Stupid Wx minimum question

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Sam Gordon

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Speaking of the 3/1-152: 3 miles (or 1 depending) visibility, 1000' above, 500' below, 2000' horizontal for clouds.

BUT, I just want to confirm for the 1000' & 500'... that's where the plane is in relation to the clouds? So the plane would need to be 1000' above the clouds or 500' below, correct? Not that clouds would be 1000' above the the plane or 500' below?

I hope the question makes sense.
 
Sam Gordon said:
Speaking of the 3/1-152: 3 miles (or 1 depending) visibility, 1000' above, 500' below, 2000' horizontal for clouds.

BUT, I just want to confirm for the 1000' & 500'... that's where the plane is in relation to the clouds? So the plane would need to be 1000' above the clouds or 500' below, correct? Not that clouds would be 1000' above the the plane or 500' below?

I hope the question makes sense.
Click to expand...
What does the regulation say?

https://www.law.cornell.edu/cfr/text/14/91.155
 
Sam Gordon said:
I just want to confirm for the 1000' & 500'... that's where the plane is in relation to the clouds? So the plane would need to be 1000' above the clouds or 500' below, correct? Not that clouds would be 1000' above the the plane or 500' below?
Click to expand...
Kind of the same thing, isn’t it? :)
 
Sam Gordon said:
Speaking of the 3/1-152: 3 miles (or 1 depending) visibility, 1000' above, 500' below, 2000' horizontal for clouds.

BUT, I just want to confirm for the 1000' & 500'... that's where the plane is in relation to the clouds? So the plane would need to be 1000' above the clouds or 500' below, correct? Not that clouds would be 1000' above the the plane or 500' below?

I hope the question makes sense.
Click to expand...
1000 above means the plane can descend no lower than 1000 foot above the clouds. 500 below means the plane can ascend no higher than 500 feet below the clouds.
 
Sam Gordon said:
Speaking of the 3/1-152: 3 miles (or 1 depending) visibility, 1000' above, 500' below, 2000' horizontal for clouds.

BUT, I just want to confirm for the 1000' & 500'... that's where the plane is in relation to the clouds? So the plane would need to be 1000' above the clouds or 500' below, correct? Not that clouds would be 1000' above the the plane or 500' below?

I hope the question makes sense.
Click to expand...

Yes
 
Lindberg said:
What does the regulation say?

https://www.law.cornell.edu/cfr/text/14/91.155
Click to expand...
I appreciate you pointing me to the regs, I wanted to make sure I was reading them right. The chart says "distance from clouds" and "500 feet below". While I thought that mean the plane would need to be 500 feet below, I could see it being read as "clouds need to be 500 feet below".

RyanB said:
Kind of the same thing, isn’t it? :)
Click to expand...
Not really. 500' <> 1000'. I hope to never get close enough that it makes a difference, but wanted to make sure I understood correctly.

Salty said:
1000 above means the plane can descend no lower than 1000 foot above the clouds. 500 below means the plane can ascend no higher than 500 feet below the clouds.
Click to expand...
TY.
 
Palmpilot said:
Opposite, actually.
Click to expand...
No it’s not. If the plane is 500ft below the clouds, than that’s the same thing as saying the clouds are 500ft above the plane.
 
My comment is the same as Ebenezer Scrooge's. BAH!
B = Below
A = Above
H = Horizontal
Note that the 1st is the lowest (500'). A is double B (1,000'). H is double A (2,000').
Lets not over think this. BAH ! Humbug !
 
dmspilot said:
It's still not what the OP wrote.
Click to expand...
He’s asking if the cloud clearance limits are in relation to the aircraft’s distance from the clouds, or the cloud distance from the aircraft. Despite how the question was worded, the regulation is centered around the aircraft and its position relative to the clouds.

So, the aircraft would need to be -

1,000ft above the clouds
500ft below the clouds
2,000ft laterally from the clouds
 
RyanB said:
He’s asking if the cloud clearance limits are in relation to the aircraft’s distance from the clouds, or the cloud distance from the aircraft. Despite how the question was worded, the regulation is centered around the aircraft and its position relative to the clouds.

So, the aircraft would need to be -

1,000ft above the clouds
500ft below the clouds
2,000ft laterally from the clouds
Click to expand...
The OP wrote "So the plane would need to be 1000' above the clouds or 500' below, correct? Not that clouds would be 1000' above the the plane or 500' below?"

If the clouds are 500 feet below the plane, the plane is not 1000 feet above them, and is therefore in violation.
 
Sam Gordon said:
I appreciate you pointing me to the regs, I wanted to make sure I was reading them right. The chart says "distance from clouds" and "500 feet below". While I thought that mean the plane would need to be 500 feet below, I could see it being read as "clouds need to be 500 feet below".

