Suggest "Light Sport Aircraft and Sport Pilot" new topic/category

Paul Hamilton CFI

Paul Hamilton CFI

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Paul Hamilton CFI
Please understand I am trying to make a constructive suggestion so please consider this. I feel it would make a significant improvement to this forum.

I see you have "Home Builders and Sport Pilot". These are unrelated. Most Sport Pilots are not home builders and most home builders are not Sport Pilots. These two unrelated subjects should be separated.

If you modified your current topic to "Home Builders and Experimental" this would make more sense since they are directly related. Most of the current posts would fit into this nicely

Add a new topic "Light Sport Aircraft and Sport Pilot", this would open up a whole new perspective and focus on the new (sort of new) FAA rules. Two separate things "LSA Aircraft and Sport Pilot rating. Both of these separate rules came out in 2004 and are still not understood.

My flight school that specializes in LSA is getting many Private, Commercial and ATP now interested in LSA as a great alternative to fun and economical flying and I feel this would be very helpful to this forum.

Will actively contribute my vast Light Sport Aircraft (LSA) and sport pilot knowledge see http://sportaviationcenter.com/ for my background. My first post would be "What is Light Sport Aircraft" and the second post would be "What is Sport Pilot" and third post would be "How to avoid the FAA medical and Transition to LSA". I am an expert in these subjects.

Sincerely hopeful,
Paul Hamilton
 
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I see your point about focusing the "Home Builders" forum on the aspects of building and experimentals (be it LSA or not). But I'm not sure that "Sport Pilot" on its own has enough unique content for its own subforum. Yes, the regulations can be a little confusing, but questions about regulations of all sorts get asked (and get answered -- usually) in places like Flight Following or Medical Topics*. Once the wheels leave the ground, I can't think of anything uniquely LSA-y or Sport Pilot-y that wouldn't be just as relevant to other pilots (like how to nail the flare, or which RV is the best for the mission, etc. etc.). Unlike, say, helicopters or gliders, which one might argue have their own unique conversations, but don't have their own forum either.

* When there is a particular question that gets asked over and over, the better solution is to create a "sticky" for a particularly good thread which answers those questions, rather than a whole new forum.

(not speaking for the MC, just my initial thoughts)
 
I think it's a great idea.

While there is overlap (like everything on the board), i think these are reasonably enough focused to be subgroups.
 
Yes the aircraft (LSA metal object) and the pilot certificate (sport pilot human) could be considered separate items since they are totally separate laws but they are somewhat related so in such a group as this best to group them.

I keep telling people there is no such thing as a “light pilot” except someone who weighs under the standard 170 faa standard.

Seeing home builders and sport pilots grouped together with little or no commonality and no Light Sport Aircraft which is a new standard increasingly being used by all pilots from sport to ATP was my trigger for this suggestion.

Any way I would rethink grouping home builders and sport pilots together. Makes no sense.
 
Paul Hamilton CFI said:
Two separate things "LSA Aircraft and Sport Pilot rating. Both of these separate rules came out in 2004 and are still not understood.
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jbarrass said:
This is a significant point that many don't grasp.
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And if you really want to twist it up a little, throw in "Non-Sport Pilots (PP/CP/ATP)" flying with Sport Pilot privileges and no medical"...
 
Well, there's already a separate forum for Sport Pilots and LSAs:

Is there really content and discussion that isn't covered adequately there? Is there really a need for both?
 
Paul Hamilton CFI said:
Seeing home builders and sport pilots grouped together with little or no commonality and no Light Sport Aircraft which is a new standard increasingly being used by all pilots from sport to ATP was my trigger for this suggestion.
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There's a lot of commonality... most homebuilders and most sport pilots fly primarily for fun. They have a lot more in common with each other than, say, a homebuilder or sport pilot has with a Bonanza or CIrrus driver.
 
Daleandee said:
I did try your link above and got a "forbidden" message. But Google got me there with this: http://sportaviationcenter.com/
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You're welcome on the link catch!

I'm one of those that people get confused about as I have a Light Sport Certificate and I fly a light sport compliant experimental aircraft that I built and have the Repairman Experimental Aircraft certificate for. But I also have a Repairman Light Sport Aircraft certificate for any ELSA that I own.

