, annual, and squawks. I'm an A&P, but not a good one, so I can deal with minor annoying nits on my own. My hangar costs me nothing.

Hourly: After setting aside the above sum, I figure somewhere in the $300 range. Up to half of that is fuel, rest is reserves

Annual Gross Income: Adequate

Dream Plane: Merlin 3


No kids. Wife has her own finances. No mortgage. West Coast techie income x 25 years.
 
42 Years old
Built a Sonex over a 10 year period for $15,000
Hourly cost is between $15 and $25 an hour at at 5gph depending on if I run mogas or 100LL
Tie down is $55 a month
Insurance is $450 a year for liability
Annuals run about $200 as I do them myself and just have to pay for parts or materials
A brand new engine from the factory is only 8K should something catastrophic happen

Most people spend way more on fast food each year than I do on my sonex. Aircraft ownership is within the reach of most people. It’s just a matter of priorities.
 
Age: 37
Current Plane: 1966 Cessna 150F
Partnership: Yes, 1/3
Buy-In: $4,500
Monthly: $0
Hourly: $10/hr Dry + Mogas - $18/hr
Annual Gross Income: $50,000
Dream Plane: Hahaha

Built myself a house (like actually built by hand, not "we built a house" like HGTV (no mortgage).
Plus wife and one kid.
 
I believe the secret is to not add it up and certainly don’t tell the wife what you spend. With that, you can afford almost anything.

my budget is < 15k/year for 100 hours. Once the kid is out of college, that will easily be met and still have enough for charity and retirement.
 
schmookeeg said:
I think these sorta threads always devolve into humblebragging, but why not..
Click to expand...

Yeah the guys that owned or lease jets will chime in and say their 20 million dollars in the bank isn't enough, and complain to the rest of us peons that they aren't getting ahead fast enough.
 
I got in the game early, at age 30, three years after landing my first real job with a professional wage. I spent an insanely large fraction of my annual income on my Traveler, thanks to landing a large research grant at that time. Such was the desire to fly and not rent sketchy rides. After the initial expense, ownership and incremental upgrades weren't so bad, and my income grew faster than my airplane expenses. I've kept it current ever so gradually: IFR GPS, AP, ADS-B, G5s, and a MOH, hp upgrade, and prop STC 10 years ago. I'm at the point that I don't worry about upgrade or repair expenses. If I could afford the downtime, I'd put on a fresh coat of paint. But paint doesn't make the plane fly...I think the key is to not keep too close a track on what it costs, as long as you are not losjng ground on your bank or retirement accounts. I managed that, and retired early.

My dream plane would be a straight tail Bo or Cirrus, and I could afford it, but at my age, the Traveler is pretty decent speed for regional travel and even longer trips without breaking the bank for insurance. I can live with 115-120 kt and 7.5 gph.
 
43
No airplane
Sold a helicopter a couple years ago.
It was expensive but it earned its keep

I do smoke cigars and drink fancy brown liquor. Could probably find an airplane for the equivalent cost.

I’ll have an airplane when I make more money I guess.
 
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I do not begrudge a nice income for anyone. Good for you!!.. Our family is very comfortable as well.
That said, I find it odd someone is asking “how do we afford it”, and then posting an income of $380k..??
 
Velocity173 said:
Aerostar
Click to expand...
Yes!!

schmookeeg said:
Merlin 3
Click to expand...
I recently learned about Merlins.. they're a proper beast! Figured they're beyond something I could hope to safely own. Cool looking though, and FAST

Wagondriver said:
Its not about what it costs. Its what I enjoy doing and I have the money
Click to expand...
Exactly!


-----SHORT RANT-----
It might be a cultural thing, but to this day I don't know how much my dad made or how much money he has. I always taught that this was something that was rude to ask, and rude to disclose, and generally in poor form. It shouldn't matter if you earn $36K or $800K per year.. who cares? What value does it bring to any discussion or friendship. My mom never worked, her TC / AGI was $0. Does that diminish her value as a human? It's just a circle jerk thing for people with low self esteem who need to brag or some kind of "yeah but how much do you lift bro" thing. Exhausting. You never heard Frasier talk about his money, or Chuck Norris, or James Bond, or Maverick, or the Dos Equis man, or Thomas Crown, or any of the great literary heroes. So I don't know where this came from, the need to share income details. But I digress. No offense to the OP, and he did preface it with "taboo" so shame on me I guess

At any rate, this seems to be some "new" trend or unique to certain parts of the US, because I'm seeing more and more of this lately. My closest friends have never shared what they make, and money just doesn't come up, at least not overtly. It's like politics. You have some idea, but cultured people don't just come out and blab about their income or their views. Yet I have other relatively close friends who will openly call me to discuss their TC, promotions, etc. "Dude I accepted the job at HBO, total comp is at $225K.." <- why do I need to know that?