Not really. 500' <> 1000'. I hope to never get close enough that it makes a difference, but wanted to make sure I understood correctly.


TY.
Click to expand...


The cloud clearances you have correct, not really a big deal as long as you don't get yourself stuck on top, or squeezed into IMC or an obstacle while doing it. 3 miles visibility is not a good thing to play around in while vfr. Less than like 8, I start thinking about IFR, by 3 I've gotten an IFR clearance, 1 mile is actually below my personal minimums for IFR, never mind VFR.
 
Basically all I wanted to confirm is the data point in the chart (500' below for example) is where the airplane needs to be in relation to the clouds. That's what I thought it was saying, but I didn't want to assume.
 
Sam Gordon said:
Basically all I wanted to confirm is the data point in the chart (500' below for example) is where the airplane needs to be in relation to the clouds. That's what I thought it was saying, but I didn't want to assume.
Click to expand...

Yup, you got it correct, always good to check in aviation.
 
Sam Gordon said:
Basically all I wanted to confirm is the data point in the chart (500' below for example) is where the airplane needs to be in relation to the clouds. That's what I thought it was saying, but I didn't want to assume.
Click to expand...

Now ya know. And ya got some grammar lessons to. No charge for the extras.:D
 
would a fancy picture help?

vfr-cloud-clearance.jpg


sorry, nothing fancy about a high wing.
 
RyanB said:
He’s asking if the cloud clearance limits are in relation to the aircraft’s distance from the clouds, or the cloud distance from the aircraft. Despite how the question was worded, the regulation is centered around the aircraft and its position relative to the clouds.

So, the aircraft would need to be -

1,000ft above the clouds
500ft below the clouds
2,000ft laterally from the clouds
Click to expand...

The wording of the question is pretty important. He did not word the same thing two different ways. He worded two completely opposite things different ways.
 
RyanB programs with or instead of and
 
RyanB said:
Why do you think I made that argument?! ;)
Click to expand...
In the following exchange, it looked like you were saying that the statement "the plane would need to be 1000' above the clouds or 500' below" is the same as the statement "clouds would be 1000' above the plane or 500' below."
RyanB said:
Sam Gordon said:
I just want to confirm for the 1000' & 500'... that's where the plane is in relation to the clouds? So the plane would need to be 1000' above the clouds or 500' below, correct? Not that clouds would be 1000' above the the plane or 500' below?
Click to expand...
Kind of the same thing, isn’t it? :)
Click to expand...
 
Bonus - On your checkride, when the DPE asks you how far below that cloud are we.... your answer is always - "More than 500 feet, sir/ma'am!"
 
Sam Gordon said:
Basically all I wanted to confirm is the data point in the chart (500' below for example) is where the airplane needs to be in relation to the clouds. That's what I thought it was saying, but I didn't want to assume.
Click to expand...
When you read the reg, it’s talking about what you need to do with the airplane... “distance from clouds” means your airplane’s distance from the clouds, and your airplane must be at least 500 feet below, 1000 feet above, etc.
 
RyanB said:
Why do you think I made that argument?! ;)
Click to expand...

I call foul. You spent to much time explaining that "...that's where the plane is in relation to the clouds..." was your point to be playing the high/low wing card now:fingerwag:
 
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Deelee said:
Bonus - On your checkride, when the DPE asks you how far below that cloud are we.... your answer is always - "More than 500 feet, sir/ma'am!"
Click to expand...

And, if ATC asks you where the bases of the clouds above you are, the answer is "at least 500 feet above me sir"
 
PaulS said:
And, if ATC asks you where the bases of the clouds above you are, the answer is "at least 500 feet above me sir"
Click to expand...

Unless you're IFR, then you just say when you broke out. :D
 
If you break out under MDA, just say you were flying under JFR and went to secondary minimums.
 
Think of it this way, is the FAA regulating the airplane or the weather? They aren't telling the clouds where they have to be.
 
luvflyin said:
What's JFR?
Click to expand...

Jerry (Wagner) Flight Rules - basically make up your own crap (don't fly approaches as published, make hold turns in the wrong direction, et al), put it on youtube and declare how awesome you are at ****ting the bed.
 
EdFred said:
Jerry (Wagner) Flight Rules - basically make up your own crap (don't fly approaches as published, make hold turns in the wrong direction, et al), put it on youtube and declare how awesome you are at ****ting the bed.
Click to expand...

Ah.
 
EdFred said:
Jerry (Wagner) Flight Rules - basically make up your own crap (don't fly approaches as published, make hold turns in the wrong direction, et al), put it on youtube and declare how awesome you are at ****ting the bed.
Click to expand...

you forgot "blame everything that goes wrong on ATC, the plane, or anyone else besides himself"
 
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