Tablet choice

Ken Ibold

Ken Ibold

Final Approach
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Feb 21, 2005
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Jacksonville, Florida
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Display name:
Ken Ibold
Once again I turn to my favorite group of pilots for advice on a computer. Go figure.

Thinking of getting *someone* (not me) a tablet for some upcoming pagan holiday. I don't want to get into the whole "I love my iPad" thing, but seriously, the mission will mostly involve email, ebooks and mobile browsing. I do not want to pay yet another cell phone bill (5 is enough!), so I will make do with a wi-fi only unit. Clearly something as simple as a smartphone can do that. However, there is one other requirement ...

We are serious amateur photographers, and have a small sideline business doing sports photography. When you go to an event and take 3500 frames, however, you then have to sort them. We would like to use the tablet to enable us to sort the pix on the go, when we currently have small chunks of downtime, without hauling around a laptop. So, we need a couple of things: USB or SD chip connectivity makes the most sense for getting the pix to and from the machine, although I'm willing to submit to wireless file sharing if I have to. I'd just as soon keep this a local function and not embark on cloud storage, thankyouverymuch. But a bigger element in this task is the ease of handling the picture files. On a laptop, we nest folders called "use", "funny", "trash", "maybe" etc and then drag and drop one by one into the appropriate folder. We'd be OK with another labeling method as long as it was quick, easy, and transferred back to the laptop when we were done. With thousands of frames to sort, this is a critical element of the decision, and it MUST be easy. There will be no photo manipulation at this stage. Perhaps limited cropping or exposure compensation would be nice, but no need for photoshop.

Any suggestions? iPad 2, Galaxy Tab 10.1, other???
 
Well, I was about to say that the iPad was pretty good fit except for the connectivity, anid then Spike has to go and provide the solution for that deficiency. :)
 
gprellwitz said:
Well, I was about to say that the iPad was pretty good fit except for the connectivity, anid then Spike has to go and provide the solution for that deficiency. :)
Click to expand...

Caught me by surprise, too, Grant. :D
 
Ken Ibold said:
Once again I turn to my favorite group of pilots for advice on a computer. Go figure.

Thinking of getting *someone* (not me) a tablet for some upcoming pagan holiday. I don't want to get into the whole "I love my iPad" thing, but seriously, the mission will mostly involve email, ebooks and mobile browsing. I do not want to pay yet another cell phone bill (5 is enough!), so I will make do with a wi-fi only unit. Clearly something as simple as a smartphone can do that. However, there is one other requirement ...

We are serious amateur photographers, and have a small sideline business doing sports photography. When you go to an event and take 3500 frames, however, you then have to sort them. We would like to use the tablet to enable us to sort the pix on the go, when we currently have small chunks of downtime, without hauling around a laptop. So, we need a couple of things: USB or SD chip connectivity makes the most sense for getting the pix to and from the machine, although I'm willing to submit to wireless file sharing if I have to. I'd just as soon keep this a local function and not embark on cloud storage, thankyouverymuch. But a bigger element in this task is the ease of handling the picture files. On a laptop, we nest folders called "use", "funny", "trash", "maybe" etc and then drag and drop one by one into the appropriate folder. We'd be OK with another labeling method as long as it was quick, easy, and transferred back to the laptop when we were done. With thousands of frames to sort, this is a critical element of the decision, and it MUST be easy. There will be no photo manipulation at this stage. Perhaps limited cropping or exposure compensation would be nice, but no need for photoshop.

Any suggestions? iPad 2, Galaxy Tab 10.1, other???
Click to expand...

Due to the lack of folder-sorting abilities inherent in Apple devices, I have to suggest an Android device for the job. If you look for the right device, you'll find USB support built in, without the need for external connection points.

Since you want a good camera, I'd suggest either the ASUS Transformer or the ASUS Transformer Slider. Both are inexpensive, have great cameras (Which no one can claim about the iPad of any generation), and can do HD video recording at 720P. There's also the Motorola Xoom, but its expensive.

You can get off for about $479 (slider) or $399 (the original Transformer).

Note - I have that device, and its still a great device, months after release. I got it back in May. You don't hear that often in the tech world.
 
Thanks, guys. I haven't used an Apple in years -- many operating systems ago. I'll go check them out. I have been playing with the Android system on my phones to figure out if they'll do file sorting, and can't figure out a way to make it work.

As for cameras, Nick, we shoot on real cameras. Have a slew of very high quality DSLRs so no worries there. But are you saying the file sorting function on the iPad is poor? Comparing it to Windows.
 
Ken Ibold said:
Thanks, guys. I haven't used an Apple in years -- many operating systems ago. I'll go check them out. I have been playing with the Android system on my phones to figure out if they'll do file sorting, and can't figure out a way to make it work.

As for cameras, Nick, we shoot on real cameras. Have a slew of very high quality DSLRs so no worries there. But are you saying the file sorting function on the iPad is poor? Comparing it to Windows.
Click to expand...

Even without the comparison to Windows, you have no access to the file system on an iPad. You can't create folders, and you can't organize files in folders.

