Suggestions about France/Italy from you worldly travelers?

Amen to that. Remember that there are subway paths under that circle so you can get to the Arc without risking life and limb crossing that 10 lane traffic circle. As a dumb 19 year old I crossed the traffic - once. Not once since. :D

Well if you join the German military you might also get a chance to march through it! They shut down traffic for those events! ;);):D
 
Amen to that. Remember that there are subway paths under that circle so you can get to the Arc without risking life and limb crossing that 10 lane traffic circle. As a dumb 19 year old I crossed the traffic - once. Not once since. :D

It's a lot more fun to drive around the circle during rush hour. In a car with a stick shift. :yes: Trust me on that... :D
 
In a somewhat different vein that doesn't seem to be on your radar, I'd highly, highly suggest Switzerland. We spent a week in Romandie, the French-speaking part of the country. It's a fantastic place, and there's absolutely no need for a car. The trains are all reasonably priced and ALWAYS run on time. I'm not exaggerating. Once the train left two minutes late, and the engineer apologized profusely and (here's a shocker) we arrived on time. We flew into Geneva (nonstop from Washington Dulles, IAD) but based ourselves in Lausanne, and our hotel was right across from the train station. Although I know this usually has a bad stigma, it was a nice part of town, and we could leave our room ten minutes before our train was scheduled to leave and make it easily. Connections from Lausanne are fantastic, because it's just after Lausanne that the main line from Geneva branches off to go to other places. Also, public transportation in Lausanne (metro and bus) is free to people staying in hotels in the city. You just walk up to the metro and hop on...it's really easy.

Also, the countryside is really stunning. We went up to the Alps twice, visited Geneva for a day, took the ferry across to Evian-les-bains, etc. In terms of going up to the Alps, you take the mainline train to another slightly smaller station, and from there take a narrow gauge train (see below) to the Alps. We also took one of the little trains to Gruyeres to see cheese and the Cailler chocolate factory, both in the same day. The cheese factory wasn't necessary, but it's right near the Cailler factory, which was absolutely worth it. I think I may have some pictures on this computer, but I'm not sure. I might take a look... Oh, and we only went to one museum our whole time there :). It was an art museum, which I'm not usually that into, but I have to say that it was a great museum. It was in Lausanne.

Actually one last story. We were on the train back from the Alps when we decided "meh, why not get off at some random stop and take the next train down? It's only an hour until the next one so if it's terrible, oh well." We jumped off and explored the lovely Swiss mountain town of Troistorrents. We wandered around for a while and found a store, bought some local bread and cheese, which was, needless to say, fantastic, and went to sit down and much on it for a bit. This was a Friday, and it turns out school was just about to get out, so a few minutes later, a million kids raced out of what was apparently into the school and into the shop we were just in to buy their Friday candies. This was probably my favorite experience of all in Switzerland, just because I felt like I was seeing the real Switzerland, and not all the museums, which you mentioned you're not as much a fan of. Point being, you might be interested in Switzerland. It's fantastic for the sort of "off the beaten track" sightseeing, because the public transportation is amazing and relatively inexpensive, and it's really easy.

Sorry for the rambling...feel free to ask questions here / pm if you like.

And here's the picture of the train as promised...at the biggest station on the route aside from the terminus where you make the connection between the mainline trains and these. I didn't take this picture, but isn't the train cute? :) Often they hook two of them together, but they really are little mountain trains!

15022.jpg
 
If you're in Paris, the Louvre might be a stop you want to make. If so, it's closed on Tuesday.
 
If you're interested in rural France I could ask a friend where she might suggest. I grew up with her in NJ but she lived in somewhere in the countryside of France for a number of years, came back to the US but is going back again. I think they have a cottage, or something you can rent but I'm not sure that it's ready yet.
 
Words about CH

I wholeheartedly agree. Switzerland is a beautiful country which is very under appreciated. It's a bit pricey, but there's a lot of culture in Switzerland. Their money also has a very soft feel.

