STRUGGLING

SkyDog58 said:
For all of the downtrodden men on here who can’t find an aviation organization that actually allows men to join, may I suggest:

https://www.ninety-nines.org/friends-of-99s.htm

Or if you don’t want to support women in their aviation endeavors, you could always hope that the QBs ask you to join. You might find that their misogynistic values align with your own.
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You are creating a false equivalency.

I certainly support women in their aviation endeavors, as I believe my daughter-in-law would attest. That doesn’t mean I have to support a group built upon gender discrimination. Two entirely different things.

Misandry is as wrong as misogyny.
 
April Evans said:
Thank you! I will definitely give this a try. I think that I am a slower learner and none of the CFI's are seasoned pilots. I've had 2 and the one i currently fly with has been flying a little under a year. He has a great personality and i think he genuinely tries but he just doesn't have the experience and definitely not any type of organizational skills. My first one definitely did not mesh well with my personality. She had been flying for close to 2 yrs. I think she is a good pilot but not a great instructor. I don't give up easily and don't plan to, but I definitely have doubts from time to time.
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Sad but true of many young time building CFIs. Find a CFI who is teaching because they enjoy it and aren’t looking to just build time.

As to chair flying, it is something that I have never done. I have also not spent much time playing with flight sims. Still, I was able to pass four FAA checkrides. I credit that to finding good professional instructors. They make a huge difference. Good luck.
 
Unfortunately the path to a pilot career most often involves many hours as a CFI. Being a good pilot and being a good instructor are two different things with different skill sets, and not all CFIs have the skills to teach.
 
After reading the entire thread again, I think you need to find another school. No offense, and I certainly do not blame you--80 hours to solo is ridiculous. I went slower than most, and I passed my checkride within 80 hours. You are literally being taken for a ride by the school.

For whatever reason, your current school is not up to the task of teaching. Ground school knowledge and flying skills go hand in hand. There is a generally recognized syllabus for PPL training. It seems the school is ignoring that and simply taking you on joyride after joyride after joyride.

Go elsewhere. Perhaps if you shared your general location some here could point you toward reputable schools/instructors. When you notify your current school that you are leaving them, DO NOT believe anything they tell you. My guess is they will try to blame you.
 
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Domenick said:
After reading the entire thread again, I think you need to find another school. For whatever reason, your current school is not up to the task of teaching. Ground school knowledge and flying skills go hand in hand. There is a generally recognized syllabus for PPL training. It seems the school is ignoring that and simply taking you on joyride after joyride after joyride.

Go elsewhere. Perhaps if you shared your general location some here could point you toward reputable schools/instructors.
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I was thinking of making a similar comment. Sounds as if there might not be much structure to your training. I like the Gleim syllabus myself but King, Sporty's etc all have something that's adequate and they're free for the downloading.

I cringe when I hear stories about CFIs asking students what they want to do today...I hope that's not happening with you. If you don't have a clear idea of what you're working on during the next lesson and how to prepare for it, then your CFI isn't doing you a lot of favors.
 
great point skychaser!
I can definitely parallel that same idea to ground based navigation.... I have found that my internal compass and sense of direction has nearly gone inop since i blindly started following the little screen and robo voice.

back in the days before gps, when I'd move to a new city, I would get a paper map and study...easy for me because I've always enjoyed maps....I would get a rough mental picture of the main roads..then on some weekend day when I had not much to do, I'd just go drive around and explore...basically get lost. Eventually I'd come by one of those main roads and I'd be able to stumble my way home. Then I'd pull out the map and trace where I had gone. It hugely helped calibrate my internal compass....and that greatly helped when I started flying....where I did pretty much just as skychaser described.
 
I agree, Brad. Skychaser has given great advice.
 
The conclusions that some individuals make from a statement about the ninety-nines being a female specific organization are really remarkable. If I acknowledge the fact that they’re an exclusive group of women, I’m automatically labeled a misogynist and unsupportive of women’s aviation endeavors.