Do you guys ever read Blind (forum for mostly tech elites).. it's crazy what people share. And it's always under the guise of "seeking advice" when really it's someone looking to brag, or something else. You'll see posts like "I'm 26 years old, my TC is $500K and net worth stands at $2,8M. Should I buy more DOGE? I bought $75K worth of it when it was $0.12" <- really dude? Go fly a kite.
-----BACK TO THE TOPIC AT HAND-----

Age: 34
Current Plane: loser who rents.. currently it's an Aztec, 10-15 hrs per month, $315/hr - WET. It's not the fastest or prettiest but I'm the only guy at the fly out who can take 4 people, or 6! and gas and gear.. and still climb out at 1000 fpm and cruise 160+ knots. Anyway, in order of most to least recent.. last 5 years
-SR22NA: $335 hr/wet
-SR22TN G3: $225 hr/dry
-SR22T G5: $300 hr/dry
-PA-28-181 '79: $120 hr/wet
-C-172N '77(?): $120 hr/wet
..I fly an average of 120-150 hrs per year.. so do the math
Partnership: No, again, loser who rents
Buy-In: nil
Monthly: $35? (I don't even know, it auto renews, but it's something like that)
Hourly: See above
Annual Gross Income: Enough that outside of outlandish purchases I've never had to worry about "can I afford this"
Dream Plane:
-Most realistic, Aerostar
-Less realistic, BE-103
-Even Less realistic, Avanti
-Even even less realistic, the one jet Aerostar that's flying around
-Total pipe dream, something I could single pilot but also put my car in, to solve the whole "how do I get around when I get there" dilemma.. there are some cheap Soviet AN-12 for sale around the world. Not legal in the US but with enough money and some clever paperwork I'm sure you could fly one around here as an experimental at least. I don't know what the smallest thing is you can drive a Jeep or FJ Cruiser into.. C-160 Transall maybe? C-119 Flying Boxcar?
 
Tarheelpilot said:
43
No airplane
Sold a helicopter a year couple years ago.
It was expensive but it earned its keep

I do smoke cigars and drink fancy brown liquor. Could probably find an airplane for the equivalent cost.

I’ll have an airplane when I make more money I guess.
Click to expand...
Having a nice cigar and bourbon at this very moment!!
 
Tantalum said:
Yes!!


I recently learned about Merlins.. they're a proper beast! Figured they're beyond something I could hope to safely own. Cool looking though, and FAST


Exactly!


-----SHORT RANT-----
It might be a cultural thing, but to this day I don't know how much my dad made or how much money he has. I always taught that this was something that was rude to ask, and rude to disclose, and generally in poor form. It shouldn't matter if you earn $36K or $800K per year.. who cares? What value does it bring to any discussion or friendship. My mom never worked, her TC / AGI was $0. Does that diminish her value as a human? It's just a circle jerk thing for people with low self esteem who need to brag or some kind of "yeah but how much do you lift bro" thing. Exhausting. You never heard Frasier talk about his money, or Chuck Norris, or James Bond, or Maverick, or the Dos Equis man, or Thomas Crown, or any of the great literary heroes. So I don't know where this came from, the need to share income details. But I digress. No offense to the OP, and he did preface it with "taboo" so shame on me I guess

At any rate, this seems to be some "new" trend or unique to certain parts of the US, because I'm seeing more and more of this lately. My closest friends have never shared what they make, and money just doesn't come up, at least not overtly. It's like politics. You have some idea, but cultured people don't just come out and blab about their income or their views. Yet I have other relatively close friends who will openly call me to discuss their TC, promotions, etc. "Dude I accepted the job at HBO, total comp is at $225K.." <- why do I need to know that?

