Student Pilot Struggling

[Adonis]

I had started my training since October and have logged up to 60 hours now and still struggling to land the plane, and I dont feel remotely close to solo-ing. I have made at least 2 good landings on my own but every other one that was made was assisted or I decided go-around, and my instructor says my patternwork is good up until short-final. I'll either round out or flare too early and he'll take controls and finish it as a demo.
We've also tried taking a break from touch-and-go's to practice maneuvers and emergencies and he said I was well off with those, and its just the landings I need to get down, but I've been struggling with them for a while now and I am starting to question if I am still built to be a pilot, and I would like any suggestions I could get

 

[exncsurfer]

Maybe try another instructor, seems like something isn't clicking for you and another instructor could offer a different perspective on the issue

 

[Tantalum]

^was going to be my recommendation as well

It can be discouraging for sure, but don't beat yourself up. Even if you like your current CFI it might be worth flying with someone else to get a different approach. You could also try observing a few landing or going right seat with a pilot friend

From my experience it can be the last 2-5 seconds where people sort of "freeze" up and stop flying the plane, or end up over controlling it

To that point: slow flight practice, or, if tower allows it, a low approach in ground effect can also be a useful technique

Where are you looking? Shift your eyes up the horizon towards the end of the runway, keep flying the plane, gently easing it down

Good luck and don't be discouraged!!

 

[GaryM]

The only suggestion I can make, not knowing anything else about you or your flying, is to go up with another instructor to work on landings. There may not be anything wrong with your current instructor, but perhaps a different set of eyes, and different teaching style, might be just what is needed to get you over the hump. At some point landings just kind of 'click', not in the sense that they go immediately from 'nearly all bad' to 'nearly all great', but rather to 'mostly acceptable', and from there the lifelong process of refinement can really start.

Good luck.

edit: Apparently exncsurfer and Tantalum both type faster than I do.

 

[eman1200]

 

[172andyou]

Maybe try another instructor, seems like something isn't clicking for you and another instructor could offer a different perspective on the issue

And that's not knocking their current CFI. I found it immensely useful to fly with multiple CFIs during my training. They aren't robots and each teaches differently. Maybe another one is exactly what they need to achieve their teachable moment on this subject.

 

[ArrowFlyer86]

Without knowing anything else -- I'm going to hop on the "try a different instructor" bandwagon.

At 60h they should have enough data points from flying with you that they can give pretty pointed feedback on what specifically you're messing up and then drilling on that specific area. If they don't have feedback that's helping, or it's just not connecting with you -- try another CFI who might have a teaching style that is more in sync with yours.

One separate idea: you've been doing 60h over 6-7 months. So about 8-10 hours a month. If at all possible try scheduling like four 2-hour lessons over 4 consecutive days (or as many as you can reasonably afford and fit into your schedule). When I was having trouble that helped me a lot. Not only do you get the muscle memory quicker, but you're also constantly thinking about it.

And FWIW I have a friend who didn't solo until about 40 hours and they went on to be a skilled pilot. They had a similar problem: flare/landing. Even when their instructor insisted they were well equipped to fly solo they didn't have the confidence to do it. One day it just clicked and they've been flying successfully ever since!

 

[Salty]

Kinda sounds like you are giving up when he helps you. Don’t do that. It’s a really bad habit to get into. Before you can solo you need to be going into every landing knowing you have to do it. Might as well start that philosophy now. Let him correct you, verbally and physically, but you have to land the plane. Keep flying even when he’s assisting.

keep in mind I’m not there and have no clue. Just my thoughts based on what you wrote.

 

[Daleandee]

Fly it down the runway and get as close as you can without landing. At some point you won't be scared of the ground anymore ...

 

[PaulS]

Kinda sounds like you are giving up when he helps you. Don’t do that. It’s a really bad habit to get into. Before you can solo you need to be going into every landing knowing you have to do it. Might as well start that philosophy now. Let him correct you, verbally and physically, but you have to land the plane. Keep flying even when he’s assisting.

keep in mind I’m not there and have no clue. Just my thoughts based on what your wrote.