Amazing. :rolleyes:
 
I think people who draw those conclusions are just overly sensitive to the fact that a women-only group is exclusive and limited in diversity because those are the same arguments they use when judging men-only groups. Being told they are not following the dogma of inclusivity and diversity is an unpleasent thing to hear and they can't refute those facts without acknowledging their own double standard of allowing some groups to be exclusive and "undiverse" while restricting other groups from exercising the same freedom.
 
Palmpilot said:
Sounds like the ideal woman!
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You'd think. Just because she CAN do those things doesn't mean she WILL do those things. Of course, at near 70, neither of us lift bails anymore. She was also a crackerjack sailor. We cruised the Caribbean for a few years. That's when I really caught on that her farm experience (and growing up with brothers) guided her understanding of mechanics: winches, pulleys, windlass, how scope affects an anchor's holding power, that kind of thing.

She's off her game eyeballing SAE sizes. now that I've got a Rotax with MM bolts. But for road or air trips, she still pulls out charts.
 
RyanB said:
The conclusions that some individuals make from a statement about the ninety-nines being a female specific organization are really remarkable. If I acknowledge the fact that they’re an exclusive group of women, I’m automatically labeled a misogynist and unsupportive of women’s aviation endeavors.

Amazing. :rolleyes:
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folks are just looking to be offended. The real gauge in this argument is who had/has the power to deny women access to the cockpit throughout history, even today.

As the husband of a woman who retired as a Captain from the U.S. Navy and with two daughters who have had to put up with msoginist BS all their lives, particularly in professional fields.

I just came back from a BFR with a woman instructor. There was a real difference on CTAF in how other pilots responded to her calls and questions and mine. We made a kind of cockpit game of it, guessing whose calls would be answered.
 
I like the idea of simplifying the Nav. Regardless of how flat & featureless the area appears, one should be able to carve out noticeable features. That could be a N/S, or E/W freeway, a river, larger lake, whatever. I’d be looking over charts beforehand, create your own ‘groundschool’.

I’ll bet there are educational videos on Utube, free at that.

I’d try a little crutch with whatever onboard Nav us available, a VOR, yes, can’t always count on a GPS. While looking at that chart be mindful of any airspace you can’t stumble into, then how to avoid doing so.

One can have a ‘hump’ to get over, before the bulb burns bright, afterwards it should become no biggie. Besides chart Nav, have a handle on what general compass heading you’d expect for that leg, even +/- a few degrees.

Most of us have had that rough patch a time or more, the proper way to deal with it is to double-down & up the effort. Even to simply look at & study a local sectional chart would have benefits.
 
Another thing to help nav is to work on always identifying cardinal directions. In simple words always be aware of which way is north. By always I mean from the moment of waking until sleeping. Might sound a little silly but it’s intended to make one always think about where they are and where they are going. Knowledge of north will help with the chart work.
 
MIA said:
In simple words always be aware of which way is north. By always I mean from the moment of waking until sleeping. Might sound a little silly but it’s intended to make one always think about where they are and where they are going.
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^^^ This ^^^
Geographic situational awareness (with confidence) will make a huge difference in "knowing" where you are and where you are going.
Chair flying is great, but you have to visualize where you are going, see above.
Find another school, or another instructor. This one has found a money tree and it's time for you to leave. (pun intended)
 
VFR XC pilotage is one of my favorite things. You said where you fly in Ohio doesn’t have a lot of landmarks, but I bet it does. I’m in Kansas.

Pick an airport where you haven’t been, then draw a line on a sectional between your airport and that one. Then figure that whatever is on that chart was considered big enough to be seen. There will be towers, road intersections, railroad tracks, power lines, bridges, all sorts of things. Make sure, though, to pick a landmark with at least 2 distinct features. Don’t just pick a tower, pick a tower that’s “near the bend in the railroad track and where those roads intersect” so you don’t end up spotting the wrong tower.

Do this a couple times, you don’t even need to fly that route, just get more used to the planning process.