It can get confusing to those that don't understand it ... especially when we get into the weeds with the old 2 place ultralights that were allowed to be converted to ELSA for a short period of time verses an ELSA that was built from a SLSA ... :eek:
 
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Half Fast said:
Well, there's already a separate forum for Sport Pilots and LSAs:

Is there really content and discussion that isn't covered adequately there? Is there really a need for both?
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There is not much activity at sport pilot talk. Light Sport Aircraft is the hot topic for this forum. Sport Pilot added would simply help/clean up/clarify the home built topic.
 
Paul Hamilton CFI said:
Yes the aircraft (LSA metal object) and the pilot certificate (sport pilot human) could be considered separate items since they are totally separate laws but they are somewhat related so in such a group as this best to group them.

I keep telling people there is no such thing as a “light pilot” except someone who weighs under the standard 170 faa standard.

Seeing home builders and sport pilots grouped together with little or no commonality and no Light Sport Aircraft which is a new standard increasingly being used by all pilots from sport to ATP was my trigger for this suggestion.

Any way I would rethink grouping home builders and sport pilots together. Makes no sense.
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Perhaps the home builders and sport pilots grouping stems from an alternate definition of 'sport pilot' vs the FAA's sport pilot certificate?

My EAA magazine that I get in the mail every month is titled 'Sport Aviation' and it isn't primarily targeted to LSA or Sport Pilot Certificate holders.

But I do see your point and I think it makes sense as a sub-forum. Although, I never browse by forum when I read POA, I just look at all the recent posts from every category.
 
POA can tweak the forum heading, but the personality and charm of POA is that it is a light-hearted, casual site where thread drift and off-hand comments are part of the landscape. It's a great place for pilots to ask about a Comanche 250 and end up chatting about motorcycles or pickup trucks.
Type forums in my experience are the places to go to for serious, on-topic discussions of questions about a given type of aircraft or about Sport Pilot rules. I can't imagine going to POA for an answer on a Van's RV ELSA instead of going either to Vans or to the VAF forum. If I have a question on my Pipistrel E-LSA glider I go to the manufacturer or the Pipistrel forum.
Sport pilot questions can be covered under the current POA forum structure, although they are not so hard that a look in the FARs shouldn't handle most of them. CFIs should know.
My bottom line is that it doesn't matter to me as I'll likely not use it or contribute to it anyway, but if someone has a personal objective to reshape POA to suit their preferences more power to them.
 
THE hot topic for this forum? Hahahahahahahahaha.

A subforum for pilot-lite could be appropriate, but don't kid yourself that it's the hot topic.
 
Paul Hamilton CFI said:
There is not much activity at sport pilot talk. Light Sport Aircraft is the hot topic for this forum. Sport Pilot added would simply help/clean up/clarify the home built topic.
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There are several others, myself included who have taught sport pilots and can help answer light sport stuff here, but honestly it doesn't come up that super often. I'm not opposed to the idea, myself, but the interest isn't super high.
 
I stand humbly corrected, how about a warm topic :) of interest to pilots.
My retired ATP friend told me when he was thinking about what to do next in aviation and concerned about medicals: "everyone is one medical away from being a sport pilot and flying a LSA".
So LSA awareness is good.
 
Paul Hamilton CFI said:
"everyone is one medical away from being a sport pilot and flying a LSA".
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True in spirit, but less so in application, since if you lose the medical you can't fly Sport Pilot. If you suspect you won't pass your next medical, Basic Med might be the better option. If you don't think you can even pass Basic Med, then SP would be the remaining way into the air, but if you can't find some doctor somewhere who's willing to sign the Basic Med form maybe you're better off on the ground anyway.
 
Half Fast said:
True in spirit, but less so in application, since if you lose the medical you can't fly Sport Pilot. If you suspect you won't pass your next medical, Basic Med might be the better option. If you don't think you can even pass Basic Med, then SP would be the remaining way into the air, but if you can't find some doctor somewhere who's willing to sign the Basic Med form maybe you're better off on the ground anyway.
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My advice has always been, if you are not 100.0% certain (with validation) your medical application will be successful, then don't apply. I've seen guys get denied for stuff that would not be a barrier to SP or even BasicMed, but now they've been denied, so they're screwed either permanently or until they spend a few grand to get an SI issued. If I had re-applied after my MI without consulting Dr. Chien first, I'd have been screwed permanently. SI after a heart attack is no big deal, right? Well... maybe. maybe not. The devil is in the details, or in my case a couple percent of an estimated number.

