I have a fair amount of dual training from about 2 years ago, including some solo, I recently decided to try and finally complete my training, I completed the written by studying the sportys online course, I visited a school in my area that is part 141 and they explained that it shouldn't be a problem to switch to 141 instead of 61 even with so many hours logged, since they will stage check to see my current qualifications and proceed with training from that point. Who could please give me some insight to my options, and how switching to 141 now would impact the time it might take me to get my Private certificate? Anything else I should know or be aware of? Thank you
Switching to 141 during training?
- Thread starter PPL747
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Larry in TN
En-Route
What is the benefit to you of switching to part 141? If you can't find one--a really big one--then it probably isn't worthwhile.
Larry in TN
En-Route
A 141 program is very structured. That's fine in a university or professional pilot type program but it is very inflexible. Unless it is part of a university program, or your financing requires it, I'd prefer a part 61 program and I've taught, and trained, under both.
Most schools that have 141 programs also can teach part 61 students. The ones that don't are usually university programs or, perhaps, schools that work primarily with foreign students who's financing is tied to the 141 program. Part 61 schools that also offer a 141 option often have it for students training with VA benefits.
The 141 programs, with which I've been involved, handle new students with existing training fairly well when they enter in between ratings. i.e. after Private but prior to Instrument, etc. Entering mis-stream on a rating is more difficult as the syllabus doesn't allow a lot of flexibility for checking what is already learned and finding the right entry point into the syllabus. It's very likely to result in more repetition of previously learned lessons and more money overall. In your case, you take a stage check and pass some tasks but not others because your previous training wasn't organized in the same fashion as the school's 141 syllabus.
Why can't this school train you under part 61? It's unusual for non-university schools to do only part 141 training.
Most schools that have 141 programs also can teach part 61 students. The ones that don't are usually university programs or, perhaps, schools that work primarily with foreign students who's financing is tied to the 141 program. Part 61 schools that also offer a 141 option often have it for students training with VA benefits.
The 141 programs, with which I've been involved, handle new students with existing training fairly well when they enter in between ratings. i.e. after Private but prior to Instrument, etc. Entering mis-stream on a rating is more difficult as the syllabus doesn't allow a lot of flexibility for checking what is already learned and finding the right entry point into the syllabus. It's very likely to result in more repetition of previously learned lessons and more money overall. In your case, you take a stage check and pass some tasks but not others because your previous training wasn't organized in the same fashion as the school's 141 syllabus.
Why can't this school train you under part 61? It's unusual for non-university schools to do only part 141 training.
Clip4
Touchdown! Greaser!
I don’t know what they told you, but you cannot transfer any of your ground or flight trading hours to meet 141 requirements. You can attend a school with a Part 141 certificate and start over or complete the training Part 61. A 141 school can complete you under Part 61.
Brad Z
Final Approach
POA seems to get a lot of 61 versus 141 threads. There also seems to be a lot of misunderstanding about the difference.
A part 141 flight school is an FAA certificated flight school. It has instructors, a chief instructor, perhaps an assistant chief instructor and check instructor. Every pilot course offered under part 141 includes a FAA approved curriculum. Some schools have examining authority, meaning a student doesn't need to do a practical test with a DPE because the checkride takes place in house. The major benefit of part 141 schools are 1) reduced hour requirements, and 2) the ability to fund portions of training with GI bill benefits. Also, many 141 programs are associated with universities, which allow one to obtain a restricted ATP with reduced pilot hours.
There are no prohibitions on a 141 school also conducting training under part 61. Many 141 schools only have a limited number of approved 141 curricula, and do other programs under 61. It all depends on what the school is approved for.
It really comes down to the program. You can apply the formality and structure of a 141 program to part 61 training. You still need to meet part 61 minimums and take a practical test with a DPE if you go this way, but there's nothing wrong with sound so. That said, most folks who go part 61 do so for the flexibility. No matter what you do, your instructor should be using a syllabus. In part 61, you have more flexibility to jump around a bit regarding the order of lessons, and you don't have to do stage checks (although many part 61 programs do them anyway).
so my advice is to discuss your needs, the schools offerings, and figure out what works best for you.
A part 141 flight school is an FAA certificated flight school. It has instructors, a chief instructor, perhaps an assistant chief instructor and check instructor. Every pilot course offered under part 141 includes a FAA approved curriculum. Some schools have examining authority, meaning a student doesn't need to do a practical test with a DPE because the checkride takes place in house. The major benefit of part 141 schools are 1) reduced hour requirements, and 2) the ability to fund portions of training with GI bill benefits. Also, many 141 programs are associated with universities, which allow one to obtain a restricted ATP with reduced pilot hours.
There are no prohibitions on a 141 school also conducting training under part 61. Many 141 schools only have a limited number of approved 141 curricula, and do other programs under 61. It all depends on what the school is approved for.
It really comes down to the program. You can apply the formality and structure of a 141 program to part 61 training. You still need to meet part 61 minimums and take a practical test with a DPE if you go this way, but there's nothing wrong with sound so. That said, most folks who go part 61 do so for the flexibility. No matter what you do, your instructor should be using a syllabus. In part 61, you have more flexibility to jump around a bit regarding the order of lessons, and you don't have to do stage checks (although many part 61 programs do them anyway).
so my advice is to discuss your needs, the schools offerings, and figure out what works best for you.
Jim Carpenter
Line Up and Wait
This, in a nutshell.
I believe, you will lose credit for outside training time, as specified in 141.77(b) and (c). The school in question should be able to show you exactly where you might stand hours-wise as far as credit. Switching would most likely be a major disadvantage, unless you are joining the 141 school with the idea of entering their full "career" program through commercial, CFI, etc. As mentioned, the school should be able to accommodate you as a Part 61 student, though I imagine some schools may not have room on the roster for students who aren't enrolled in the "whole" program. And, I think any 141 school must show a certain number of program-enrolled students per year, or whatever, in order to maintain their FAA certification (not sure on this, it's been awhile), thus their vested interest in "selling' the 141 side to prospective customers.
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Thank you all for your input, after reading all the above I would think that this part 141 wants to train me according to 61 but as per their 141 syllabus probably. They use the jeppesen PPL, but I'm concerned that to many hours are wasted on procedural stage checks etc. I think I'll pass on that option and go with a part 61 option. Thank you again
smv
Pattern Altitude
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smv
My one and only 61 to 141 story is one of unnecessary expense and zero certificates.
Already a certificated pilot with Private privileges for ASEL, ASES, and Glider. I figured adding Helicopter would be a fun thing to do... They would not take into account a single minute of my prior training nor any of my certificates and insisted on a minimum of 40 hours (per their curriculum) in helicopters. As I was preaparing for my checkride the school went bankrupt.
A bright spot in all this is that I do have 4.0 hours Solo/PIC in helicopters in my logbook.
Already a certificated pilot with Private privileges for ASEL, ASES, and Glider. I figured adding Helicopter would be a fun thing to do... They would not take into account a single minute of my prior training nor any of my certificates and insisted on a minimum of 40 hours (per their curriculum) in helicopters. As I was preaparing for my checkride the school went bankrupt.
A bright spot in all this is that I do have 4.0 hours Solo/PIC in helicopters in my logbook.