The next time you do fly, match what you see on the ground with what you see on the sectional and keep your finger on the chart where you are. Someone mentioned always knowing where north is, that’s really important.

Know your groundspeed and distance between landmarks and you’ll know by your watch when you’ll get there.

Really, though, this is all something your CFI should be spending time with you on the ground.
 
Really, can't we take the 99's comments to another thread and instead help this lady through her situation?
 
Matthew said:
VFR XC pilotage is one of my favorite things. You said where you fly in Ohio doesn’t have a lot of landmarks, but I bet it does. I’m in Kansas.

Pick an airport where you haven’t been, then draw a line on a sectional between your airport and that one. Then figure that whatever is on that chart was considered big enough to be seen. There will be towers, road intersections, railroad tracks, power lines, bridges, all sorts of things. Make sure, though, to pick a landmark with at least 2 distinct features. Don’t just pick a tower, pick a tower that’s “near the bend in the railroad track and where those roads intersect” so you don’t end up spotting the wrong tower.

Do this a couple times, you don’t even need to fly that route, just get more used to the planning process.

The next time you do fly, match what you see on the ground with what you see on the sectional and keep your finger on the chart where you are. Someone mentioned always knowing where north is, that’s really important.

Know your groundspeed and distance between landmarks and you’ll know by your watch when you’ll get there.

Really, though, this is all something your CFI should be spending time with you on the ground.
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Thank you! Will do.
 
You go, April!

Please keep us updated on your progress, and know that you being courageous enough to start this thread will very likely help a lot of other POA members and browsers.
 
somorris said:
You go, April!

Please keep us updated on your progress, and know that you being courageous enough to start this thread will very likely help a lot of other POA members and browsers.
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I will. So glad I got on here. So much good advice. Thank you!
 
You have a lot of total hours and very few xc hours. It’s easy to get overwhelmed when you are outside your own neighborhood. Maybe tell your CFI next time to do your lessons at a different airport or practice area just to see something different. Use that as an opportunity to navigate via pilotage. There’s a saying, “you can have 100 hours of experience, or you can have one hour of experience 100 times”.
 
What is your goal with flying? Are you trying to do it as a living or just for fun? If I were in your situation and I just wanted to learn to fly for fun I would dump the school and start putting some feelers out for an independent CFI who is willing to teach, not just build hours. The fact that your CFI only has 1 year of experience and doesn't insist on some groundschool work before flying is a major red flag. Every time you go up you should know exactly what you are going to be doing and how to go about doing it. The flying part is to build muscle memory and experience. You should not be learning new things while flying, you should be learning them on the ground before you get in the plane. If you provide a list of airports within driving distance of you I bet there will be a few suggestions from others on here for who is a good CFI in the area.
 
My goal is to make a career out of it...maybe charter or even something like a Fed-ex etc.. They basically provide books but don't offer ground school. There is no real clear cut instruction. I flew day one with no ground school/discussion. I was shown how to preflight and use the check list and off we went. I am sometimes told what we are doing the next lesson, but it isn't discussed other than we are doing it. I know enough to try and read up on things prior to, but then there are the times that we just do whatever with no real notice. The closest bigger city to me would be Columbus Ohio. I've considered going elsewhere, but financially I can't really do the pay as you go thing. I have a loan that I have to start paying back once I'm finished. I really wish there was ground school, and CFI's who are more experienced. I would love to find an instructor who is there because they enjoy teaching and not just a stepping stone. Thanks!
 
I think the best thing you can do, April, is get finished up as quickly as you can. Use the advice earlier in this thread. I never attendecd a ground school session while pursuing my PPL and instrument rating. Instead, I used King Schools videos and took the written tests. Passed both on the first attemp. My CFI was great and was teaching because he liked it. Usually, we discussed what we were going to do that day before I preflighted the airplane, then talked about it a few minutes after we landed and tied down. Not really ground school though. I love flying and I spent a LOT of time between lessons reading both on the internet and hard copy books. You can do this.
 