I also agree on just getting off somewhere random. I remember when I was in Konstanz, my friends and I got bored, took a trip through the Black Forest, and got off at every stop. We would always see these small towns on the way to our transfers in Offingen, but we never did. I have to say, it was probably one of the coolest trips I took through Germany. Simply going off the beaten path will give you a good feel of a country's real culture.

Side rant: I remember my friends came to visit me in Germany. We traveled everywhere in Berlin and Amsterdam. I asked them where they wanted to eat in Amsterdam. Out of all the choices of new culture, they wanted to eat at Hard Rock Cafe. What a waste of a plane ticket.
 
Side rant: I remember my friends came to visit me in Germany. We traveled everywhere in Berlin and Amsterdam. I asked them where they wanted to eat in Amsterdam. Out of all the choices of new culture, they wanted to eat at Hard Rock Cafe. What a waste of a plane ticket.

Chuckle.

Friend of mine from home had a long-term consulting gig in Paris, around six months worth. He ate every meal (save one, IIRC) at either Hard Rock, McDonalds or TGI Fridays.

In Paris.

Fo' real.

:rofl:
 
Beth, I've been looking at your incredible travel blogs. Very informative! Beautiful photos! You could write travel books! :yes:

Thank you Diana!

Seriously, I can give you a lot of tips on things to do and see in that neck of the woods. I've been to Normandy four times (incl the 55th, 60th, and 65th anniversary of D-Day). You could easily spend your entire week between Paris and Normandy, and include part of Brittany for a day or two as well. They are all close geographically. April is likely to be rainy though. Late May and June have been beautiful, when I've gone, although that was possibly partially luck.

You can't go wrong if you keep the geography to a tight circle, and especially around there...
 
Chuckle.

Friend of mine from home had a long-term consulting gig in Paris, around six months worth. He ate every meal (save one, IIRC) at either Hard Rock, McDonalds or TGI Fridays.

In Paris.

Fo' real.

:rofl:
That is so sad. However in the early days of travel to the People's Paradise of China a meal at the Hard Rock dubbed the US Embassy by us biz travelers was a delight!

I also remember after spending a couple of weeks in the hinterland outside of Beijing running across a McDonald's and enjoying one of the best meals I ever had. After 9 days of meals served on pressed out Al trays with a scoop of rice and mystery stir fry it was awesome and free. Worth every penny too.

But Paris....that is food nirvana!!!
 
I wholeheartedly agree. Switzerland is a beautiful country which is very under appreciated. It's a bit pricey, but there's a lot of culture in Switzerland. Their money also has a very soft feel.

Likewise. I spent a fair amount of time in Geneva, Montreux, as well as Zurich. Each is different, but nice in it's own way. Interlaken is also worth the stop.

From Montreux, it's worth the ride up Rochers de Naye - perhaps you can catch some hang gliding from the mountain while there. It is possible to walk down the mountain, but is the better part of a day.
Side rant: I remember my friends came to visit me in Germany. We traveled everywhere in Berlin and Amsterdam. I asked them where they wanted to eat in Amsterdam. Out of all the choices of new culture, they wanted to eat at Hard Rock Cafe. What a waste of a plane ticket.

Chuckle.

Friend of mine from home had a long-term consulting gig in Paris, around six months worth. He ate every meal (save one, IIRC) at either Hard Rock, McDonalds or TGI Fridays.

In Paris.

Fo' real.

:rofl:

Even worse, when I was in San Antonio, a colleague went to London for business and insisted on eating at the Republic of Texas restaurant. Granted, the Brits are not know for their high cuisine, but there are PLENTY of very good or excellent restaurants in London.... starting with Indian food, and including French and Continental cuisine.
 
That is so sad. However in the early days of travel to the People's Paradise of China a meal at the Hard Rock dubbed the US Embassy by us biz travelers was a delight!

I also remember after spending a couple of weeks in the hinterland outside of Beijing running across a McDonald's and enjoying one of the best meals I ever had. After 9 days of meals served on pressed out Al trays with a scoop of rice and mystery stir fry it was awesome and free. Worth every penny too.