With Android, you can either use the built in file explorer (3.0 or higher), or download a file manager like Astro to do it for you.

Unless something has changed, and I doubt it has due to Jobs' stubbornness, you simply can't do that on an iDevice.

Knowing what you just said, btw, there is this:
https://market.android.com/details?id=eu.chainfire.dslrcontroller&hl=en

And a few others that do that as well...
 
Ken,

We hashed a little of this in a thread a few months ago, and a few iPad photo management apps were discussed there:

http://www.pilotsofamerica.com/forum/showthread.php?t=43811

The built-in iOS photo app didn't have any real organizing capability. I'm guessing Apple's thinking was that iPhoto on your main computer was supposed to handle that. I'm not sure how much things have changed with the new iOS 5.

One other concern: you say you shoot around 3500 frames. At how many MB per photo? 3500 x say 4 MB per photo would put you around 14 GB, which would strain a 16 GB tablet. Given that, does it need to be a tablet? If you're needing lightness and storage, you might want to look at a Macbook Air.
 
Ken,

To add to Nick and Rich's comments, I find the iPad to be good for viewing photos, less so for sorting & sending the sorted photos back to another device. The CCK that Spike posted should be fine if you're using SD cards - unfortunately I'm shooting a couple of high-end Canon cameras that use CF. It is distinctly harder to deal with CF-based cameras - one must use the USB download capability.

The iPad does not deal with RAW formats well, at all. I shoot RAW+jpeg.

I've got a couple of apps running on the iPad 2 form a bit of a kludgy way of moving photos about. My goal was to download from camera into iPad, do limited manipulation, and then upload to a NAS server at home (without connecting to a computer & using iTunes). It takes a couple of apps and more manipulation that I care for to do that. There's a strong push to use iCloud, but I really don't want my photos sitting in the cloud (nor do I want to deal with the upload times over the internet). With VPN I can connect to my NAS box from pretty much anywhere.

All that said, I'm not sure Android is any better. I'd probably look at Samsung Galaxy tablets as well as Apple if I were you. Also look in the various photo forums.

The iPad wasn't really designed to do much in the way of photo/library manipulation.
 
I guess what it boils down to is that I want to do a windows 7 windows explorer preview pane on a touch screen tablet. We have 6 laptops as it is, so I'm wondering how much I need this anyway.
 
Samsung Q1.

But that's really bigger than a "tablet."
 
Ooh. If it can communicate via apple plug, on USB that means printing to a non apple base station (and NOT through HP's c_appy Airprint solution) might be possible....
 
bbchien said:
Ooh. If it can communicate via apple plug, on USB that means printing to a non apple base station (and NOT through HP's c_appy Airprint solution) might be possible....
Click to expand...

Don't count on it, Bruce. I am unable to even write photos back out to the memory card via the Camera Kit (I wanted to back up photos to a memory card). I doubt that one can send to a priinter that way. Heck, I can't even print to my networked postscript laser printer via the iPad wireless connection....
 
bbchien said:
Ooh. If it can communicate via apple plug, on USB that means printing to a non apple base station (and NOT through HP's c_appy Airprint solution) might be possible....
Click to expand...

I just got a Canon MG5320 wireless printer. Canon's current free Airprint solutions just works from Mac, PC, iPhone and iPod and Android. Get the free Canon app from the app stores.

I was even able to set up the printer without even plugging in anything other than power. The computers find it over WiFi.
 
Mike, Apple's owner site is just loaded with comments about how impossible this is with iPAD. If YOU can make it happen, I'd buy one in a heartbeat, though I'd prefer a b/w laser.

Bill I know. I owned an iPAD1 for 24 hours in Jan 2010 and discovered the printer foibles....sigh.
 
bbchien said:
Ooh. If it can communicate via apple plug, on USB that means printing to a non apple base station (and NOT through HP's c_appy Airprint solution) might be possible....
Click to expand...

Not to hijack but there's plenty of hacks for both Mac and Windows machines to "share" a printer out as an "AirPrint" printer to the iOS devices, assuming you're on a WiFi network that also has at least one "always on" computer attached to any printer.

But agreed, there's no good way to print from iOS on someone else's network and unknown printers...

There's "hope" with the USB connector but only jail broken. Apple doesn't include any of the USB drivers for printers via USB in iOS.

Now back to the photo stuff. The Apple CCK for iPad comes with two adapters. One USB, one CF reader. I shoot on a Sony A55 and stuff the CF card into the reader and transfer stuff to iPad just to get it off the camera and/or to take a peek on a bigger screen. It transfers both the RAW and the JPG to the iPad "Photos" app but sorting and manipulating them there would be awful.

I later sync the iPad into Aperture on the MBP and do the heavy lifting there.

Or, if I have the MBP with me, it's usually simpler to bypass the iPad altogether and just put the CF card into the built in CF reader on the iPad and import direct into Aperture.