April Evans said:
My goal is to make a career out of it...maybe charter or even something like a Fed-ex etc.. They basically provide books but don't offer ground school. There is no real clear cut instruction. I flew day one with no ground school/discussion. I was shown how to preflight and use the check list and off we went. I am sometimes told what we are doing the next lesson, but it isn't discussed other than we are doing it. I know enough to try and read up on things prior to, but then there are the times that we just do whatever with no real notice. The closest bigger city to me would be Columbus Ohio. I've considered going elsewhere, but financially I can't really do the pay as you go thing. I have a loan that I have to start paying back once I'm finished. I really wish there was ground school, and CFI's who are more experienced. I would love to find an instructor who is there because they enjoy teaching and not just a stepping stone. Thanks!
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It sounds like you're learning in an unstructured environment, and that you're much more comfortable in a structured environment. I generally like unstructured better, but that's probably not the normal way. From the effort you're putting in, I think you'll be fine. I would suggest going through the FAA flying handbooks to the point where you understand all of it, and find videos online for the things you don't. I'd also suggest getting a test prep program for whatever device (pc/tablet) you have, for the written, if you haven't taken the written yet. I used Dauntless, but others have good things to say about the others. For me it was partly cost, I think it was well under $100 for that. When you are scoring in the 90s on it, you should be good for the test. Don't give up. Oh, and do the 99's thing...I think it's a great idea. My DPE for my PPL checkride was a member.
 
You're the paying customer. Take charge of the situation and let the school know what you expect. I think you're being taken for aerial and financial rides. If the instructors are focused on accumulating hours for an airline gig, they have a motivation to be inefficient in training you.

For the cost of a flight lesson or two, you could buy a course from King Schools or Sporty's and thereby obtain decent ground instruction. It will pay for itself several times over.

If your goal is a career as a pilot, think this thing through carefully. Loans might not be such a good idea. By the time you're finished with Private, Instrument, Commercial, and ATP you're going to be $50k in debt and you won't earn diddly in your first several years of professional flying.

If I were you (and I'm not), I'd sit down and write out a formal plan with milestones, financial options, progress checks, and exit ramps in case it isn't working out. But then, I'm a somewhat anal retentive engineer.
 
My suggestion April is to try another instructor or maybe another school. I did read that you can't afford another school. Not sure what to suggest there. Spend more time on ground school it is free for the most part other than your time. It will save you money.

I learned from 5 different instructors during my basic training. The last one was a older experienced pilot who retired from flying. He got me through, I guess I was lucky?
I was a higher time pilot, 50 to solo, about 100 to the checkride. The school I went to we had 2 hour blocks, approx 1 hour flying and 30-45 mins ground school. Was always briefed after the flight and was showed what I should study at home. Did a lot of chair flying at home, it helped me.

When I was instrument training I hit a wall with the instructor I was flying with. He quit the school before I was done, so I switched schools and found another older retired instructor who took me on. After the first flight together he said basically I was close to being ready for the check ride soon. We flew together 3-4 more times and he sent me for my check ride. Passed it first try. If I stayed at the first school I think they would have made me fly more hours before sending me for the check ride.

The flight school planes had G530 GPS in them but I was not shown how to use them until after my solo XCs. I plotted out my flight on paper with pencils and followed the sectional as I flew. That was a big confidence builder for me.

Oh look there is Dayton Ohio just like it shows on the sectional, this picture in my solo long XC.
I was terrible with my sense of direction when I started flight training, I got better with time. I couldn't maintain my heading and level flight when I took this picture. Good luck.
6-3-16%20Plane%20pictures%20032.jpg
 
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There are YouTube videos on making cross country flight plans that may help. Your instructor should have helped you make one before your first cross country. If you are close to Columbus small towns, airports, roads that intersect train tracks or power lines and lakes make good check points. Maybe you can find another pilot at your airport that you could tag along with and just try to pick out everything that is shown on the sectional as you fly over.
 