But Paris....that is food nirvana!!!

That's so funny! It sounds like some of the colleagues that I've traveled with in the past. None of them can seem to take the food in China, even now, and I distinctly remember almost missing a connecting flight home because one of them booked it across the terminal to grab a Big Mac.

It's never bothered me, though. I'm not crazy about the chicken feet or pig intestines, but most of the other stuff I can take without a problem. I'd say the difference in hygiene bothers me more than the actual food.
 
That's so funny! It sounds like some of the colleagues that I've traveled with in the past. None of them can seem to take the food in China, even now, and I distinctly remember almost missing a connecting flight home because one of them booked it across the terminal to grab a Big Mac.

It's never bothered me, though. I'm not crazy about the chicken feet or pig intestines, but most of the other stuff I can take without a problem. I'd say the difference in hygiene bothers me more than the actual food.
The chicken feet at least had a sort of BBq sauce on them. It was just the blandness and the lack of properly butchered meat. Bones in all kinds of weird places and too much bok choy. Up in the north I did enjoy the dumplings!!! Those were always good. And yes, hygiene was always a problem. Not near as bad as Indonesia but still something to watch out for. Nowadays China, at least the cities, is not anywhere near as wild as it used to be. Good restaurants with properly prepared foods. There is even a decent German restaurant in Beijing.
 
But Paris....that is food nirvana!!!

Agreed that excellent food is to be had in Paris.. But, if you really need those pancakes, eggs and bacon, there is an alternative:

http://www.breakfast-in-america.com/main/

Pretty popular, usually a line, but the menu is in English, the wait staff speak American and the food is very good at a decent price!

Gary
 
The chicken feet at least had a sort of BBq sauce on them. It was just the blandness and the lack of properly butchered meat. Bones in all kinds of weird places and too much bok choy. Up in the north I did enjoy the dumplings!!! Those were always good. And yes, hygiene was always a problem. Not near as bad as Indonesia but still something to watch out for. Nowadays China, at least the cities, is not anywhere near as wild as it used to be. Good restaurants with properly prepared foods. There is even a decent German restaurant in Beijing.

Oooh dumplings are awesome in China! I wish I could make them home, but I have no idea how they do that.

I was just in Shanghai again in December, client wanted to go somewhere older and more traditional for hotpot. I found something that hinted to the existence of flies, and THAT ruined my appetite rather quickly. :rolleyes2:
 
Tom finally agreed to travel to Europe with me. This will be the first time for both of us. We mainly want to see Paris, rural France, Venice, Tuscany, vineyards, and a castle or two. We're rural folks, so we would like to see rural areas, either by car or train. We're not into museums, at all. We will have about a week and hope to go this coming April.

So many questions, so many resources, but you folks have a lot of first-hand experience, so I'm hoping you can give us some suggestions. I know that Google is my friend, but I trust you folks more. :yes:

Is it practical/more expensive to fly into one city, like Paris, and then depart for home out of another, like Rome?

Is there a way to use the iPhone and iPad with AT&T so that it isn't very expensive? I haven't talked with AT&T yet, but I thought you might have some suggestions about that. Is WiFi available in many places in Europe?

What about the weather in France/Italy in April?

Thanks in advance for your suggestions. :)

Nice timing, I'll be in Paris the end of March through the first week of April. Going to steal a lot of content from this thread!

EDIT: Has anyone used the Skype Phone iPhone app in Europe? I've used it in the bahamas and loved it. Our flat has wi-fi so I'm thinking I can just connect through that and use Skype minutes instead of cell time. Thoughts?
 
Side rant: I remember my friends came to visit me in Germany. We traveled everywhere in Berlin and Amsterdam. I asked them where they wanted to eat in Amsterdam. Out of all the choices of new culture, they wanted to eat at Hard Rock Cafe. What a waste of a plane ticket.