I've heard that last part so many times. Sometimes, yes. Sometimes, no. I know in my particular case, I have one condition that would prevent me from getting an SI, so BasicMed is not an option. My GP and my cardiologist both agree that between my meds and management, the risk is minimal and they have no issue with me flying. Put another way, when I did have a third class medical certificate, I was apparently not fit to fly -- since I had a heart attack in the airport parking lot, going to check out the club plane for night TO/landing currency. If it hadn't happened when it did, there could have been one really challenging landing.

I'm in much better health now than I was then, and I'm getting very thorough monitoring and checkups as often as needed. So the old "people who can't pass a medical shouldn't fly at all" thing really doesn't hold much water with me. If I have another MI in flight and end up in a flaming ball of crumpled aluminum, I will accept your "I-told-you-so". :)
 
DaleB said:
My advice has always been, if you are not 100.0% certain (with validation) your medical application will be successful, then don't apply. I've seen guys get denied for stuff that would not be a barrier to SP or even BasicMed, but now they've been denied, so they're screwed either permanently or until they spend a few grand to get an SI issued. If I had re-applied after my MI without consulting Dr. Chien first, I'd have been screwed permanently. SI after a heart attack is no big deal, right? Well... maybe. maybe not. The devil is in the details, or in my case a couple percent of an estimated number.

I've heard that last part so many times. Sometimes, yes. Sometimes, no. I know in my particular case, I have one condition that would prevent me from getting an SI, so BasicMed is not an option. My GP and my cardiologist both agree that between my meds and management, the risk is minimal and they have no issue with me flying. Put another way, when I did have a third class medical certificate, I was apparently not fit to fly -- since I had a heart attack in the airport parking lot, going to check out the club plane for night TO/landing currency. If it hadn't happened when it did, there could have been one really challenging landing.

I'm in much better health now than I was then, and I'm getting very thorough monitoring and checkups as often as needed. So the old "people who can't pass a medical shouldn't fly at all" thing really doesn't hold much water with me. If I have another MI in flight and end up in a flaming ball of crumpled aluminum, I will accept your "I-told-you-so". :)
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Completely understand.

I did Sport first and flew for a while. Then Bruce helped me get a 3rd class (nothing major, but a variety of conditions including an autoimmune disease that required an SI) and I immediately went to Basic. And it will be Basic from now on.

When did you last have a valid medical? Are you eligible for Basic?
 
I think it’s a good idea.

That said, the way I browse the forum is exclusively via “Recent Posts”, so the actual sub-forum a post is in is pretty much irrelevant. The only time it matters at all is when I’m starting a new thread and have to decide which sub-forum to post it to.

But others browse differently, and for them a new sub-forum for Light Sport/Sport Pilot could be valuable.
 
Half Fast said:
Completely understand.

I did Sport first and flew for a while. Then Bruce helped me get a 3rd class (nothing major, but a variety of conditions including an autoimmune disease that required an SI) and I immediately went to Basic. And it will be Basic from now on.

When did you last have a valid medical? Are you eligible for Basic?
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Nope. Since I have had an MI, I would have to get an SI regardless of expiration of my medical... and the chance of me getting an SI is maybe 5-10%, meaning there's a 90-95% chance of a denial. And no way to stop that (slow) train once you've applied, it's all or nothing. So I can fly until I die of old age if I don't even apply for one, but if I do apply then I probably won't ever be allowed to fly again. Not that that's a screwed up situation at all...
 
DaleB said:
Nope. Since I have had an MI, I would have to get an SI regardless of expiration of my medical... and the chance of me getting an SI is maybe 5-10%, meaning there's a 90-95% chance of a denial. And no way to stop that (slow) train once you've applied, it's all or nothing. So I can fly until I die of old age if I don't even apply for one, but if I do apply then I probably won't ever be allowed to fly again. Not that that's a screwed up situation at all...
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. Lucky you found out before you took the medical. A get people advised all the time they need a medical to fly with no alternatives. They essentially loose their ability to fly even as a sport pilot. Heartbreaking.
 
FastEddieB said:
I think it’s a good idea.