April, I've been skimming through this thread for a while as it has unfolded, complete with typical POA side kerfuffles. One thing I can't figure out is how much time you spend studying for stuff in between lessons. It's been a while, but I spent probably at least 6 hours studying for every hour flown when doing my ppl. Probably more, same for instrument. I'm just curious how much time you spend working on this out side of the cockpit.

You've soloed, so I assume you are comfortable flying, with more mental capacity for stuff like looking for other aircraft, holding course and altitude. Radio calls should be pretty routine by now. So the cross country phase has started where you get a little overwhelmed again, but it comes.

What would help me to understand what is going on is knowing what you are flying, what avionics you have, and how you are navigating or more accurately, navigated on your cross country. It's hard to get lost in an airplane now with gps and moving maps.

Also, have you taken your written? The book part of flying fills in a lot of holes in area other than actually controlling the plane, once you are ready to apply it.
 
Half Fast said:
For the cost of a flight lesson or two, you could buy a course from King Schools or Sporty's and thereby obtain decent ground instruction. It will pay for itself several times over.
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@April Evans ^^^ this cannot be stressed enough. The airplane is a horrible classroom. 300-400 spent on a good online ground school will save thousands in the air. Written test prep programs are ok, but I suggest something with a little more depth like Kings, or if you have an iPad, Jason Miller’s ground school app.
 
Unfortunately I don't have a lot of study time during the week....maybe 2 to 3 hours a night. I work full time and have a young child, and my husband works opposite shifts from mine. On weekends I can definitely get more time in. I think this has definitely slowed my progress combined with no structure, or direction. I want to continue but it is scary knowing the further i get into it, the more debt I will have. I don't give up easily and at this point I have too much invested. Thanks!
 
Figuring stuff out in the cockpit is a bad strategy at this point in your flying journey. You should have a fundamental understanding of what to do before you fly for the day, then spend your time perfecting it in the air.

An hour a night, most nights, is more than enough to work on this stuff. Make your instructor tell you what's up next, then study it. Have you taken your written yet?
 
Thanks! I will. I haven't taken the written yet, but plan on doing so in about 2 weeks.
 
PaulS said:
It's been a while, but I spent probably at least 6 hours studying for every hour flown when doing my ppl. Probably more, same for instrument. I'm just curious how much time you spend working on this out side of the cockpit.
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An excellent point. In Navy flight school I "chair flew" every single event the night before. No, it didn't take the same amount of time as the real event but I strapped the kneeboard with nav card on it on, pulled the chart and radar predictions (if needed) out and walked through the whole content of flight. It helped me (1) makes sure I had all the things I needed ready (2) ensured I understood what I was looking for at each turn point and all my intermediate checkpoints.

In private flying it's not quite as stressful and you're not being graded but it's the same process of getting from here to there.
 
RyanB said:
The conclusions that some individuals make from a statement about the ninety-nines being a female specific organization are really remarkable. If I acknowledge the fact that they’re an exclusive group of women, I’m automatically labeled a misogynist and unsupportive of women’s aviation endeavors.

Amazing. :rolleyes:
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Only by some people, and those people are usually unhappy with their lives, and just go out of their way to make a mountain out of a mole hill, because they want others to be miserable like they are.
 
Would Love an update. Hope you're still flying!
 
Hello, and thanks! I recently had carpal tunnel surgery and just flew again yesterday. Things are definitely starting to click! My instructor said that I am ready to do my cross country solo, so I am super excited for that! It is a little more daunting than my 3 takeoffs/landings solo, but excited. I do appreciate all of the advice. The fact that I am finally soloing says that it helped because I definitely did apply what was shared. Thank you!
 
Hmm, is the 3 landing solo the only solo you've done? After I soloed, I was signed off to fly to the local practice area and 2 or 3 nearby airports. I probably flew about a half dozen flights doing that before my first cross country. Seems like a good thing to do to work out the butterflies before adding the stress of finding new airports to the mix.
 
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