That's actually really good advice, I went through a stage of struggling to land, chair flying an approach over and over again really helped me. The whole enchilada, from base the the beginning of descent to roll out. Hands on the imaginary yoke, moves to flaps, trim, other hand on the throttle. Rudder inputs. Do it all. Then repeat it for a crosswind. Keep doing it every chance you get.

Also, 8 hours a month isn't really enough at this stage. You should be trying to get up at least twice a week. Fly more, if you want it you will get there.

 

[Gilbert Buettner]

I'll either round out or flare too early and he'll take controls and finish it as a demo.

I advise my students to shift their focus to the paint at the far end of the runway when we are on short final. When that paint disappears, level off (the roundout). As the airplane slows down, you will sense it starting to sink, and when that happens, slowly increase the back pressure to hold the nose off the runway (the flare). Try to keep the airplane from landing, and it will land nicely.

 

[Adonis]

From my experience it can be the last 2-5 seconds where people sort of "freeze" up and stop flying the plane, or end up over controlling it
!

This is definitely frequent in my landings and I even have went up to my CFI telling him I notice I clam up right before touchdown and start doing too much!

One separate idea: you've been doing 60h over 6-7 months. So about 8-10 hours a month. If at all possible try scheduling like four 2-hour lessons over 4 consecutive days (or as many as you can reasonably afford and fit into your schedule).!

Also, 8 hours a month isn't really enough at this stage. You should be trying to get up at least twice a week. Fly more, if you want it you will get there.

To explain this, I am usually scheduled 4 days a week, 2 hours per day, but usually what'll happen is either I don't have a plane (due to maintenance or I would be scheduled for a ground) or the weather wouldn't be optimal enough for flying. Also, I had to take off a month because I scheduled myself a bit too late and my school had a difficulty giving me flying time.

Kinda sounds like you are giving up when he helps you. Don’t do that. It’s a really bad habit to get into. Before you can solo you need to be going into every landing knowing you have to do it. Might as well start that philosophy now. Let him correct you, verbally and physically, but you have to land the plane. Keep flying even when he’s assisting.

keep in mind I’m not there and have no clue. Just my thoughts based on what you wrote.

This. I do feel myself losing confidence in myself when it comes down to piloting because I really want to get through this plateau and I don't want to underperform when it's time I solo, but I feel as if I'm dragging my feet and I really appreciate the insight.
Thank all of you guys for your suggestions and I'll continue pushing through!!

 

[TCABM]

I had started my training since October and have logged up to 60 hours…

How frequently are flying? I’d wager you’re not flying frequently enough for the sight picture to sink in.

I’d also wager you are flying too fast on short final.

 

[Salty]

Oh, and if you are going to make a big change to your habits on short final, warn your instructor first so they know to expect it.

 

[Eric Brunelle]

I had that issue - then I went with a different instructor just by chance - my guy had an emergency. The new CFI asked me what I needed to work on, and I told him about my lans. He said, “watch me” - then I got it. Sometimes you need to sit and watch - maybe even sit right seat and watch someone else land. Worked for me.

 

[Adonis]

How frequently are flying? I’d wager you’re not flying frequently enough for the sight picture to sink in.

I’d also wager you are flying too fast on short final.

Usually fly around 2-3 times on a good week, usually 2 due to weather/maintenance.

 

[texasclouds]

You need to try another instructor before throwing in the towel.

 

[dmspilot]

Kinda sounds like you are giving up when he helps you. Don’t do that. It’s a really bad habit to get into. Before you can solo you need to be going into every landing knowing you have to do it. Might as well start that philosophy now. Let him correct you, verbally and physically, but you have to land the plane. Keep flying even when he’s assisting.

keep in mind I’m not there and have no clue. Just my thoughts based on what you wrote.

I got that impression as well. I won't take over the controls unless we're about to crash or I just want to make a point. Whether the student is giving up or the instructor is intervening too early is impossible to determine here.

He said he goes around a lot...seems to fit with the resignation (giving up) hypothesis. It's training. You're allowed to mess up. For now, let the instructor decide if a go-around is appropriate.