That said, the way I browse the forum is exclusively via “Recent Posts”, so the actual sub-forum a post is in is pretty much irrelevant. The only time it matters at all is when I’m starting a new thread and have to decide which sub-forum to post it to.

But others browse differently, and for them a new sub-forum for Light Sport/Sport Pilot could be valuable.
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. Yes I typically drowse by topic so I am not overloaded but to each their own. Sub forum topics allow people to target areas of interest.
 
The big question is what will the industry look like when the new Light-Sport Aircraft rules are released in 2023. Probably the 172’s and many smaller Pipers will be included as LSA. Sport Pilots will be able to jump right into bigger airplanes and basic med will be needed by less. Interesting times ahead.
 
Paul Hamilton CFI said:
Probably the 172’s and many smaller Pipers will be included as LSA. Sport Pilots will be able to jump right into bigger airplanes and basic med will be needed by less.
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Color me skeptical. Very, very skeptical.
 
DaleB said:
Color me skeptical. Very, very skeptical.
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Roger that. BUT it is a requirement and the deadline is 2023. We will look back to this post and I/we/them Hero or a Zero we shall see. They have all the public comment and it is in he inner FAA private magic room now to be sprung on us.....
 
Personally, I like the idea of a "Light Sport Aircraft and Sport Pilot" sub-forum separated from "Homebuilders and Sport Pilots."

"Homebuilders and Experimental Aircraft" could replace the current "Homebuilders and Sport Pilots." Just my $.02.
 
Stan Cooper said:
Personally, I like the idea of a "Light Sport Aircraft and Sport Pilot" sub-forum separated from "Homebuilders and Sport Pilots."

"Homebuilders and Experimental Aircraft" could replace the current "Homebuilders and Sport Pilots." Just my $.02.
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I AGREE. I own an LSA but, in my case I've been flying for 35 years
 
DaleB said:
Color me skeptical. Very, very skeptical.
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Whatever logic was behind Light Sport aircraft should apply to the 150-152 but not the 172 or else they better be ready to accept all 4 seat aircraft with up to a 160 HP engine
 
New user/longtime lurker here -- let me just add my voice to the something-less-than-a-din clamoring for an LSA/sport pilot section separate from home builders. (Nothing against the latter, but I would never trust my own mechanical aptitude to build something I'd be brave enough to fly in.)

In my case, I'm a very rusty private pilot (earned in 1979), who has only recently tried to get back in the air, and Sport is the only way I'm likely to get there. I slept through the creation of Basic Med, so missed that window, and have a few medical issues that I suspect would make a 3rd class medical somewhat iffy. I started Sport training in 2019, but only got in a few lessons before life, followed by the pandemic, got in the way. Now recovering from cataract surgery and itching to start up again, I spend way too much time on flying-related web sites, including POA and Sport Pilot Talk, among others. I really enjoy this forum, even though much of the discussion goes over my head.

Anyway, to echo some of the comments above, I think there is a lot of misunderstanding within the aviation community regarding LSAs and sport pilots, and definitely some feeling in the Sport community that they are looked down on by some who consider them less than "real" pilots. Admittedly, Sport remains a small part of the community, though with the potential to grow depending on what (if anything) the FAA changes in 2023. But POA could make itself a more welcoming home for sport pilots and LSA owners by making this small change, and who knows, maybe more would come around and participate.
 
New member and 1st post - I'd like to re-open this thread and chime in to say that it would be great to have a "Sport Pilot and Light Sport Aircraft" topic, category, or forum here. LSA are a distinctly different beast than home built, and I'd guess that even if the FAA doesn't issue a NPRM and follow through on receiving comments etc, LSA and SPL will probably continue to grow as more PPLs, CPLs, and ATPs age into medical issues that force them into SPLs and LSA. And as recent generations of really nice LSA (have you looked at Tecnam's P2008 and Astore?) get more attention, growth seems inevitable.

Not to even mention that the fact that part of the reason for the FAA establishing the SPL/LSA rules in the first place was to give GA a shot in the arm to keep it from aging into oblivion. I mean, let's face it, GA hasn't done a stellar job of attracting people to get their wings, regardless of whether it's for purely recreational interest or to move on to become commercial and transport pilots. It would seem like the old farts would want to ensure the survival of the public's love of aviation, but seems like the love is being pushed away by certain tribal tendencies.
 
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