Super Cub (Legend Cub) STOL contest incident

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Narwhal

Pre-takeoff checklist
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I'm interested in anyone who has analysis on this incident from an airshow/STOL contest last weekend. Minor incident overall, but as someone with a Super Cub clone in the works I wonder exactly what happened (other than too much braking). Hats off to airshow performers, it's risky business and I mean no disrespect to the pilot but only interested in analyzing for education.

Environmental factors? Bounce from the tailwheel shock absorber? Elevator control inputs? Flap position during landing rollout? Could anti-lock brakes i.e. Beringer ALIR system help prevent this?

 
Tail coming up and no airflow over the tail to bring it back down - just a little too much brake - could be just a little grab as it stopped - remember that little jerk as you come to a complete stop in your car?
 
Capt. Geoffrey Thorpe said:
Tail coming up and no airflow over the tail to bring it back down - just a little too much brake - could be just a little grab as it stopped - remember that little jerk as you come to a complete stop in your car?
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Yeah, but what does he have to do with it! ;)
 
He asked if Beringer brakes would have prevented it. Very specific. No mention of a nose wheel.

FWIW? Relocating the tailwheel to prevent accidents is like chopping off your Johnson to prevent pregnancy. It works but it ruins the fun.
 
Stewartb said:
He asked if Beringer brakes would have prevented it. Very specific. No mention of a nose wheel.

FWIW? Relocating the tailwheel to prevent accidents is like chopping off your Johnson to prevent pregnancy. It works but it ruins the fun.
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You said it man …. I figured this whole tailwheel thing is somewhat related to “the Johnson thing” … but to jump right into chopping things that early in a thread seems a bit rushed …
 
Says the man who's about to get one of his legs whittled on.
Might have to add the A model RV's as an exception to the list of preventing this. Seriously though, I feel for the guy who nosed over. They are pushing the limits in competition and at known greater risk doing it.
 
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Narwhal said:
Could anti-lock brakes i.e. Beringer ALIR system help prevent this?
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I'm not familiar with them so I couldn't say. I can say that I never felt the need for them. Super cubs can easily operate on some of the shortest strips you'll find. Just don't try to get the plane to do something its not capable of doing such as trying to make it land way shorter than the book says is possible and you'll be fine.*

*Before I get jumped on, I'm not saying a Super cub isn't capable of beating the book numbers for takeoff/landing. I'm just saying don't be the guy who tries to find out and you won't be the guy who ends up with a front row seat at the prop goes into the ground show.
 
He was going too fast. Watch the AOA. He uses full elevator to land and even with the long Stinger tail suspension he touched mains first. That doesn’t happen with slats unless you’re too fast. Then he forgot to retract flaps before getting on the brakes.
 
Narwhal said:
Could anti-lock brakes i.e. Beringer ALIR system help prevent this?
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Interesting question...at some low speed, all of the airplane anti skid systems that I’ve worked with are automatically deactivated so that you can actually stop.
 
MauleSkinner said:
Interesting question...at some low speed, all of the airplane anti skid systems that I’ve worked with are automatically deactivated so that you can actually stop.
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I am still trying to wrap my mind around a Cub with anti skid. I have around 500 hours in them , years ago, and never flew one with an electrical system.
 
Plano Pilot said:
I am still trying to wrap my mind around a Cub with anti skid. I have around 500 hours in them , years ago, and never flew one with an electrical system.
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They could use maxorets like the Hawkers...no electricity involved. ;)
 
The Super Cub that I used to fly, our mechanic just kept the brakes soft. Poor man’s anti-skid. :)
 
Stewartb said:
He asked if Beringer brakes would have prevented it. Very specific. No mention of a nose wheel.

FWIW? Relocating the tailwheel to prevent accidents is like chopping off your Johnson to prevent pregnancy. It works but it ruins the fun.
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well well put!
 
Anti lock brakes wouldn't have helped; the wheels didn't lock up and skid. He just braked too hard and the plane's inertia did the rest.
 
Braked too hard, let the stick go forward, not enough airflow on the tail, no weight in the back.... I'm far from an expert, so that's just my random musings.
 
Leaving the flaps out was bad form but at the speed he’s going when this happened flaps and elevator had nothing to do with it. Brake pressure was the only culprit. I presume Legend uses heel brakes. I hated my heel brakes. I really prefer the toe brakes in my current Cub, and while I’ve significantly increased brake power in my plane I don’t have any problem with fine brake control regardless of rudder position since the brake pedals ride on the rudder pedals. Norwhal’s new plane will have toe brakes.

Imagine having your feet stretched between rudders and heel brakes and the tail starts coming up. Instinctively I might brace myself for it. Hmm.
 
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