Been a a few around the world. Haven't made it to the one in Amsterdam yet, though.

Chuckle.

Friend of mine from home had a long-term consulting gig in Paris, around six months worth. He ate every meal (save one, IIRC) at either Hard Rock, McDonalds or TGI Fridays.

In Paris.

Fo' real.

:rofl:

Hey, the HRC in Paris isn't bad. But every meal in one of those three? What was he thinking?

Thank you Diana!

Seriously, I can give you a lot of tips on things to do and see in that neck of the woods. I've been to Normandy four times (incl the 55th, 60th, and 65th anniversary of D-Day). You could easily spend your entire week between Paris and Normandy, and include part of Brittany for a day or two as well. They are all close geographically. April is likely to be rainy though. Late May and June have been beautiful, when I've gone, although that was possibly partially luck.

You can't go wrong if you keep the geography to a tight circle, and especially around there...

True that. And a week wouldn't be enough.

Likewise. I spent a fair amount of time in Geneva, Montreux, as well as Zurich. Each is different, but nice in it's own way. Interlaken is also worth the stop.

Interlaken is just a place to change trains and head up to Lauterbrunnen. Now there's some pretty country.
 
Agreed that excellent food is to be had in Paris.. But, if you really need those pancakes, eggs and bacon, there is an alternative:

http://www.breakfast-in-america.com/main/

Pretty popular, usually a line, but the menu is in English, the wait staff speak American and the food is very good at a decent price!

Gary

HA, crazy, I love the BIA. Three trips there in November.

They have to be the ONLY place in Paris where you can get free refills on your coffee.
 
.

Another question...is one airline any better than another as far as leg room is concerned?

;)


I will NEVER.FLY.ALITALIA.AGAIN. Ymmv

There's a website for seat selection that has airlines, by aircraft, down to the seat level. For a tall guy like me it is an invaluable resource. Seatguru.com

Did I mention that I will NEVER.FLY.ALITALIA.AGAIN?

France and Italy are my favorites.

Random thoughts:
Don't drive into Florence. Invariably you'll get a parking ticket 3 months after coming home.

In Italy Petrol=gasoline, while Gasolio=diesel. It should be hard to mix up but lots of Americans still do....and stall in the middle of nowhere.

In Florence climb the tower, even though it's dirty and hot and tight. In Paris climb Sacre Couer and stay there till dusk and the city lights come up

Paris catacombs. Go.

Whoever said Driving in Paris was easy is braver than me. Italy was a breeze to drive. You'll brush up on your manual transmission skills in Tuscany.

I downloaded a GPS map for all of Italy to my iPhone.All data was cached so no data connection was required. It was about $15 to buy but was invaluable to get around the whole country.

If you have time, don't skip murano and Burano, ESP if you are a photo hound.
 
Our kids and grandkids spent two months in Spain and Italy in 2011 during a home-school/travel year and used it a lot although I don't know about the cost.

Nice timing, I'll be in Paris the end of March through the first week of April. Going to steal a lot of content from this thread!

EDIT: Has anyone used the Skype Phone iPhone app in Europe? I've used it in the bahamas and loved it. Our flat has wi-fi so I'm thinking I can just connect through that and use Skype minutes instead of cell time. Thoughts?
 
Nice timing, I'll be in Paris the end of March through the first week of April. Going to steal a lot of content from this thread!

EDIT: Has anyone used the Skype Phone iPhone app in Europe? I've used it in the bahamas and loved it. Our flat has wi-fi so I'm thinking I can just connect through that and use Skype minutes instead of cell time. Thoughts?

I've used the app on Android. Works fine on wifi. I also use Ooma app on Android with great success in Paris, Germany, Spain, and Japan - works fine on wifi. Too expensive to use on 3G.
 
In Paris RENT an apartment and shop locally. You can stay a week and eat breakfast in an apartment for half the price of a hotel. Get a carnet of Metro tickets and use them. Get a museum pass at a Metro station or tourist office and walk past the lines at museums and get waved in a special entrance. Walk, eat a neighborhood bistros. Picnic on the Seine. LEARN A FEW FRENCH PHRASES. Have a ball.
 