I had started my training since October and have logged up to 60 hours now and still struggling to land the plane, and I dont feel remotely close to solo-ing. I have made at least 2 good landings on my own but every other one that was made was assisted or I decided go-around, and my instructor says my patternwork is good up until short-final. I'll either round out or flare too early and he'll take controls and finish it as a demo.

At 22 years old it should not take 60 hours to solo. I would have had you change instructors at the 30 hour mark. While I think there are people who aren't meant to be pilots, that number is relatively small especially in such a young age group.

 

[Albany Tom]

Echo the try another CFI. It's impossible to tell from here, but maybe you just don't have a good rapport with the guy. There are a lot of things we could guess at, but you should be hearing those from the CFI. If you can fly the plane and setup the approach, you should be able to land. If you can't, rather than give up I'd suggest finding someone that can show you how. Doesn't mean they're a bad CFI, just not clicking with you for whatever reason.

 

[Domenick]

There is a lot of good advice here I won't repeat, but ...

First, everyone's experience in training is different and subject to many factors not just you. There is no set number of hours it SHOULD take.

Second, lay off the touch and goes. They have very little utility in real life flying. Tell your CFI you are switching to stop and goes. This will let you concentrate on the landing, NOT on what comes after.

 

[AviAlex]

Fly it down the runway and get as close as you can without landing. At some point you won't be scared of the ground anymore ...

This was the key for me. After 3 or 4 runs keeping the airplane just a few inches off the runway landings clicked.

 

[FastEddieB]

I'll either round out or flare too early and he'll take controls and finish it as a demo.

I find that is often caused by looking in the wrong place. Eyes fixated over the nose, then being essentially blinded as the nose comes up and starts blocking the view.

FAA:

Kershner:

I agree with others that you need another instructor to troubleshoot your issue. Where are you based?

 

[dtuuri]

I had started my training since October and have logged up to 60 hours now and still struggling to land the plane, and I dont feel remotely close to solo-ing. I have made at least 2 good landings on my own but every other one that was made was assisted or I decided go-around, and my instructor says my patternwork is good up until short-final. I'll either round out or flare too early and he'll take controls and finish it as a demo.
We've also tried taking a break from touch-and-go's to practice maneuvers and emergencies and he said I was well off with those, and its just the landings I need to get down, but I've been struggling with them for a while now and I am starting to question if I am still built to be a pilot, and I would like any suggestions I could get

Do you practice with a simulator? If so, quit it or you'll wind up like @Crashnburn. If not, you need a sabbatical. A long one, I'd say.

 

[midlifeflyer]

I advise my students to shift their focus to the paint at the far end of the runway when we are on short final. When that paint disappears, level off (the roundout). As the airplane slows down, you will sense it starting to sink, and when that happens, slowly increase the back pressure to hold the nose off the runway (the flare). Try to keep the airplane from landing, and it will land nicely.

I do something similar but not the far end of the runway. I tell the to look 12 car lengths down the runway. It still keeps them using their peripheral vision to gauge height and lateral position. I found that end of the runway leads to fixation on it instead of using the multiple visual cues that go into a good landing.

 

[murphey]

This was the key for me. After 3 or 4 runs keeping the airplane just a few inches off the runway landings clicked.

Every once on a while, I land on the longer runway (weather or traffic) and practice this….can I make it almost to the end (for the turnoff) without wheels touching. Fun!

 

[Baked Potato]

Every once on a while, I land on the longer runway (weather or traffic) and practice this….can I make it almost to the end (for the turnoff) without wheels touching. Fun!

Then what do you do? Still room to land or do you go around at that point?

 

[murphey]

Then what do you do? Still room to land or do you go around at that point?

Plenty of runway left to land at a slow speed for the turnoff. After all, I’m only a couple feet off the ground.

 

[midlifeflyer]

Then what do you do? Still room to land or do you go around at that point?

Either. Depends on the airplane, the runway, the student, and the instructor.

 

[Gary Ward]

Many of us experience the challenge learning to land including myself.
I feel strongly it is best to fly with different instructors.
I flew with 5 different instructors during my PPL training and learned something from each one.
One guy took me out and showed me how to fly a foot off of the runway, I remember that helped me like said above.
There was period of time that lesson after lesson all we did was fly the pattern and get my landings down so I could solo.
Took me 16 months to get my PPL and about 100 hrs. I was 55 years old and preoccupied with other stuff when I first started.
After a while I remember my instructor saying I had too much money invested to quit. So the last few months I buckled down and did nothing but flight train.
Good luck and don't give up.