Aperture is designed as a "workflow" application more than an editor like say, Photoshop. Comparing Aperture to something like Lightroom is more apt than to PS. It does have some editing capability and usually can do far more than I need. There's also things to watch out for in the setup of Aperture if you're mixing and matching tools. Aperture "likes" to suck everything into its "database" and if you don't, it's pretty easy to get originals and edited versions "detached" from each other, so to speak. Aperture tries to keep track of "versions" which it seems to do best if it has control of where everything is stored. But you can override it.

Also have to be cautious when setting up iTunes for transfers from the iPad to the machine on a Mac, since all Macs have iPhoto as the default "consumer" application, and iPad to iTunes will put everything in iPhoto by default, not Aperture... Unless you tell it that you prefer Aperture.

I like the integration of the Apple stuff for my admittedly amateur photo stuff. But I'd not really recommend iPad or a Windows-based iTunes dump from iPad to a laptop/desktop for a pro, unless they'd spent some serious time figuring out their own personal workflow for that. iPad plus CCK doesn't add much to the organization or workflow process beyond being able to view things at the shoot without dragging the laptop out. It's great for that.

I end up using it because the Sony A55 can't shoot in "tethered" mode. Have been thinking about customizing something with an EyeFi card to get that functionality direct to the MBP. I would like tethered style shooting in the airplane when in the right or rear seats. If the iPad would do tethered stuff for a real-time display of shots so I could pinch-zoom to look at detail, I'd be in hog heaven.
 
bbchien said:
Mike, Apple's owner site is just loaded with comments about how impossible this is with iPAD. If YOU can make it happen, I'd buy one in a heartbeat, though I'd prefer a b/w laser.

Bill I know. I owned an iPAD1 for 24 hours in Jan 2010 and discovered the printer foibles....sigh.
Click to expand...

So there's no chance that new software has come out or been updated in 2 years?
 
denverpilot said:
Not to hijack but there's plenty of hacks for both Mac and Windows machines to "share" a printer out as an "AirPrint" printer to the iOS devices, assuming you're on a WiFi network that also has at least one "always on" computer attached to any printer.

But agreed, there's no good way to print from iOS on someone else's network and unknown printers...

There's "hope" with the USB connector but only jail broken. Apple doesn't include any of the USB drivers for printers via USB in iOS.

Now back to the photo stuff. The Apple CCK for iPad comes with two adapters. One USB, one CF reader. I shoot on a Sony A55 and stuff the CF card into the reader and transfer stuff to iPad just to get it off the camera and/or to take a peek on a bigger screen. It transfers both the RAW and the JPG to the iPad "Photos" app but sorting and manipulating them there would be awful.

I later sync the iPad into Aperture on the MBP and do the heavy lifting there.

Or, if I have the MBP with me, it's usually simpler to bypass the iPad altogether and just put the CF card into the built in CF reader on the iPad and import direct into Aperture.

Aperture is designed as a "workflow" application more than an editor like say, Photoshop. Comparing Aperture to something like Lightroom is more apt than to PS. It does have some editing capability and usually can do far more than I need. There's also things to watch out for in the setup of Aperture if you're mixing and matching tools. Aperture "likes" to suck everything into its "database" and if you don't, it's pretty easy to get originals and edited versions "detached" from each other, so to speak. Aperture tries to keep track of "versions" which it seems to do best if it has control of where everything is stored. But you can override it.

Also have to be cautious when setting up iTunes for transfers from the iPad to the machine on a Mac, since all Macs have iPhoto as the default "consumer" application, and iPad to iTunes will put everything in iPhoto by default, not Aperture... Unless you tell it that you prefer Aperture.

I like the integration of the Apple stuff for my admittedly amateur photo stuff. But I'd not really recommend iPad or a Windows-based iTunes dump from iPad to a laptop/desktop for a pro, unless they'd spent some serious time figuring out their own personal workflow for that. iPad plus CCK doesn't add much to the organization or workflow process beyond being able to view things at the shoot without dragging the laptop out. It's great for that.

I end up using it because the Sony A55 can't shoot in "tethered" mode. Have been thinking about customizing something with an EyeFi card to get that functionality direct to the MBP. I would like tethered style shooting in the airplane when in the right or rear seats. If the iPad would do tethered stuff for a real-time display of shots so I could pinch-zoom to look at detail, I'd be in hog heaven.
Click to expand...

Minor nit: the CCK is SD or USB only - CF is NOT supported, and Apple has implemented limits on the USB side so a multi-card or (most) CF adapter cannot be used.

It really is horrid workflow for photos on an iPad. The iPad is really an expensive electonic photo frame as it comes, and the limitations make it harder to even use apps to improve the workflow..... I still have to carry my netbook.
 
Ahh crap. Sorry. You're right. SD is the largest format "sticks" I use these days.

I haven't done anything on CF other than stuff Linux onto them in an IDE adapter for booting small appliance PCs from, in years.

I think one old Nikon point and shoot we have from the 3-5 megapixel days still uses it, but that camera lives in a glovebox now as a "holy cow I should take a photo of that!" spare camera.
 
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