In Paris RENT an apartment and shop locally. You can stay a week and eat breakfast in an apartment for half the price of a hotel. Get a carnet of Metro tickets and use them. Get a museum pass at a Metro station or tourist office and walk past the lines at museums and get waved in a special entrance. Walk, eat a neighborhood bistros. Picnic on the Seine. LEARN A FEW FRENCH PHRASES. Have a ball.

Or just get a transit pass when you arrive. Buy from RER station at CDG.

Be very careful riding the RER in from the airport and watch for pickpockets and thiefs.
 
Put a credit card in one shoe and some cash in the other and leave everything else in the safe. You're gonna get hit in Rome, probably strong-armed if you feel them in your pockets.

Or just get a transit pass when you arrive. Buy from RER station at CDG.

Be very careful riding the RER in from the airport and watch for pickpockets and thiefs.
 
OH. Diana, and Tom. You have GOT to do Italy tour of Cathedrals. San Simeon, St. Sabastian, San Giovanni, St. Peter's. No I'm not catholic. The Cathedral of Milan. All were built.....by hand. Amazing. The Franciscans were sparse. The Dominicans live in luxury.....

The Uffizi in Florence.
The Pitti palace.
Palazza Vecchio
Michelangelo's David
The michelango "Wives of Guilano d'Medici" sculpture-

Yeah, you have to see the Forums and Pantheon, the Trevi fountain, the Spanish Steps, Hadrian's circus, and all that. The Isle of Capri and the Ducal Palace in Venice....

I wouldn't bother with Napoli. The mobs of kids will strip you bare. Unchanged since 1974.

It's time. It's NOW.
 
Last edited:
And,of course, you want to do ALL of these things in your one week.....:yikes:
 
In Geneva now, headed down to Chamonix this morning. I didn't do a phone plan. Wifi works great for me Skype can be free if calling another Skye user.

Hey Wayne and Spike, I'll mark a tree for y'all at the top of Mt Blanc!

Best,

Dave
 
Sounds great, Dave, as long as you don't do it with a prop.

In Geneva now, headed down to Chamonix this morning. I didn't do a phone plan. Wifi works great for me Skype can be free if calling another Skye user.

Hey Wayne and Spike, I'll mark a tree for y'all at the top of Mt Blanc!

Best,

Dave
 
I wouldn't bother with Napoli. The mobs of kids will strip you bare. Unchanged since 1974.

Unchanged since 1946, according to my dad's letter home at the time: "Naples is a hole. Full of pickpockets and petty thieves...."

Pompeii is worth the trip, though, as is that Amalfi coast. Capri is enjoyable.



Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 2
 
Call your credit card companies and find out what they charge for foreign transaction fees. This is an add-on to each and every purchase, and the dollar amounts can be significant. It might pay to get a card without a foreign transaction fee - they are out there. The big companies all have them, but some of the smaller ones do not. It's worth a few phone calls....

-Skip
 
OH. Diana, and Tom. You have GOT to do Italy tour of Cathedrals. San Simeon, St. Sabastian, San Giovanni, St. Peter's. No I'm not catholic. The Cathedral of Milan. All were built.....by hand. Amazing. The Franciscans were sparse. The Dominicans live in luxury.....

The Uffizi in Florence.
The Pitti palace.
Palazza Vecchio
Michelangelo's David
The michelango "Wives of Guilano d'Medici" sculpture-

Yeah, you have to see the Forums and Pantheon, the Trevi fountain, the Spanish Steps, Hadrian's circus, and all that. The Isle of Capri and the Ducal Palace in Venice....

I wouldn't bother with Napoli. The mobs of kids will strip you bare. Unchanged since 1974.

It's time. It's NOW.

The music is good in Napoli, though. And the food, too. But yeah, the roving bands of miscreants are problematic.