Do you guys ever read Blind (forum for mostly tech elites).. it's crazy what people share. And it's always under the guise of "seeking advice" when really it's someone looking to brag, or something else. You'll see posts like "I'm 26 years old, my TC is $500K and net worth stands at $2,8M. Should I buy more DOGE? I bought $75K worth of it when it was $0.12" <- really dude? Go fly a kite.
-----BACK TO THE TOPIC AT HAND-----

Age: 34
Current Plane: loser who rents.. currently it's an Aztec, 10-15 hrs per month, $315/hr - WET. It's not the fastest or prettiest but I'm the only guy at the fly out who can take 4 people, or 6! and gas and gear.. and still climb out at 1000 fpm and cruise 160+ knots. Anyway, in order of most to least recent.. last 5 years
-SR22NA: $335 hr/wet
-SR22TN G3: $225 hr/dry
-SR22T G5: $300 hr/dry
-PA-28-181 '79: $120 hr/wet
-C-172N '77(?): $120 hr/wet
..I fly an average of 120-150 hrs per year.. so do the math
Partnership: No, again, loser who rents
Buy-In: nil
Monthly: $35? (I don't even know, it auto renews, but it's something like that)
Hourly: See above
Annual Gross Income: Enough that outside of outlandish purchases I've never had to worry about "can I afford this"
Dream Plane:
-Most realistic, Aerostar
-Less realistic, BE-103
-Even Less realistic, Avanti
-Even even less realistic, the one jet Aerostar that's flying around
-Total pipe dream, something I could single pilot but also put my car in, to solve the whole "how do I get around when I get there" dilemma.. there are some cheap Soviet AN-12 for sale around the world. Not legal in the US but with enough money and some clever paperwork I'm sure you could fly one around here as an experimental at least. I don't know what the smallest thing is you can drive a Jeep or FJ Cruiser into.. C-160 Transall maybe? C-119 Flying Boxcar?
Click to expand...
With you on the income thing. What I make is between me, my employer, the irs and since I'm single...my dog. If you want to share, great I don't care what you make, but I'll probably judge you on your need to boost your own ego. If someone finds out what I make, they're snooping for something they have no business snooping for.
 
EdFred said:
Yeah the guys that owned or lease jets will chime in and say their 20 million dollar kerosene burner hasn't enough range, and complain to the rest of us peons that they aren't getting up over the weather fast enough.
Click to expand...

FTFY :D

Matt Goodrich said:
...I’ve always been curious how people are able to afford such nice airplanes...
Click to expand...

My wife has horses.
I own two airplanes ONLY because I think it's my duty to give her some solid competition in the race to bankrupt the family first.

Age: Getting older, but I'll never grow up.
Current Planes: 1979 Piper Aztec and 1996 Aviat A-1 Husky.
Partnership: Aztec, no; Husky, yes, with my kid brother (who flies Boeing 787s in his spare time away from the Husky)
Buy-In: The horses disapprove
Cost to own and fly: Too much
Annual Gross Income: Not enough
Dream Plane: Whatever I am flying at that moment.

And every now and then when I run out of scotch ;)
XO.jpg
 
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Age: 53
Current Plane: 1978 Cessna 172N O-360 (All steam gauges, No GPS)
Partnership: No
Buy-In: Wife
Monthly: $186 (hangar)
Hourly: I don't play that game...
Annual Gross Income: Enough that I received < $50 for all COVID-19 giveaways (not that I'm bitter. Well, maybe a little...)
Dream Plane: North American P-51D
 
Tarheelpilot said:
Elijah Craig
Click to expand...

Elijah Craig is one of my go to bourbons, and his cheap little brother Evan Williams white label is pretty damned good for an "inexpensive" bourbon. I'm also a fan of Jameson, but prefer the Jameson Black Barrel. A little mo money, but oh so smooth!
 
Bill said:
Elijah Craig is one of my go to bourbons, and his cheap little brother Evan Williams white label is pretty damned good for an "inexpensive" bourbon. I'm also a fan of Jameson, but prefer the Jameson Black Barrel. A little mo money, but oh so smooth!
Click to expand...
I haven’t tried the black barrel. I was drinking the stout edition which I find enjoyable.

One of my favorite every day bourbons is the rebel 100 from rebel yell. It’s $19 for a 750 and is very good. And the Evan Williams single barrel. Also way better than the price… actually there are quite a few that I really like.
 
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