 

[midlifeflyer]

I think the recommendation to try a different instructor is a good one. Instructors are human beings. They are not infallible and they pick up on different things. Often the referral is done by the primary instructor sometimes not. Other instructors have asked me to fly with their students to see if I could find the root of a problem and I have done the same.

My liking it is based on my own experience. I had real problems landing as a student pilot (some would say I still do). Basically I could not line up on the runway properly. I went on vacation. When I returned I found that my CFI had a blow-up with management and moved on. I was give a different instructor. "Oh no!," I thought. "Now I'll never solo!" Turns out Kjell was able to see something Jim was not and I soloed on my second lesson with him.

But. I stop at the idea of using multiple instructors for training as a general proposition unless the instructors all coordinate with each other or the flight school has a unform way of teaching things, whether or not included in a flight operations or maneuvers manual. There are just too many technique variations and, as much as one might explain the difference between a requirement and merely technique, it can very easily lead to confusion and lengthen the amount of time it takes unless the "extra" CFI is very conscious of the need to not force a change in a technique that works just because they like one better (The First Commandment of Flight Instructing).

 

[Clip4]

Have you tried turning your head to the left and peeking straight down at the ground about 3 times on final to determine your perception of the height above the ground compared to what you are perceiving looking straight forward?

It is a peek that lasts less than 2 seconds.

 

[Gary Ward]

I didn't mean I flew with random cfi's. In my case since I took so long, over the course of 16 months you will see cfi come and go when they get enough hours, and there is nothing wrong with that. Nature of most flight schools.
I also saw 3 different chief flight instructors come and go during my time there. And you fly with them during stage checks. So more I think about it I flew with 7 different cfi's.

2 different cfii and 2 different schools during my instrument training.

 

[midlifeflyer]

I didn't mean I flew with random cfi's. In my case since I took so long, over the course of 16 months you will see cfi come and go when they get enough hours, and there is nothing wrong with that. Nature of most flight schools.
I also saw 3 different chief flight instructors come and go during my time there. And you fly with them during stage checks. So more I think about it I flew with 7 different cfi's.

2 different cfii and 2 different schools during my instrument training.

I didn't know if you meant that or not, just that other's might get that as the takeaway. And I have heard others recommend it.

And yeah, CFIs moving along is a fact of life.

 

[Adonis]

I got that impression as well. I won't take over the controls unless we're about to crash or I just want to make a point. Whether the student is giving up or the instructor is intervening too early is impossible to determine here.
He said he goes around a lot...seems to fit with the resignation (giving up) hypothesis. It's training. You're allowed to mess up. For now, let the instructor decide if a go-around is appropriate.

Usually going around happens more on my part, my instructor has noticed when I realize the mistakes I'm making (not holding centerline / keeping glide path) I'd subconsciously tell myself "this is going to be a go-around" and feels I prepare myself more for that instead of trying to land

I find that is often caused by looking in the wrong place. Eyes fixated over the nose, then being essentially blinded as the nose comes up and starts blocking the view...
...I agree with others that you need another instructor to troubleshoot your issue. Where are you based?

Based in NY (KFRG) and I have found myself getting better shifting that focus from the numbers to the end of the runway, so that could have been another knack to why

Do you practice with a simulator? If so, quit it or you'll wind up like @Crashnburn. If not, you need a sabbatical. A long one, I'd say.

I try my best not to use up sim time, and my instructor also advises against it for trying to land unless he absolutely thinks it'll be beneficial to what I am trying to learn.

With that being said, I appreciate all the great advice I've gotten from everyone here. I wrote this while being on a small week-break from flying and my landings have been a bit more improved on where my instructor didn't need to assist me through it.
I will still look into an instructor switch because that's where most advice is leading up to, even from other students at the school

 

[write-stuff]

Read this short article. If you fix just one of these problems, I 100% promise that your landings will improve.

Top Five Landing Mistakes - Gold Seal Online Ground School