Avoid Palermo at all costs. The biggest growth industry in Palermo is casket making. In fact, avoid Sicily in general.

And don't ask anyone if they speak English. Especially waiters. It annoys them, and you never want to annoy someone who's handling your food. Very bad idea. Very bad.

Instead, muddle your way through the menu as best you can, and try to order in Italian. When the waiter realizes you just ordered rancid road kill smothered with dishwater, he'll talk to you in English. They all speak English. They just like you to make the effort to speak in Italian. It's a sign of respect.

As for France, I can't help you there.

-Rich
 
Call your credit card companies and find out what they charge for foreign transaction fees. This is an add-on to each and every purchase, and the dollar amounts can be significant. It might pay to get a card without a foreign transaction fee - they are out there. The big companies all have them, but some of the smaller ones do not. It's worth a few phone calls....

-Skip

Even worse, and harder to avoid, is a "scam" called dynamic currency conversion (DCC) where your purchase will show and process as dollars (they key off of the location of the card issuer) - the conversion will take place by a middleman who adds another 2-4 percent to the conversion fee, and you may get hit with your card's foreign transaction fee. This makes for a very expensive transaction. It is hard to tell in advance that you'll get charged, the merchant usually gets a cut so they don't like to turn it off (they can, but most either won't or don't know how), and your card issuer can't help as the sales slip often contains a statement to to the effect that "the undersigned agreed to be billed in dollars", even if you had no alternative.

AmEx processes in a way that avoids this racket so I usually use AmEx in Europe. Cash is also good, and I have not yet run across ATMs that engage in the racket.

I've been burned twice - once by a Marriott in Milan where I used a Marriott co-branded Visa card (additional cost about $20) and the front desk insisted that the charge would be in Euros despite what the bill said, and a second time at a merchant that only accepted Visa (additional cost less than $1) and didn't know how to reset the machine to process only in Euro.

One other note: US Starbucks cards are not usable overseas.
 
I second the "don't fly Alitalia" comment above. Rode them in 2009 and NEVER AGAIN. Tight on checked bags and can be on carry-ons. Not again.

Too much to do in one week. You'll really have to concentrate on a single area. Have fun!
 
I second the "don't fly Alitalia" comment above. Rode them in 2009 and NEVER AGAIN. Tight on checked bags and can be on carry-ons. Not again.

Too much to do in one week. You'll really have to concentrate on a single area. Have fun!

I flown them a couple fo times. Most of them were Nice to Milan flights, but once Milan to Chicago. The FAs were about to strike and were rather unhappy to be working. So they set up the galley as a buffet and announced to the passenger to just come in whenever they needed something and take it. Best service I ever had and this was coach!!
 
OH. Diana, and Tom. You have GOT to do Italy tour of Cathedrals. San Simeon, St. Sabastian, San Giovanni, St. Peter's. No I'm not catholic. The Cathedral of Milan. All were built.....by hand. Amazing. The Franciscans were sparse. The Dominicans live in luxury.....

The Uffizi in Florence.
The Pitti palace.
Palazza Vecchio
Michelangelo's David
The michelango "Wives of Guilano d'Medici" sculpture-

Yeah, you have to see the Forums and Pantheon, the Trevi fountain, the Spanish Steps, Hadrian's circus, and all that. The Isle of Capri and the Ducal Palace in Venice....

I wouldn't bother with Napoli. The mobs of kids will strip you bare. Unchanged since 1974.

It's time. It's NOW.

Bruce, you are so right...now is the time to do this. :yes:

And,of course, you want to do ALL of these things in your one week.....:yikes:

Well, we have decided to spend more than one week. :D Might go with another couple, or least meet up with them part of the time. Sometime in May is looking more likely now. I would prefer not to be gone from the farm for long in Tornado Month, and when we have so much mowing to do. I wish we could find someone to come live at the farm and take care of everything (including our kitties) while we are gone.

Thanks again, everyone, for your invaluable input. :yes: We may do the tour thing to make things easier for us since we are so clueless.
 
Back
Top